Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
When you get a chance, add EST to your signature. That will help peeps here .
11/15 ASAP...Dosage advice,Read current thread below
- Thread starter Debra and Yoyo
- Start date
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
Hi Debra,
You've gotten lots of good advice from so many people here. You are definitely in good hands. I don't feel comfortable giving dosing advice, but I did want to share my experience with you.
My vet wanted me to start Bailey on 1 unit twice a day. I was scared, so I just did it once a day. Then I found this forum and got advice from all of these wonderful people. I started giving her .5 units twice a day.
One of the things that helped me in the beginning was a better understanding of the depot. Every time you give Yoyo a shot, part of that insulin goes to work in that cycle to lower the BG. The other part goes into the depot, which is kind of like a bucket to hold the extra insulin for when Yoyo needs it. If you keep skipping shots, the depot can't get filled and Yoyo's numbers will be erratic. Consistency is very important so insulin twice a day at the same time every day will go a long way towards seeing regular numbers. At the same time, I expect we aren't really seeing what Yoyo will do at 1 unit because the depot hasn't had a chance to fill so it's possible that .5 could be a better starting point, as long as you don't skip.
Whatever you decide to do, don't worry. I'm a testaholic so I am up with Bailey through the night. I will be available tonight for support and advice, and to seek out help from the more knowledgeable folks if Yoyo decides to get too adventurous.
Thank you sooooo much for the kind and educated words. I am crying because I am so upset but your words have brought such comfort to me that I can't thank you enough. G-d Bless You! I was told to start with 2 units and I was not at all comfortable with that amount. I started with 1 unit yesterday and I was so scared as I didn't know what to expect. I was not informed of the amount that Yoyo could or would drop. The vet wasn't concerned when I called, BUT TO ME THIS IS ALL NEW AND SCARY. I feel my cats' life is in my hands. So last night I did not give insulin out of fear that he would drop during the night as his PMPS number was much lower than his AMPS. But this morning I did give Yoyo 1 unit as directed by my vet, and my vet did say that I could give him .5 units at night if I felt more comfortable. Well,I also feel more comfortable giving Yoyo .5 units twice a day. I like the Start Low, Go Slow method. I feel more in control and the insulin can always be ajusted to how Yoyo reacts to it.
Reading your thread to me was like someone actually heard me and understands what I am going through with the amount of units to give Yoyo.
I will give Yoyo .5 units tomorrow morning also, not 1 unit.
I need to check Yoyo's +1 as this is his initial night insulin and I want to be on top of it.
I will write you soon with his updates.
Many thanks again!!!!!!!!!!!
You are our Angel
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
I gave Yoyo his insulin at 7:40 pm
I don't understand by adding EST to my signature, please explain.
And many thanks for checking back on Yo and me. It means so much!
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
Does +1 mean after 1 hour? For example, I gave Yoyo his insulin at 7:40pm, so I should check between 8:41pm to 9:40 to be in the +1 category??
LizzieInTexas
Member Since 2016
I hope this helps. Based on your info.. and your time
PMPS (PM=evening, PS=Pre-shot) 7:40pm (tonight)
+1 Will be 8:40pm
+2 9:40pm
+4 11:40pm
+8 3:30am
+11 7:40am (tomorrow morning)
Tomorrow 11/16 (new thread)
AMPS 8:40am
Here is the info for Hills a/d --->click here
PMPS (PM=evening, PS=Pre-shot) 7:40pm (tonight)
+1 Will be 8:40pm
+2 9:40pm
+4 11:40pm
+8 3:30am
+11 7:40am (tomorrow morning)
Tomorrow 11/16 (new thread)
AMPS 8:40am
Here is the info for Hills a/d --->click here
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
@LizzieInTexas explained it perfectly.
Let's see what Yoyo does tonight. Looking forward to seeing Yoyo's +1 and +2.
