Buddy 11/12 AMPS 131; 1 hour later- 136 - Scratching my head???

Kelly and Buddy

Kelly and Buddy

Member Since 2018
I was shocked to see this low reading this morning. I waited an hour and he was still low so I did not give insulin because I'm at work all day and can't monitor. I can't imagine why we would suddenly have such a drop in his numbers (that started last night). Yesterday morning was crazy and I'm wondering if I accidentally skipped one of his feedings??? But would that have kept him low for 24 hours? Seems unlikely but nothing about this cat makes sense.

I'm just hoping he isn't sky high when I get home. It's been a long time since he has gone without a shot.

THIS is a perfect example of why giving insulin without testing is so dangerous and why I'm so thankful I found this group. Even though Buddy is consistently in the upper 200s and 300s at preshot readings, this time was different. Without that ear prick, I would have given his usual dose and who knows what would have happened. Maybe he would have been okay but I suspect there is also a good chance he might have taken a dive way too deep in the lagoon.
 
Hey Kelly, I don't think skipping one meal would have caused his sudden drops into blues. It is more likely that he is just starting to respond better to the insulin. It can take about 4 months for kitties to start to see better numbers and you are at that point.

With following SLGS you will be shooting anything over 90. I understand that this is his lowest pre shot number and you won't be home to monitor so you skipped. Better be to high for a cycle than to be too low for a minute. He will most likely be higher tonight but, you will get reined him back in again.

He is going lower at night and bouncing back up during the daytime.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey Kelly, I don't think skipping one meal would have caused his sudden drops into blues. It is more likely that he is just starting to respond better to the insulin. It can take about 4 months for kitties to start to see better numbers and you are at that point.

With following SLGS you will be shooting anything over 90. I understand that this is his lowest pre shot number and you won't be home to monitor so you skipped. Better be to high for a cycle than to be too low for a minute. He will most likely be higher tonight but, you will get reined him back in again.

He is going lower at night and bouncing back up during the daytime.
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I panicked when I saw such a low number. I went back to the SLGS page and it recommended not shooting anything under 150, so I skipped. If I had been home, I think I still would have been worried about shooting such a low number but would have done so as long as I could monitor. This is the part I dread about his numbers coming down...the panic and worry about giving insulin and leaving for such long periods of time. :(

I want his numbers lower, for sure, but with that comes a completely different set of worries. Fingers crossed he's not back in red tonight.
 
Kelly and Buddy said:
This is the part I dread about his numbers coming down...the panic and worry about giving insulin and leaving for such long periods of time. :(
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I so get it, Kelly. It is very difficult for those of you working outside the house. It does look like sometimes you are able to test in the middle of the cycle during the week. Is that hit or miss and not something you could do consistently? What time ( in + talk) do you get home ?
 
Kelly --

I hope you don't mind if I make a few observations.

Are you still giving Buddy 4 cans of Fancy Feast per day (per your spreadsheet) or 13 oz of Friskies daily and FF (per your signature)? This seems like a lot of food. A 12 lb cat would need about 233 calories per day. I'm not sure about Buddy's weight, though. 5.5 oz of Friskies turkey would be 177 calories and Fancy Feast turkey is 98 cal. per 3 oz can. Dr. Lisa's feline nutrition site give a means of calculating the number of calories per day your kitty would need. This is an approximate calculation.
Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

You may want to consider a dose increase. With any dosing strategy, you don't want to hold on to a dose that isn't consistently bringing your cat into a good range for an overly long time. Buddy has been at the 1.75u dose since October 22. Holding on to a dose that's not bringing a kitty into a consistently "good" range can cause glucose toxicity to develop -- in other words, you cat gets used to being in higher numbers. Buddy's numbers are definitely looking better but you may want to think about increasing his dose. Perhaps if you can get more AM numbers over the Thanksgiving holiday will give you a better sense of what's happening during the AM cycle. Are you able to get AM tests on the weekends/days off?

We all understand walking that fence -- you don't want your cat in high numbers but it's hard to leave for the day and not be able to monitor. You may want to look at the sticky note on using TR if you work. Granted, it's geared to the Tight Regulation Protocol but TR is a more aggressive approach to dosing than SLGS. There may be some suggestions there that are applicable to your situation.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I so get it, Kelly. It is very difficult for those of you working outside the house. It does look like sometimes you are able to test in the middle of the cycle during the week. Is that hit or miss and not something you could do consistently? What time ( in + talk) do you get home ?
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I tried to get data while we were on Fall Break although I worked several of those days. I am never able to get home during the work day to test. I live only a few minutes away but, as a teacher, I can't run home for lunch.

Not sure what you meant by (in + talk) but I leave each morning between 7:30 and 7:45. The earliest I ever get home is about 4:15 but it is typically closer to 5:00.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Kelly --

I hope you don't mind if I make a few observations.

