New to this forum and new to cat diabetes

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Vets only do caninsulin no prozinc.
Also they have said once he's regulated I won't need to check his BG before insulin shots is that right?
 
Becki and sox said:
Vets only do caninsulin no prozinc.
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Prozinc has only been available in the UK for a couple of years (in the US for ages). The ISFM (International Society for Feline Medicine) recommend its use over that of Caninsulin. And the RVC's research has also found benefits in using Prozinc in that it tends to drop the blood glucose more slowly and last in the system longer. However, many UK vets are being damnably slow in adapting to these recommendations, and some will still only prescribe Caninsulin....
That said, some cats do just fine on Caninsulin, and there are certainly ways of working with it to get the best out of it. If it doesn't work for Sox, and your vet is unwilling to prescribe an alternative, you might want to consider finding a vet who will prescribe something else.

Becki and sox said:
Also they have said once he's regulated I won't need to check his BG before insulin shots is that right?
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That's hogwash. Sorry, Becki....
A cat's need for insulin can change a lot over time. They may need more, they quite often need less. And quite a number of cats will go into remission during the first few months on insulin.

Eliz
 
Thank you ill have a look at thst link.
Im already changing Sox to another vets just as I've not been overly appt with current vets. I have him booked in in on Thursday now else where so I will see how I get on there.
 
Becki @Becki and sox , you (or your vet! ;)) may be interested to see this from the ISFM guidelines (I've made some of the relevant text 'bold', and have written a couple of comments in italics):

"Clinical challenges:
Although the diagnosis of diabetes is usually straightforward, optimal management can be challenging. Clinical goals should be to limit or eliminate clinical signs of the disease using a treatment regimen suitable for the owner, and to avoid insulin-induced hypoglycaemia or other complications.
Optimising bodyweight, feeding an appropriate diet and using a longer acting insulin preparation (eg, protamine zinc insulin, insulin glargine or insulin detemir) are all factors that are likely to result in improved glycaemic control in the majority of cats." [Here the guidelines are recommending Prozinc or the 'human' insulins, but not Caninsulin]
There is also some evidence that improved glycaemic control and reversal of glucose toxicity may promote the chances of diabetic remission.
Owner considerations and owner involvement are an important aspect of management. Provided adequate support is given, and owners are able to take an active role in monitoring blood glucose concentrations in the home environment, glycaemic control may be improved." [Here they're noting the benefit of homestesting on overall control of blood glucose.]

Sorry, don't want to overload you with stuff. But, just for reference, here is the link to the ISFM consensus guidelines:
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1098612X15571880
 
I
Becki and sox said:
Thanks @Elizabeth and Bertie I'll have a read.
Feel bad moving him to another vets now but these just seem a bit better. They don't do prozinc but I'll definitely bring it up with them while I'm there.
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I've lost count of how many owners are forced to find a new vet when their existing one doesn't deliver. You need a vet with proven experience of managing FD (ask how many of their patients are in remission or are well regulated) and one who supports home testing. Nothing less will do.
 
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Becki and sox said:
Thank you ill have a look at thst link.
Im already changing Sox to another vets just as I've not been overly appt with current vets. I have him booked in in on Thursday now else where so I will see how I get on there.
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Print the content out, mark the areas you want to remember with a coloured pen and keep it with you at all times to refer to. Everything you need to know is there really.
 
Diana&Tom said:
I've lost count of how many owners are forced to find a new vet when their existing one doesn't deliver. You need a vet with proven experience of managing FD (ask how many of their patients are in remission or are well regulated)....
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Indeed, Diana. It's a real shame... And vets who really know about diabetes are pretty rare. Not everyone can find such a vet....

We went to our current vet after the vet who diagnosed Bert with diabetes suggested we have him put to sleep! :arghh:
The current vet is great with all the general stuff, and very kind. I really like and respect him. But we've still had very different views on managing Bertie's diabetes over the years, and I've had to fight for better insulin options. Thankfully, after a while, he pretty much just let me get on with it.
....When I first went to him he told me that I 'shouldn't need to hometest'. I then asked him what he found the typical lifespan of diabetic cats to be after diagnosis. He said, 'about two years is average'. .....Bertie was only eight! I got online and started learning, fast, haha! ;)
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Yeah I do find it hard to find a vet who you feel is totally reliable and one who you feel you are getting the best information from.
@Elizabeth and Bertie that's like Sox he's only 9. I've tested his brother too and my other 2 cats just to make sure their bloods are all ok. Which thankfulpy they are.
Fingers crossed I'll be more comfortable with this new vets.
If they say insulin on Thursday will we get it there and then or does it have to be ordered?
 