I'm so glad my words helped, but I have to admit that I shared my story because your story reminded me of how I felt when I first started. I went through the same emotions with one exception. I have a phenomenal vet who actually gave me a printout introducing me to FDMB and supports home testing. It may be time consuming, but it may be worth it for you to try to find a more supportive vet.
We've got you covered on here. You are not alone.
Lots more hugs sending you way
Let's see what Yoyo does tonight. Looking forward to seeing Yoyo's +1 and +2.
I'm so glad my words helped, but I have to admit that I shared my story because your story reminded me of how I felt when I first started. I went through the same emotions with one exception. I have a phenomenal vet who actually gave me a printout introducing me to FDMB and supports home testing. It may be time consuming, but it may be worth it for you to try to find a more supportive vet.
We've got you covered on here. You are not alone.
Lots more hugs sending you way
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
Here's what I see so far:
PMPS 223
+1 237
Can you tell me what you have fed so far? It is important to steer Yoyo along.
Her +1 is not much higher than her PMPS. There is usually a food bump at +1, but it's possible Yoyo will be a small food bump kind of cat.
PMPS 223
+1 237
Can you tell me what you have fed so far? It is important to steer Yoyo along.
Her +1 is not much higher than her PMPS. There is usually a food bump at +1, but it's possible Yoyo will be a small food bump kind of cat.
Veronica & Babu-chiri
Member Since 2016
It's OK if you feel more comfortable starting at 0.5units but I think that now you need try and keep that dose both Am and PM for a few days to give his body time to get used to the insulin and form the depot consistency is important
I'll be around still for a while in case you need something
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
Agreed. This is very important.
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
Debra, can you tell me what you have fed so far?
This morning you feed at AMPS and +3. Would be good to feed sooner than +3 to keep Yoyo from going too low. That's what we mean by steering.
This morning you feed at AMPS and +3. Would be good to feed sooner than +3 to keep Yoyo from going too low. That's what we mean by steering.
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
Here's what I see so far:
PMPS 223
+1 237
+2 234
Can you tell me what you have fed so far? It is important to steer Yoyo along.
Yoyo is not showing much of a food bump so I feel he could drop substantially. I hope you are feeding during this time.
PMPS 223
+1 237
+2 234
Can you tell me what you have fed so far? It is important to steer Yoyo along.
Yoyo is not showing much of a food bump so I feel he could drop substantially. I hope you are feeding during this time.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
I feed Yoyo around every two-three hours. He is not always hungry. He is very finicky. Last feeding was at 7:15, it's around time for him to eat again.
It was hard measuring .5 units. To be honest, I am not sure if he even got any of the dose. I thought 1 unit was hard to read on the syringe. .5 is worse, it looks like it is sitting on the zero line. I think I will use my other syringes without the 1/2 unit markings as it seems easier to see and perhaps this way Yo will get something more than I gave him tonight, if he even got anything!
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
So far it's looking like a flat cycle. Could you get another test in before you go to bed? And if you happen to awaken tonight to go to the bathroom, grab another test.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
I'll go feed now...be back soon
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
No need to feed a lot. You don't want him to get full. Maybe a teaspoon or two.
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
@Bobbie And Bubba to the rescue!
Bobbie knows more than me so definitely follow her advice.
Thanks Bobbie!
Bobbie knows more than me so definitely follow her advice.
Thanks Bobbie!
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
It's important to not feed the kitties within two hours of Test, Feed, Shoot (T/F/S) You don't want the pre shot number to be food induced. So, keep that in mind for the next shot time. The test, feed, and shoot is all within 10- 15 minutes depending on how fast or slow your cat eats.
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
In the event that this cycle turns out to be a flat yellow cycle, that can sometimes predict a more active cycle in the next cycle or two. So keep that in mind.
The nadir, or the lowest point in the cycle is usually between +4 and +7 for most kitties unless they are a early nadir kitty or a late nadir kitty. It's hard to know just yet where Yoyo will be this new in the game.
