Question about bounces/holding doses

[Moms2Tigger&Blu]

It seems to me 7 days may sometimes be too short a time span to really see how a specific dose works. Tigger bounces so much I can't tell if he's coming up or going down. When he was on 1.5 units for 2 weeks straight I saw the most clear patterns developing. Then he hit 70, we decreased to 1.25 and at the very end of a week on that dose he hit 55. Another decrease to 1 unit which looked promising but never really brought his numbers low enough. I thought going back up to 1.25 units would . . . do better. His numbers aren't higher exactly, but his "curves" are flatter. He's just in the 300's. Barely any dips to 200's! I was not expecting that. Does any one else feel there is some benefit to holding an "okay" dose in order to see what it can really do? Tig always goes wonky or bounces after a change and I feel like we only see a few "real" cycles. That being said I have a feeling he went lower today. PMPS was 460+ - but that just makes me want to consider holding a dose even more. Any thoughts? The vet is always suggesting 2 weeks.

 

[carfurby (GA)]

bump

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

It seems to me 7 days may sometimes be too short a time span to really see how a specific dose works. Tigger bounces so much I can't tell if he's coming up or going down. When he was on 1.5 units for 2 weeks straight I saw the most clear patterns developing.

It's possible. Some cats do take a bit longer to respond to a dose. Try it if you'd like. You can always go back to what you were doing if it doesn't pan out.

When he was on 1.5 units for 2 weeks straight I saw the most clear patterns developing.

That said, I'm not seeing a two week period on 1.5 units.

• 9/3 - 9/9 (6 days or 12 cycles @ 1.5 units)
  • Tigger dropped on the 2nd cycle 1.5 unit.
    
  • There weren't any mid-cycle tests on 9/6, but it very much looks like the bounce broke and he dropped enough to cause a bounce (evidenced by the 633 at PMPS).
    
  • It then appears that bounce broke 6 cycles later on 9/9 (AM cycle).

• 9/10 - dose reduced to 1 unit (not enough insulin evidenced by the 449 @ PMPS).
  
  • The 1.5 unit dose was resumed on the PM cycle. Cycle count at 1.5u now starts over. That reduction to 1u matters. It depleted the insulin depot.

• 9/10 (PM cycle) - 9/15 (5.5 days or 11 cycles) 9/15 PM cycle - Tigger dropped to 70 @ +4.5, earning a reduction per SLGS.

Note: Your "2 weeks" of data @ 1.5u became distorted by the reduction to 1 unit.

Years ago, when we were trying to figure out how to use Lantus, we did have some kitties... we called them "late responders"... who seemed to take longer to "settle into" a dose. However, since then we've learned the faster we can return kitties to lower BG numbers, the better chance at remission. That's why we generally don't wait for kitty to "settle in to a dose" anymore.

However you proceed is up to you. There is no right or wrong answer. Sometimes deviating from the norm pays off. Other times it ends up amounting to nothing more than a waste of time. Given the circumstances I've noted above, the odds are not in favor of holding the dose for a longer period of time, but truth be told, the only one who knows what will happen for sure is Tigger... and he ain't talking!

Just my thoughts...

 

[Moms2Tigger&Blu]

Just my thoughts...

Wow, thanks, laid out all like that really makes a lot of sense. (so far it seems almost nothing about this feline diabetes business makes any sense)
I guess I got nervous thinking about going back up to 1.5 units because I hate not being able to get mid-cycle tests during the day. I hate the thought
of him going low when he's home all alone. Nothing about this is really that bad, the testing, the shots, etc, but the worrying and him not being well
regulated is soooo frustrating. Especially as he seems to be doing great otherwise - no ketones, excellent appetite, better bathroom habits. I want to
see the cold hard proof in his numbers as well. Unless he has a magically low cycle soon, I think I will be increasing this weekend as planned!

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

hate the thought
of him going low when he's home all alone.

Hey there! If you don't all ready have one, you might want to invest in an automatic feeder to program and leave food timely for Tigger while you are gone. That really helps when you have to be away from home to know that he will have some food to boost him up should he go lower.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

Wow, thanks, laid out all like that really makes a lot of sense.

You're welcome. Happy to have helped.

Unless he has a magically low cycle soon, I think I will be increasing this weekend as planned!

Since Lantus dosing is based mostly on nadirs, it's always important to learn how low a dose is dropping the cat prior to increasing the dose.

Hey there! If you don't all ready have one, you might want to invest in an automatic feeder to program and leave food timely for Tigger while you are gone. That really helps when you have to be away from home to know that he will have some food to boost him up should he go lower.

Good idea!

 

[Moms2Tigger&Blu]

Hey there! If you don't all ready have one, you might want to invest in an automatic feeder to program and leave food timely for Tigger while you are gone. That really helps when you have to be away from home to know that he will have some food to boost him up should he go lower.

We do have auto feeders but they are the ones that open at anytime to one specific cat using their microchip. Tigger's brother is a huge piggy
and if he was around when the timed feeder opened - Tig wouldn't get one bite. I just leave a can of FF in Tigger's bowl and hope he doesn't
eat it all "at the wrong time." Now if they made one that could do both . . . only open to Tigger around lunch time we'd be all set!

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

So Tigger's brother pushes him out of the way? Is it possible for the times he is in lower numbers before you leave for the day to isolate Tigger somewhere with the feeder?

 

[Moms2Tigger&Blu]

Not really, he hates being cooped up. But its okay, the microchip feeder closes when Blu moves in to eat. I just can't control WHEN Tigger eats from it. I get the feeling he sometimes eats it all too early and has nothing by 1pm/low BG time.