What do do from here?

Lisa and little

Lisa and little

Very Active Member
Hi All- first let me say how thankful i am for all of you as i could not have remained sane without you!! ok- semi sane. If you look at Littles spreadsheet, while i am getting some blues her numbers are not good. especially AM/PM PS. I know part of the issue could be the 12 hr feeding cycle but without reintroducing DRY food i cant think of a way to change that. She will eat and eat wet food as soon as i put it down and the other will overeat as well. That could be due to the fact that they were used to having dry available 24/7 and now that they don't they're afraid they wont get another meal. :( A timed feeder wont work either as i don't know who would get there first and if i did 2 feeders, i am almost certain Little would push my Molly out of the way and eat hers too) Based on all of this and my numbers, what should i do? Go up some on the dosing? perhaps change to another insulin? Break the Dry food rule and leave a limited amount out during the day? (i know they wont eat that all at once) My vet and my friend that runs a shelter both seem to think i didn't need to take away dry and at this point i am not optimistic that little will eventually get OTJ.... SO if that's the case, does it make sense to put out limited dry and adjust the insulin dose accordingly? i would just like to see her numbers more consistent and i do not know how to get there. Thank you all for any advice you have, i am truly grateful for all of you.
 
You are only two months into this!!! You have to stop expecting that this is something you can 'fix' within a few weeks. Why would you give up on the goal of remission?? The majority of cats that are going to go into remission do so within the first 6 months, but many achieve it much later than that (and you are not even halfway through the initial 6 month period!). I see lots of blues on your spreadsheet so it is not like the insulin is not having impact. The pre-shot values will take the longest to come down as those are basically Little's glucose levels after the insulin has pretty much worn off. I would not change insulin after 2 months. That is simply not enough time to evaluate whether it is the right one for Little or not. Give it a chance.

As far as the food issue, I'm sure you have read the info on catinfo.org about dry food and have seen it talked about here over and over again, so I don't see a point in beating that issue to death. Bottom line is that dry food is not good. If you decide to use it, at least make sure you have a low-carb option and limit the amount they have access to. Changing cats over from having had dry food available to having wet food available is a big transition and may require some stumbles along the way, but it is possible. If your cats had wet food available more of the time, maybe they would stop thinking they were not going to get any more food, and they would stop scarfing it all down so quickly. Maybe they would begin to deal with it just as they previously did their dry. Some people freeze portions of wet food to leave out so that the cat cannot eat it up immediately but has to wait until it thaws. So, maybe that is something you could try. If you have issues with one cat always eating all the food and not letting the other get any, maybe microchip feeders would help - each could only eat from their own bowl.
 
I had the same problem as you in a multiple cat household and I know only too well how frustrating it can get. While nothing is foolproof I did find a couple of things that helped me keep feeding under control to at least some extent when I couldn't play lunchroom monitor.
  1. Freeze food in ice cube trays and leave some out for snacking when you are not home to give multiple meals. That worked for me to an extent because my sugar cat would not eat cold food while my boys would, so I figured the boys might get to it before she found it an acceptable temperature.
  2. Find a flavour of food Little HATES but Molly thinks is great but make sure they are all acceptable for Little because this can backfire if Little suddenly changes her mind about Molly's food.
As mentioned by FurBabiesMama, there are feeders that are controlled by microchip so no pilfering by the wrong kitty is possible however they are pricey and you'd have to get one for each cat. The design is such that I often wondered if some cats would find them scary (arch over bowl for microchip detection) and not eat when they needed to.
 
FurBabiesMama said:
You are only two months into this!!! You have to stop expecting that this is something you can 'fix' within a few weeks. Why would you give up on the goal of remission?? The majority of cats that are going to go into remission do so within the first 6 months, but many achieve it much later than that (and you are not even halfway through the initial 6 month period!). I see lots of blues on your spreadsheet so it is not like the insulin is not having impact. The pre-shot values will take the longest to come down as those are basically Little's glucose levels after the insulin has pretty much worn off. I would not change insulin after 2 months. That is simply not enough time to evaluate whether it is the right one for Little or not. Give it a chance.