The nadir, or the lowest point in the cycle is usually between +4 and +7 for most kitties unless they are a early nadir kitty or a late nadir kitty. It's hard to know just yet where Yoyo will be this new in the game.
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
@Rosie & Bailey , thanks for peaking in on Debra and Yoyo, I am headed to bed. It looks like this is a nice gentle surf tonight, but that said, I would still try to get a test somewhere between +4 and +7. If it is still hanging in the yellow and or high blues , you could probably call it a night.
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
@Bobbie And Bubba Thanks for stepping in and helping! I'm sure Debra will be happy to hear she can sleep.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
Ok....Yoyo ate 1/2 can of fancy feast at 10:20pm.His +3 = 189.......so I guess he got some of the small .5 dosage into him.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
Thank you for the information. Greatly appreciated!
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
@Bobbie And Bubba would know more, but that could some of the depot starting to build from this morning. As a fairly new member, it's hard for me to determine the difference.
Would this be an accurate summary of the PMPS cycle so far?
PMPS 223. Fed 1/2 can FF LC
+1 237
+2 234
+3 189, Fed 1/2 can FF LC
It is important to get a test between +4 and +7. Do you want to just stay up and get the +4, or do you prefer to go for another time?
If you plan on testing again during the night, here's something I learned the hard way. Even if you are a light sleeper, consider putting an alarm clock out of arm's reach so you don't just snooze the alarm off. I'm a very light sleeper, but I found that the stress of worrying about Bailey tired me out to the point that I ignored the alarm. Bailey is clearly fine, but I felt so bad at the time.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
I'm sorry I do not give dose advice. I leave that to the people that have been doing it for many years. But I can tell you that my cat Ravan is a BIG bouncer He can go from over 400 to 40 in several hours. Over time He's gotten better But he still drops sometimes.
Remember Every Cat is Different. Some never drop that low. When I first started I thought I Can't do this! (i'm 74 yrs old) I thought how can I get up in the night & test him I need to sleep! But I realized very quickly that if I wanted to Help my Ravan it was necessary.
There are nights that I'm up many times to test him. The only way to get him regulated Or even into remission is to get him into the green numbers. I'm committed to do whatever it takes to help him.
That's why I keep advising you to learn how the insulin works. I've given him his shot when his BG was 54 & his Nadir (the lowest reading in a cycle (12 hrs) went down to 83 6 hours later.83 is good not scary at all!
Lantus Insulin works slowly. It's scary at first but if you do a lot of testing & fill up the spaces on Yoyo's SS (not all at once but a little at a time, like a puzzle) you'll be able to look at it & see how the insulin is affecting her BG.
I know it sounds frightening but if you have the high carb food & some honey or Karo it will be OK . If you look at Ravan's SS you'll see that he's gone down even to 30's. I've never had a problem bringing his BG up with food. I've never even resorted to giving him Honey.
I give a spoon of MED OR high carb food & retest in 30 mins. It has always come up.
The green is GOOD! The high numbers in the Pink & red are not good for kitties body. My Ravan had high BG for months & now he was recently diagnosed with Kidney Disease. I'm convinced it's from him being in the High BG for too long.
Right now put the question ? on your post & ask for dose advice. You always need to test at amps & pmps to make sure Yoyo is in a safe number If you were told to shoot 1 unit then you need to listen to that advice. I do know it's not good to change the dose from one shot to the next.
It messes with the insulin depot. See what you are advised to do. But remember you do need to start testing at least a few times during the night.
It takes time to get comfortable with all this. But you are in the Right place to get help! Take a few deep breaths & remind yourself You can do this. I believe I heard there are 11,000 people from all over the world,of all ages registered to this web site.
You can handle it! You've got a BUNCH of caring people to help!
Thank you for your caring words! I am trying to stick to .5 units 2 x day as in the Start Slow Go Slow method.
Tonight is the first night that Yoyo got his PM insulin shot.