Are you still giving Buddy 4 cans of Fancy Feast per day (per your spreadsheet) or 13 oz of Friskies daily and FF (per your signature)? This seems like a lot of food. A 12 lb cat would need about 233 calories per day. I'm not sure about Buddy's weight, though. 5.5 oz of Friskies turkey would be 177 calories and Fancy Feast turkey is 98 cal. per 3 oz can. Dr. Lisa's feline nutrition site give a means of calculating the number of calories per day your kitty would need. This is an approximate calculation.
Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

You may want to consider a dose increase. With any dosing strategy, you don't want to hold on to a dose that isn't consistently bringing your cat into a good range for an overly long time. Buddy has been at the 1.75u dose since October 22. Holding on to a dose that's not bringing a kitty into a consistently "good" range can cause glucose toxicity to develop -- in other words, you cat gets used to being in higher numbers. Buddy's numbers are definitely looking better but you may want to think about increasing his dose. Perhaps if you can get more AM numbers over the Thanksgiving holiday will give you a better sense of what's happening during the AM cycle. Are you able to get AM tests on the weekends/days off?

We all understand walking that fence -- you don't want your cat in high numbers but it's hard to leave for the day and not be able to monitor. You may want to look at the sticky note on using TR if you work. Granted, it's geared to the Tight Regulation Protocol but TR is a more aggressive approach to dosing than SLGS. There may be some suggestions there that are applicable to your situation.
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Great questions. I guess I forgot to change my spreadsheet about Buddy's food. He is currently getting 2 cans of Friskies and 2 cans of FF which is a ridiculous amount of food (and poop!!). He should be about a 12 pound cat but hovers around the 8.5 mark. His thyroid is fine (managed with meds) but his appetite is insatiable. He inhales any food given to him and is ALWAYS on the prowl for anything to eat. Because of this, another member suggested I might increase his food (and provided the rationale) to see if it would help him put on weight and feel less hungry. Neither of those things happened; all I got was MORE POOP! :mad: . When @Bobbie And Bubba told me how much food she was feeding Bubba, I had to laugh. Bubba weighs almost twice what Buddy does and eats 1/2 as much food.

In an earlier post, I mentioned that I would like to back off on some of his food but I don't even know how to start that. Do I just remove 1/3 can a day and watch his numbers for a day or two? I feel like I should remove the food before I increase his dose. I was hoping to hold off until Thanksgiving break to do a dose increase because I will have more time to monitor. So, I guess the real question is do I try to get his food reduced prior to Thanksgiving or use the break to reduce food and watch numbers? I think I just need to quit my job; it would make having a diabetic cat so much easier.

I would love to hear anyone's thoughts on how they think I should proceed with reducing his food AND how much I should ultimately feed him. I've looked at Dr. Lisa's calculations and know that, according to her, even one can of FF and one can of Friskies SHOULD be all he needs. (But I'm pretty sure he might sneak in my room at night and eat one of my limbs if he only got that much food, LOL). Should I let that me my goal? That would be cutting his current food intake in half. (Less poop to clean up - that would sure make me happy!).

Please, send suggestions, advice, thoughts my way!
 
Kelly and Buddy said:
I tried to get data while we were on Fall Break although I worked several of those days. I am never able to get home during the work day to test. I live only a few minutes away but, as a teacher, I can't run home for lunch.

Not sure what you meant by (in + talk) but I leave each morning between 7:30 and 7:45. The earliest I ever get home is about 4:15 but it is typically closer to 5:00.
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When I said in + time another words if you get home at 4:15 where does that correspond with Buddy's cycle, is it +9 or +10?
 
Kelly and Buddy said:
I went back to the SLGS page and it recommended not shooting anything under 150, so I skipped.
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You will see that section of SLGS is prefixed by "in the beginning"... Looks like you are 7 months past diagnosis, so I think you can move to the section of the document that starts
With experience, you may find that lowering these thresholds may work well for your cat
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;) Of course, gradually lowering that number should be done when you can monitor.

Over time and with data, you will find that when you shoot lower numbers, the entire cycle is much flatter. I loved flat blue cycles, almost as much as flat green ones. :cool:

As for food, I don't think you'd want to back off if he's not overweight or gaining weight. I presume you are weighing him periodicailly. Have you ever had his B12 or folate tested? I see a mention of possible IBD, which could mean he's not processing the nutrients from his food properly. B12 supplementation, if needed, could help with that. That is one possible answer to being starved all the time but not gaining weight.
 
I'd also talk to your vet about the amount of food that Buddy is inhaling. I'm wondering if a full thyroid panel would be informative. When was the last time his thyroid was checked? Of course, he could have a tapeworm (just kidding -- well, sort of just kidding)!!
 
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