New To The Group - Introducing Myself

Cindie

Cindie

Member Since 2018
Good Morning! I am looking forward to learning from the experienced people in this group! My cat, Gryphon was diagnosed at the end of June, and we're still struggling to get things under control. He is currently on 8 units of Lantus 2X daily, (started at 2 units and increased gradually). I am feeding Weruva canned 0% carbs, Orijen 12% carb kibble, and Orijen 0% carb freeze-dried protein treats. I can't leave food out for him because he'll eat it all at once and make himself sick, so I have an automatic feeder. I give him two large meals of canned food every day. The feeder is set up to give two small meals of kibble and Orijen protein at equal intervals between the canned meals, for a total of 6 meals each day. The kibble is providing 25% of his total calories. Gryphon has chronic pancreatitis and arthritis. He is on Gabapentin, 50 mg daily for arthritis pain, and Cerenia, 6 mg every other day to control the symptoms of pancreatitis. He was on Prednisolone, .25 mg every other day, and this was discontinued as of October 2 due to concerns that it might be contributing to his high BG. My vet is wondering about possible Acromegaly or Cushings Disease. He said Gryphon can't be tested for these diseases until he is off of Prednisolone for a period of time. I am testing BG at least 3 times daily. The results are still mostly high, and really erratic! I just completed a spreadsheet but I think I used the wrong template, or missed a step because the BGs are in mmol/L. I will go back and do it again. (I'm from Canada and using an Alphatrak2 meter.) I really appreciate any suggestions that might be helpful to Gryphon!!!
 
Welcome and congratulations on already doing so many things to help Gryphon. I love the name! There are many folks here more experienced than me, so I won't comment on dosing.

We try to stay below 10% carbs in the food we feed, and we try to eliminate all kibble if possible. If that's an option, you may see lower BG numbers from the diet change. It's important to determine Gryphon's nadir -- the lowest BG point of a cycle. That determines the best dose for him and also helps you time feedings. Your spreadsheet will help with that.

Again, welcome!
 
Hi from a fellow Canadian. We do have a acromegaly/cushings forum. There might be some info in there for you. Tagging Wendy for you. She may have some additional information on the tests and testing requirements for these two conditions. @Wendy&Neko

He looks gorgeous.
Is the pancreatitis chronic or does it seem to be controlled at the moment?

For your spreadsheet - you need to add your tests into the world tab vs. the US tab. The US tab will automatically update with the converted values.
 
Hello and welcome from a west coaster.
Cindie said:
My vet is wondering about possible Acromegaly or Cushings Disease. He said Gryphon can't be tested for these diseases until he is off of Prednisolone for a period of time.
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Not true, at least for the acromegaly. The blood is drawn and sent to MSU (Michigan State University) for the IGF-1 test. High levels of IGF-1 are indicative of acromegaly. Prednisolone has no impact on the test results. Acromegaly is caused by a benign tumour on the pituitary gland, which results in the production of excess growth hormone, which in turn elevates the IGF-1 numbers. Are you or your vet seeing any visible signs of acromegaly or Cushings? Another high dose condition we see more often is IAA or insulin auto antibodies. The blood for that test is also sent to MSU, and is a relatively cheap add on to the IGF-1 test.

A couple of suggestions for you. First, as Tracey says, put the values on the World tab, and they will auto populate the US tab, which is the values a large number of people here are used to. However, I do "read" world values, and see you got down to 4.2 (76) on the AT a couple days ago. You don't want his numbers much lower than that. 68 (3.8) on the AT is the point at which we give high carb food to bring them up. You might want to try a 7.5 unit dose. Are you using syringes with half unit marks to draw his dose?

Another thing, is it at all possible to get a test in the night time cycle? Many (probably most) cats go lower at night. We determine dose changes based on how low the dose takes the cat, so those night time tests are essential. Maybe a test just before you go to bed?