It's gonna be a long night, but I will do anything I can for Yoyo.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
Oh...I am up for the duration. Your PMPS cycle for Yo is accurate at this time.
I have 3 dogs who also need my attention as two of them have been diagnosed with heart conditions. So I need to give one of my doggies her heart medicine at midnight.
I have been getting very little sleep. Worrying is a terrible thing. I wake up in a panic and think of everything going on. But hopefully we will get thru this with positive results.
I'll post results for +4 in about a half hour.
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
You have a lot on your hands.
Ok. I'll keep an eye out for your +4.
If you see my ss, you'll see I also don't get much sleep. Not good, I know. I'm a worry wart. What can I say?
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
His +4 went up to 249You have a lot on your hands.
Ok. I'll keep an eye out for your +4.
If you see my ss, you'll see I also don't get much sleep. Not good, I know. I'm a worry wart. What can I say?
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
Ah, maybe this is his food jump. How much do you normally feed him? Did he get the bulk of his food for this cycle already?
I was just preparing a message about how food timing affects BG. Crazy coincidence.
Here's what I had.
Here's a tidbit for you to consider, since you're already up
Feed the bulk of Yoyo's food early in the cycle.
Here's a quote from Wendy on why:
Bailey get's the bulk of her food before +7 for this reason.
I was just preparing a message about how food timing affects BG. Crazy coincidence.
Here's what I had.
Here's a tidbit for you to consider, since you're already up
Feed the bulk of Yoyo's food early in the cycle.
Here's a quote from Wendy on why:
Bailey get's the bulk of her food before +7 for this reason.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
Ah, maybe this is his food jump. How much do you normally feed him? Did he get the bulk of his food for this cycle already?
I was just preparing a message about how food timing affects BG. Crazy coincidence.
Here's what I had.
Here's a tidbit for you to consider, since you're already up
Feed the bulk of Yoyo's food early in the cycle.
Here's a quote from Wendy on why:
Bailey get's the bulk of her food before +7 for this reason.
I fed Yoyo at 10:20 (+3) and he ate half a can of fancy feast. Isn't that considered early in the cycle?
Throughout the day I always feed him every 2-3 hours and he usually eats about 1/2 can of fancy feast. He has lost weight and I am trying to get him to gain it back. He eats about 3-4 cans of fancy feast a day.
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
Yes, that is early in the cycle. Just trying to share information that i've learned the past few months.
Doesn't look he Yoyo plans to do a sudden drop since he is going back up, but we can continue to watch him until at least +7 since +4 through +7 is typical nadir.
I suspect he may go a bit higher than he did last night because he is being given .5 dose instead of 1 unit dose.
PMPS 223. Fed 1/2 can FF LC
+1 237
+2 234
+3 189, Fed 1/2 can FF LC
+4 249
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
I know he didn't get the right dose of insulin. It was very hard to line up the line with the 1/2 unit mark. It was so close to the zero line. Tomorrow I am going to use a suringe without the 1/2 marks, it looks like I can go inbetween 1 unit and zero unit easier than what I used tonight. I'm surprised he went down at all.
I thank you for being here with me.
Is it ok to feed him now or will his levels get higher?
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
So many people have kept me company. I'm glad to pass it forward, and one day, you probably will too.
Yes, you should feed him. Earlier is better than later, but of course you have to let him guide you. Plenty of people feed later in the cycle simply because the cat gets hungry and irritable.
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
Oh my goodness, microdosing drives me crazy. i am learning so much about it.
Have you seen the microdosing sticky? It should help with dosing.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/syringe-insulin-info-handling-drawing-fine-doses.151/
I was also recently made aware that not all syringes are the same within a package, and that will affect consistency in dosing. Here's what I learned.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
I wanted to ask you how you dose .1 and .25? Tonight when I tried using the half marker on the Ulti Care syringe it WAS TERRIBLE. When I got to the 1/2 Unit marker it was like being on zero. That is why I really don't think Yoyo got anything tonight or maybe a smidgen. I really think he would have gone down lower, not much lower but he would have surfed a liitle instead of going right back up into the 200's.