As far as the food issue, I'm sure you have read the info on catinfo.org about dry food and have seen it talked about here over and over again, so I don't see a point in beating that issue to death. Bottom line is that dry food is not good. If you decide to use it, at least make sure you have a low-carb option and limit the amount they have access to. Changing cats over from having had dry food available to having wet food available is a big transition and may require some stumbles along the way, but it is possible. If your cats had wet food available more of the time, maybe they would stop thinking they were not going to get any more food, and they would stop scarfing it all down so quickly. Maybe they would begin to deal with it just as they previously did their dry. Some people freeze portions of wet food to leave out so that the cat cannot eat it up immediately but has to wait until it thaws. So, maybe that is something you could try. If you have issues with one cat always eating all the food and not letting the other get any, maybe microchip feeders would help - each could only eat from their own bowl.
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I have not given up I am just going by what the vet is saying... he wants to keep changing her dose and want me to go up in bigger increments that I should. I guess I am worried that the AM and PM spikes are detrimental making for big discrepancies in highs and lows. I don’t know how that effects her long term. Is it your opinion to hold my current dose longer based on numbers I am getting?
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I had the same problem as you in a multiple cat household and I know only too well how frustrating it can get. While nothing is foolproof I did find a couple of things that helped me keep feeding under control to at least some extent when I couldn't play lunchroom monitor.
  1. Freeze food in ice cube trays and leave some out for snacking when you are not home to give multiple meals. That worked for me to an extent because my sugar cat would not eat cold food while my boys would, so I figured the boys might get to it before she found it an acceptable temperature.
  2. Find a flavour of food Little HATES but Molly thinks is great but make sure they are all acceptable for Little because this can backfire if Little suddenly changes her mind about Molly's food.
As mentioned by FurBabiesMama, there are feeders that are controlled by microchip so no pilfering by the wrong kitty is possible however they are pricey and you'd have to get one for each cat. The design is such that I often wondered if some cats would find them scary (arch over bowl for microchip detection) and not eat when they needed to.
Click to expand...
Even that wouldn’t work here as little will go over to Molly’s bowl and molly walks off and let’s her have it
 
Lisa and little said:
Even that wouldn’t work here as little will go over to Molly’s bowl and molly walks off and let’s her have it
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That's is precisely what happens in my house. My extra sweet goes over to her brother's bowl and he immediately retreats and let's her have it. That is why I used the "cold" food and flavours she didn't like, to try to keep that "bullying" to a minimum.
 
Lisa and little said:
I have not given up I am just going by what the vet is saying... he wants to keep changing her dose and want me to go up in bigger increments that I should. I guess I am worried that the AM and PM spikes are detrimental making for big discrepancies in highs and lows. I don’t know how that effects her long term. Is it your opinion to hold my current dose longer based on numbers I am getting?
Click to expand...

I think that I would probably go ahead and up the dose, but I would be going up in tiny increments. You are at 2.75, so, I would go to a 'skinny' 3 rather than all the way to 3. I know that may seem crazy, but with Mia, I have found that doing it that way has helped smooth things out. Like you, I had the issue of having higher numbers than I wanted, but when I would increase, she would be prone to a sudden drop here and there. So, I had to very slowly slide her dose up, allowing 3 or 4 days at each dose for her to adjust. I also had to start factoring in food - I know, I know, you are tired of me always going back to that :oops:, but I know it makes a difference with Mia, and I think it might with Little.

All of this really is a lot of trial and error. Don't feel like that is unique to you. We all have to try a little of this and try a little of that and learn along the way what works and what doesn't.
 
what if you had two feeders in different rooms, or on the opposite side of the room? Your cat can't be in two places at once. Or you can do the microchip feeders... ask Santa for them. ;) The reason your vet is not optimistic about remission is because hes ok with suggesting dry food and so probably few of his patients' cats' get there. It's very possible. My cat was in remission for a year. She was on insulin for four months, but only started getting great numbers the last four weeks before remission. Ah... the good old days. lol I put my cat's food in an automatic feeder. She gets breakfast at 5:30 am, and at noon it goes to the next section for another meal. I have been sticking an ice cube in it to keep it fresh.
 
FurBabiesMama said:
I think that I would probably go ahead and up the dose, but I would be going up in tiny increments. You are at 2.75, so, I would go to a 'skinny' 3 rather than all the way to 3. I know that may seem crazy, but with Mia, I have found that doing it that way has helped smooth things out. Like you, I had the issue of having higher numbers than I wanted, but when I would increase, she would be prone to a sudden drop here and there. So, I had to very slowly slide her dose up, allowing 3 or 4 days at each dose for her to adjust. I also had to start factoring in food - I know, I know, you are tired of me always going back to that :oops:, but I know it makes a difference with Mia, and I think it might with Little.

All of this really is a lot of trial and error. Don't feel like that is unique to you. We all have to try a little of this and try a little of that and learn along the way what works and what doesn't.
Click to expand...
She has been in 2.75 for 9 days. I may wait to go up as I usually see that big am drop 4-5 days after a dose change and I will have a pet sitter that day next week... thank you all for your advice and kind re assurment. It helps so very much
 
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