So as there's very little difference in bg whatever you feed, you might as well keep stocks of both and vary all the cats's diet a bit, if they all like it all. Sox seems stuck in the mid to high teens so you want to get some insulin into him asap. I should think the vet will give it to you there and then.
 
Becki and sox said:
I've tested his brother too and my other 2 cats just to make sure their bloods are all ok.
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Oh, well done!
Becki and sox said:
If they say insulin on Thursday will we get it there and then or does it have to be ordered?
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If Caninsulin, it's likely they'll have it in stock, because it's used for dogs and cats. Anything else it's likely they'd order and it would take a couple of days.
They should suggest you start on a very low dose, because Sox's numbers aren't that high. Personally, I'd be reluctant to suggest more than half a unit initially...

Becki and sox said:
BG levels today
6.50am 18.0 then fed butchers
12pm 17.6
7.10pm 15.4 then fed butchers
10.00pm 15.4
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Nice to see that little drop there. Just so wish it would come down further....

...It is interesting that the blood glucose didn't seem to rise after the Butcher's, but remained stable... What happened when you fed the other food, do you know? Just curious to know if the 'various sugars' spiked the blood glucose at all...

Eliz
 
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
Oh, well done!
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Lol it was the first thing I done after I tested Sox I was thinking best check the others make sure their ok.

Elizabeth and Bertie said:
What happened when you fed the other food, do you know?
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When I fed the sainsburys it did go up a little. Not go the numbers in front of me at the moment.
@Elizabeth and Bertie he was still 15.4 this morning. I even tested my self to make sure the reader wasn't stuck on 15.4 as that's been his last 3 readings.

He is in the vets at 4 on Thursday... Keeping fingers crossed it may go down a little more before then
 
Are these treats any good or not as the have potato starch in. And that would be carbs wouldn't it?
 

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Becki and sox said:
Are these treats any good or not as the have potato starch in. And that would be carbs wouldn't it?
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Hmmm... In a way it doesn't look toooooo bad.... It's certainly better than a lot of treats. But it doesn't say how much potato is in there, and as you say, potato is a carb source.... Pure meat or fish treats are a more reliable bet. Or little pieces of plainly cooked meat or fish. Or a tiny cube of cheese....
At this point, ahead of the vet visit, I'd be inclined to stick with the foods that are most likely to bring about the best results, to see if there's any chance at all of that blood glucose being tweaked down a bit more...
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Yeah that's what I thought. Sox does love abit of cheese.

I thought we were doing well sticking at 15.4 just got in from a later night with work and back up to 17.3 :( @ 8pm then fed the butcher's.

Tested again just at 10pm bloods 15.6 so if anything that food seems to make it lower. If that's possible.

And 13.2 this morning :nailbiting: is it going to come down more...we shall see lol
 
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Becki and sox said:
...up to 17.3 :( @ 8pm then fed the butcher's.
Tested again just at 10pm bloods 15.6 so if anything that food seems to make it lower. If that's possible.
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Ooh, that drop a couple of hours after eating is nice to see. Could be that the food stimulated the pancreas to produce a little insulin...

Becki and sox said:
And 13.2 this morning :nailbiting: is it going to come down more...we shall see lol
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That's nice to see too!
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Hello everyone, I registered here to ask a question. My cat has recently been diagnosed with diabetes, but I live in a private house and wanted to make the door for him, which is something https://www.bestadvisor.com/cat-doors And has not yet decided. The question itself is it safe to let the cat out on the street or is it still worth refusing this idea? I will be glad if someone answers
 
Hi Becki @Becki and sox
I think you have your vet visit scheduled for tomorrow? And a decision will be made about whether to start insulin?
....Just wanted to say that I've been in touch with the RVC (Royal Veterinary College) over the past week, asking some questions about UK vets prescribing insulin for diabetic cats. As you know (and as posted further up the thread) the International Society for Feline Medicine recommends longer lasting insulins for cats.
I contacted the RVC because I wanted specific info about how that 'international' recommendation translates to UK cats. The RVC replied saying, "There is no reason why Caninsulin should be prescribed first. Current guidelines for management of diabetes in cats suggest starting insulin treatment with a long-acting insulin preparation (in the UK only ProZinc is licensed)".
They went on to say that the guidelines are that new cases be prescribed longer acting insulin (Prozinc is the only such licensed veterinary insulin for cats), since this has been found to give better glycaemic control and increased chance of remission.