I also have BD syringes which seem better than the ulti-care ones
But how do you give Bailey .1? Is that under the microdosing sticky that you are referring to? Special Syringe?
Please explain when you have the time. I know it is late now and I believe you are on my time zone, I see Pennsylania under your signature. Any snow?
Again, thank you for being here with me.
Yoyo will probably be high in the AMPS but I will stick with .5 units and see how he drops compared to the 1 unit. At least at night time I won't be so scared that he will drop quickly.
I don't think I have to do any more BG tests tonight. Do you? He seems to be rising.
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
Yes, that sticky explains getting those in between doses that don't line up with the lines on the syringe and the fine dosing. A lot of people use the digital calipers mentioned in the sticky, but I struggled to see it so I actually use my kids' old microscope to be able to see the syringe more clearly. Having the exact right amount is not what is most important, though. Consistency is the most important part. It is important to give the same dose twice a day to help build up that depot. I can get into more details another time. Plus, I will share with you a post I received from another member regarding the printable ruler for BG syringes. That could probably help.
Yoyo does seem to be rising, but you can do a final test for the night, just so we can get an idea where he is. I wouldn't expect him to drop to a dangerous level at this point. There are some cats who will nadir as late as +11 so it's good to get that number if possible, but Yoyo probably would have been droppingif he was going to do that.
Yes. Maybe 6-8 inches so far.
I dislike snow very much.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
Yes, that sticky explains getting those in between doses that don't line up with the lines on the syringe and the fine dosing. A lot of people use the digital calipers mentioned in the sticky, but I struggled to see it so I actually use my kids' old microscope to be able to see the syringe more clearly. Having the exact right amount is not what is most important, though. Consistency is the most important part. It is important to give the same dose twice a day to help build up that depot. I can get into more details another time. Plus, I will share with you a post I received from another member regarding the printable ruler for BG syringes. That could probably help.
Yoyo does seem to be rising, but you can do a final test for the night, just so we can get an idea where he is. I wouldn't expect him to drop to a dangerous level at this point. There are some cats who will nadir as late as +11 so it's good to get that number if possible, but Yoyo probably would have been droppingif he was going to do that.
Yes. Maybe 6-8 inches so far.
Enjoy the snow, I miss it. I'm from NJ and moved to Florida 33 years ago! Wow, a long time ago...getting old!
I feel bad for Yo's ears. I've been taking blood over and over. He is such a good boy, he lets me do it and I feel so bad. Ok, one more test, probably be in the high 300's and he just finished eating again. Hungry boy!
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
If he ate, you can probably skip the test.
Remember to not feed for two hours before tomorrow morning's test so that we are not getting a number influenced by food.
I'll check on you in the morning, and I'll find you the info for the BD ruler.
Also, remember to start a new thread for the day.
Sweet dreams. Maybe you can dream about snowmen, and I can dream about the beach.
Remember to not feed for two hours before tomorrow morning's test so that we are not getting a number influenced by food.
I'll check on you in the morning, and I'll find you the info for the BD ruler.
Also, remember to start a new thread for the day.
Sweet dreams. Maybe you can dream about snowmen, and I can dream about the beach.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
If he ate, you can probably skip the test.
Remember to not feed for two hours before tomorrow morning's test so that we are not getting a number influenced by food.
I'll check on you in the morning, and I'll find you the info for the BD ruler.
Also, remember to start a new thread for the day.
Sweet dreams. Maybe you can dream about snowmen, and I can dream about the beach.
I just read what you wrote about skipping the test....oops too late....he is at 306.
The new thread should list Date, AMPS and +1 etc.....right?
Some how my thread from 11/14 was at the top today and my thread from today(11/15) got down to the bottom. I didn't know how to get the correct attention with the other thread at the top. So I rewrote the TITLE. I'm trying, but some things are confusing......enjoy the snow and I'll be in touch with you tomorrow.