And lastly (for now ;)) getting rid of dry food if you can is really important. We had one cat here on 5.5 units of insulin, and unknown to his caregiver, was sneaking another cats dry food. She removed dry from the house, and in a very fast/scary couple of days, went off of insulin. It's not usually so dramatic, but dry does have a big impact on the amount of insulin needed.
 
Beck and Grandpa said:
Welcome and congratulations on already doing so many things to help Gryphon. I love the name! There are many folks here more experienced than me, so I won't comment on dosing.

We try to stay below 10% carbs in the food we feed, and we try to eliminate all kibble if possible. If that's an option, you may see lower BG numbers from the diet change. It's important to determine Gryphon's nadir -- the lowest BG point of a cycle. That determines the best dose for him and also helps you time feedings. Your spreadsheet will help with that.

Again, welcome!
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
Tracey&Jones said:
Hi from a fellow Canadian. We do have a acromegaly/cushings forum. There might be some info in there for you. Tagging Wendy for you. She may have some additional information on the tests and testing requirements for these two conditions. @Wendy&Neko

He looks gorgeous.
Is the pancreatitis chronic or does it seem to be controlled at the moment?

For your spreadsheet - you need to add your tests into the world tab vs. the US tab. The US tab will automatically update with the converted values.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for your suggestions! I'll do the spreadsheet again. Gryphon recently had blood work that showed that his pancreatitis is not currently active. We tried to discontinue the Prednisolone one other time and his pancreatitis flared up. This time he seems to be doing ok without it.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hello and welcome from a west coaster.

Not true, at least for the acromegaly. The blood is drawn and sent to MSU (Michigan State University) for the IGF-1 test. High levels of IGF-1 are indicative of acromegaly. Prednisolone has no impact on the test results. Acromegaly is caused by a benign tumour on the pituitary gland, which results in the production of excess growth hormone, which in turn elevates the IGF-1 numbers. Are you or your vet seeing any visible signs of acromegaly or Cushings? Another high dose condition we see more often is IAA or insulin auto antibodies. The blood for that test is also sent to MSU, and is a relatively cheap add on to the IGF-1 test.

A couple of suggestions for you. First, as Tracey says, put the values on the World tab, and they will auto populate the US tab, which is the values a large number of people here are used to. However, I do "read" world values, and see you got down to 4.2 (76) on the AT a couple days ago. You don't want his numbers much lower than that. 68 (3.8) on the AT is the point at which we give high carb food to bring them up. You might want to try a 7.5 unit dose. Are you using syringes with half unit marks to draw his dose?

Another thing, is it at all possible to get a test in the night time cycle? Many (probably most) cats go lower at night. We determine dose changes based on how low the dose takes the cat, so those night time tests are essential. Maybe a test just before you go to bed?

And lastly (for now ;)) getting rid of dry food if you can is really important. We had one cat here on 5.5 units of insulin, and unknown to his caregiver, was sneaking another cats dry food. She removed dry from the house, and in a very fast/scary couple of days, went off of insulin. It's not usually so dramatic, but dry does have a big impact on the amount of insulin needed.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for this information. I have done a bit of reading on Acromegaly and Gryphon does seem to have some of the symptoms. He has been incredibly, ravenously hungry for over a year. This started long before his FD diagnosis. He lost a bit of weight when first diagnosed with FD but gained it back and maintains his weight and appetite now. He snores loudly, and has painful joints. My vet didn't talk about testing for IAA. I will ask him to do that test as well.

Yes, it was scary to see his BG at 4.2. This is by far the lowest it has been since I started testing. I did give him a few high carb treats. By the end of the day, he was back up to 31.1 and I wondered if the treats had caused that. My syringes do have half unit marks. Yes, I will make a point of testing at night.

I have wondered if the kibble is contributing to the high BG. My vet thought it was important to feed small frequent meals throughout the day, both for stabilizing his BG and for his pancreatitis. I'm not sure how to do this without feeding dry food in the automatic feeder. I'm not always available to open a can. I do feed Orijen freeze-dried 0% carb treats, and could feed more of those to replace the kibble.
 