...Really don't want to make your life more difficult, Becki. And I know that your vet favours Caninsulin. But I couldn't 'not' give you this information...

Eliz
 
@Elizabeth and Bertie thank you for that.
We are booked in for tonight could you also recommend if there's anything we could use on Sox ears to stop them getting to sore after jabbing them?
12.9 this morning so it is slowly coming down. I'm wondering if that is butcher's making it come down at all.
And if we were to carry on with food if it would come down any more.

I did give him 3 little treats this morning we brought which I though we're ok. Then relooked at ingredients and noticed the rice and veg origin in there. Won't hurt though just giving 3 will it? :facepalm:
 
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Becki and sox said:
I did give him 3 little treats this morning we brought which I though we're ok. Then relooked at ingredients and noticed the rice and veg origin in there. Won't hurt though just giving 3 will it? :facepalm:
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Chances are it will be just fine, Becki. Will be interesting to see if they do have an effect (so much of managing feline diabetes seems to be an experiment initially!)
Becki and sox said:
12.9 this morning so it is slowly coming down. I'm wondering if that is butcher's making it come down at all.And if we were to carry on with food if it would come down any more.
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That 12.9 is nice. Still trending downward...
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Becki and sox said:
Do you think the vet will suggest insulin if the numbers are still coming down?
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Becki, it may well be that they think that 12.9 is 'borderline' for insulin (especially since it's currently trending downwards again).
Is that on a human meter? It would be a bit higher than that on the vet's meter though, as they usually use pet meters which 'read' higher and use a different scale.
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Yeah that's on my human meter. I am trying to see if I can find an alphatrak 2nd hand just as a comparison one too.
I'm going to take my meter to vets tonight to see what the difference is between mine and theirs.
 
So while at the vets my human BG meter read 16.5 and the alphatrak read 27.

Quiet a big difference I was thinking.
We've ordered prozinc and going to start on a small dose.
 
Becki and sox said:
So while at the vets my human BG meter read 16.5 and the alphatrak read 27.

Quiet a big difference I was thinking.
We've ordered prozinc and going to start on a small dose.
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Something not right there - the discrepancy between the meters shouldn't be that much! What did the vet say about that?
 
The vet didn't say much just that they rely more on the alphatrak readings.
Could there be a problem with my meter maybe?
 
Becki and sox said:
The vet didn't say much just that they rely more on the alphatrak readings.
Could there be a problem with my meter maybe?
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Possibly, or the strips. It's slightly concerning as you do want to get accurate readings if you're now going to give insulin, even a small dose. Good news about the Prozinc though, vets usually want to prescribe Caninsulin first but Prozinc is often better for cats (Caninsulin is really for dogs).
 
This explains it better than I can:

Most meters come with a vial of test solution, which is fake blood with a set amount of sugar in it. You can use the test solution to make sure your meter is working within the normal operating range. You simply take a test just like you would test your blood sugar, but instead of lancing you finger and testing your blood, you put a drop of test solution on the tip of your finger and test it.

Each vial of test strips will have a range of expected results printed on it. So long as the test you took falls within those numbers, the meter is working normally.

One important note, however, is that about half the meters available need to be coded to match each batch of test strips. This may be done with a chip that comes with the strips and needs to be plugged into the side of the meter, or by using the key pad on the meter to enter a one- or two-digit number that is printed on the vial of strips.

Many newer meters are “self coding,” but if you have a meter that requires coding and it is not properly coded, it can be off by as much as 80 percent.
 
That's what I was thinking.
The meter was one of my nans but there's no control solution in it :( What human meters does every one else use?
 
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So neither of my machines have control solution but I've tested on both machines and go near enough the same. :confused:
 

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I use the Freestyle Lite. When you tested at the vet's did you use the same drop of blood? And is there any chance their meter was calibrated for canine blood?
 
Oh one more thing, meters can have a 20% variance, which could further influence the disparity between values.
 