Again, thank you for your time and caring.
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
Yes. you can start with date and amps, then update throughout the day.
The threads move up whenever someone comments on them. If you need advice, you should use the question mark preview in the title because that's what everyone looks for. Just clear the question mark once someone starts to work with you.
It's a lot. You are taking in sooo much, but it will be very rewarding when you see Yoyo's numbers dropping. We had three cats currently in the process of getting OTJ, off the juice (insulin). They inspire us because we all hope one day that will be us with our little furry baby.
Hugs for you and Yoyo. It's been a long day for you.
Veronica & Babu-chiri
Member Since 2016
You did an excellent job today try and get some rest.
Remember you are going to try and keep the 0.5 units for 7days because you are starting with the insulin, he will probably need you to raise the dose a bit but that will depend on how he does for the next 6 days.
This is a photo of 0.5 units on a BD syringe hope it helps you a bit .
It is true that sometimes the markings on the syringes can vary a bit so I measured from the top of the syringe not from the zero line the important thing is that you dose the same every shoot
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
Great photos @Veronica & Babu-chiri
Debra,
Here is the info on the ruler for the BD syringe. You can use it as a guide since the syringes are not always printed accurately. Since you would be using it for dosing, it is crucial that you print it out on A4 paper. Most of the caregivers (CG) on here use the calipers for fine dosing. They will be the most precise. That info is in the fine dosing link.
Once you create today's thread, we can start communicating on there.
Debra,
Here is the info on the ruler for the BD syringe. You can use it as a guide since the syringes are not always printed accurately. Since you would be using it for dosing, it is crucial that you print it out on A4 paper. Most of the caregivers (CG) on here use the calipers for fine dosing. They will be the most precise. That info is in the fine dosing link.
Once you create today's thread, we can start communicating on there.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
Thank you for sending the dosing info.
I am so nervous, now his reading is +1 440. I haven't taken +1 readings before but I don't think it should be higher than AMPS value. Again, the .5 is so small, I don't know if he is getting the dosage at all. Maybe I'm giving him air bubbles. I am shaking because I am so frusrated with ME.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
Thank you! The photos are GREAT! When I lined up the 1/2 unit, I went on the line. I see the plunger goes just under the line.
Rosie & Bailey
Member Since 2018
Debra, can you edit the title on this post and remove the question mark. That way everyone knows that your question was answered.
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
When I load my syringes, I use 3.0 readers from the drug store and I load it under a little lamp on my counter and after I load I also use a magnifying glass and make sure it's where it needs to be and that there are air bubbles.
As far as the +1 , it looks like a food bump to me. Some kitties can as much a s 50 point hike at the +1 from a food bump. See how he is all ready coming down at +2 which is when Lantus onsets.
If the syringe markings are accurate, then the plunger would be even with the zero line. Many of us use calipers for accuracy as most syringe markings are off and can be off as much as .25 of a unit.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
Too bad syringes aren't more accurate. Good idea with readers from the drug store . I have a pair, I will try it!
Paigeworthy
Member Since 2018
Bubba lost his eye to cancer and it was the hardest decision I ever made. I had anxiety attacks in the middle of the night to think of what it would be like for him with one eye. He also came through like a champ! He was outside in 10 days and brought a mouse back to me.
Bubba looks straight GANGSTA with that eyepatch, too. So.
Paigeworthy
Member Since 2018
And welcome to the board, @Debra and Yoyo 
I am new as of late October and have felt so supported here. I hope you find the same.
I am new as of late October and have felt so supported here. I hope you find the same.
Debra and Yoyo
Member Since 2018
Thank you! Everyone is WONDERFUL. They are kind and caring. And give marvelous SUPPORT!And welcome to the board, @Debra and Yoyo
I am new as of late October and have felt so supported here. I hope you find the same.