Cindie said:
I have wondered if the kibble is contributing to the high BG. My vet thought it was important to feed small frequent meals throughout the day, both for stabilizing his BG and for his pancreatitis. I'm not sure how to do this without feeding dry food in the automatic feeder. I'm not always available to open a can.
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Hi Cindie and welcome to you and Gryphon,
It is very easy to feed wet food in an automatic feeder. Most people here do this. Many prefer the 5-compartment, digital feeders (I think the favorite brand is PetMate). Others like the 2-compartment, mechanical feeders (with separate timers). I always preferred the CatMate 2-compartment mechanical feeder. It comes with a blue-ice block to keep the food cool in hot weather. And the compartments are big enough to hold a small glass or ceramic dish in the tray: https://www.chewy.com/cat-mate-c20-2-bowl-automatic-pet/dp/103147 Rusty (GA) ate all of his meals from this feeder (with the compartment lids open). When we were not home to put out his food, we would set the timers and close the lids. So when we were out for the day, he was totally used to his "food station".

Best of luck to you and Gryphon as you embark on the FD adventure!
 
Hello and welcome!

Eliminating dry is key to getting your kitty firmly on the road to regulation. Like Wendy said, the effect can be quite dramatic.

Over the years we have seen a number of newly diagnosed diabetic kittys who after making the transition to an all wet low carb diet no longer needed insulin.

I’m a big fan of the same feeder Ella mentioned. I could not have managed my Black Kittys diabetes without it.
 
Thanks everybody for your suggestions!! I will shop for a feeder that offers a way to keep wet food cool.

I'm curious, though - Is it the carbohydrate content of the kibble that causes problems, or is there more to it than that? I do understand that wet food is generally a healthier option for any cat. I thought that providing a small amount of kibble would be ok. My reasoning was that 75% of calories from wet food with no carbs, combined with 25% of calories from kibble with 12% carbs would add up to a total calorie intake with 3% carbs, which didn't seem too bad. The dry meals I've been feeding consist of 1/2 kibble and 1/2 Orijen freeze-dried protein with 0 carbs, so about 6% carbs combined.

Thanks again! I really appreciate the assistance!!
 
Cindie and Gryphon to the best forum on the internet! Great place to find support, advice and plain good ole common sense for treating your diabetic kitty. Don't give up! He's in the best of hands :cat: yours :cat: :bighug:
 
Sue and Luci said:
Cindie and Gryphon to the best forum on the internet! Great place to find support, advice and plain good ole common sense for treating your diabetic kitty. Don't give up! He's in the best of hands :cat: yours :cat: :bighug:
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Thank you! Yes, I'm so impressed with this forum and glad I joined! There's so much to learn, but people here have been really helpful!
 
Don't be afraid to ask questions even if you think they maybe weird. Yes there's lots to learn and someone is always able to help. I was very scared and panicky when I was starting out but as I asked weird questions I got more comfortable. I was learning about feline diabetes and learning how to use a computer at same time.The best thing I found was reading the stickies and asking questions. Be patient and read ask questions. You both will be ok.
 
Rebecca.garfie said:
Don't be afraid to ask questions even if you think they maybe weird. Yes there's lots to learn and someone is always able to help. I was very scared and panicky when I was starting out but as I asked weird questions I got more comfortable. I was learning about feline diabetes and learning how to use a computer at same time.The best thing I found was reading the stickies and asking questions. Be patient and read ask questions. You both will be ok.
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Thanks so much for the support!!!
 
Cindie said:
Is it the carbohydrate content of the kibble that causes problems
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Carbs or carbs but there are times that it seems to me the dry is worse than the wet when it comes to the absorption of those carbs. I think it has to do with what the source of the carb is....fresh liver or from grains and rice.
 
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