There is no conversion that is going to tell you what the equivalent reading would be on a human vs. pet meter. Cat blood and human blood are different and the meters are programmed to test according to the species of blood it "thinks" it's testing and this is why the human meters tend to read lower than the pet meters. Generally speaking the higher the BG the larger the difference will be between the two meters with the pet meter reading higher. At lower range BG the numbers can be significantly closer but the pet meter is often still higher. All meters in the US are allowed a 20% variance. In Canada they are allowed a 15% variance but that 15% may not apply to the pet meters on the market. To add to the conundrum, some human meters read a bit lower and some a bit higher at different BG ranges so even comparing two human meters can end up making one scratch their head. It's really best to pick a meter and stick with it.
Does that help? :)
 
@MrWorfMen's Mom my question is though how reliable will my human meter be if I'm going to be giving insulin if mine reads 16.5 while with the same blood the alphatrak reads 27.0? Thank you

Tested again this morning and back down to 12.1 so not sure how reliable it is cause if it goes by the difference we saw yesterday would it be 23.1 if we tested on alphatrak :confused:
 
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Becki and sox said:
my question is though how reliable will my human meter be if I'm going to be giving insulin if mine reads 16.5 while with the same blood the alphatrak reads 27.0? Thank you
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Becki, it took me absolutely ages to 'get my head around' the differences between human meters and pet meters, and I can remember really getting in a tizz about it at one point and posting here asking "but which one is correct?!" :confused:
...The answer is that both are correct. You're just working with a different range of numbers. The blood glucose level is what it is, the meters describe it differently; just as Centigrade and Fahrenheit are different ways of describing temperature.

The most important thing to know is what constitutes normal numbers and low numbers on whichever meter you're using.
The normal range (for non-diabetics, and cats in remission) is approximately 2.7 to 6.6 on a human meter, or 3.6 to 8.3 on an Alphatrak. Some cats will naturally run a little higher or lower than that.
Numbers below 2.7 on a human meter, or 3.6 on an Alphatrak can be considered potentially hypoglycemic for a cat on insulin.

Becki, you say you tested your other cats. What results did you get...? Those should tell you whether your meter is OK or not...

Eliz
 
Becki, we have a Prozinc subforum here where you can get specific advice on using this insulin. They're a lovely friendly bunch, and there's some experienced people there.

There are also three info documents that you may find helpful in the Prozinc forum. The first is the beginner's guide to Prozinc. The second is FDMB's basic dosing protocol for Prozinc. The third contains additional info and more advanced techniques.
BEGINNER’S GUIDE TO PROZINC/ PZI INSULIN FOR DIABETIC CATS
PROTOCOL FOR PROZINC / PZI
Advanced Information for Experienced ProZinc/PZI Users

And here's the link to the Prozinc forum so you can have a look:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
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@Elizabeth and Bertie thank you. That's good to read I think I started to panic abit last night that I wasn't going to be able to monitor him properly been as though the readings were so different.
I did test my other 3 cats and my mom's cat and they all ranged between the 2.5 to 2.7.
So I know really on my meter I want to be heading towards that way.
Insulin should be here today so I'm booked in tomorrow to learn how to administer.
Think this is gonna be quiet scary to do as most times I'll need to do it on my own due to husband doing shifts.
Is it quiet easy once you've got the hang of it?
 
Becki and sox said:
I did test my other 3 cats and my mom's cat and they all ranged between the 2.5 to 2.7.
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It's interesting that they're all in the lower end of the normal range, and it 'may' mean that your meter does read a tad on the low side. But that's much safer than reading high!

Becki and sox said:
Think this is gonna be quiet scary to do as most times I'll need to do it on my own due to husband doing shifts.
Is it quiet easy once you've got the hang of it?
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It can feel a bit scary at first. It's something new, and it's natural to feel some apprehension. Most of us have never handled a syringe before, so even that can take a few goes to get used to. (I was scared of syringes and practiced my technique on oranges, haha!)
But you will amazed how quickly this becomes completely ordinary and routine.

You're also already doing really well in that you've changed the diet and learned to hometest!
And you have a great attitude about it all. You are going to do just fine, Becki! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Elizabeth and Bertie said:
It's interesting that they're all in the lower end of the normal range, and it 'may' mean that your meter does read a tad on the low side. But that's much safer than reading high!
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Do you think I should try a different make machine as both the freestyle freedom lite and the freestyle lite both read the same so both are on the lower end?
Elizabeth and Bertie said:
But you will amazed how quickly this becomes completely ordinary and routine.
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Yes I suppose it does. The BG test scared me too at first but now I feel fine doing that.

Yes I'll be at home all weekend Ive got my appointment tomorrow morning at 11.30 to learn how to administer the insulin. Will they give him his first dose there and then? I'm off Sunday to and back at work on Monday morning.

@Elizabeth and Bertie thank you
 
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