9/1 Jasper amps 119 +1 108 +2 99 +4 89 +5 78 +7 63 +8 90 +10 170 Follow Up

Aaron and Jasper

Aaron and Jasper

Member Since 2018
Condo:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...67-4-186-5-5-191-6-5-219.201934/#post-2246707

My current burning question is what could be the motivation behind the lack of appetite/nausea? The blood is looking (good) all considering, he's had two doses of fluids now and his pee has shown negative twice. Can I assume at all that means no pancrea/uti? He seemed to have more appetite last night. Please tell me where I'm wrong or if I've missed something.

Edit: thank you to everyone for their input and spending their time. I appreciate all of you and I don't mean to sound brazen in my posts
 
Hi Aaron, put a ? in your thread tittle, that way everyone will see you have a question. Sorry I can't help with the medical but there are those who certainly can. :bighug:
 
Hey Aaron

It helps us a lot if you can follow our posting guidelines here. The reason why we post in a specific way is we have a lot of members, the methods used in this forum are a bit more aggressive than on the Main Health forum, and there are several of us that scan through the numbers and make sure someone might need help and doesn’t realize it or someone might have questions.

For today, your title should read:
9/1 Jasper AMPS 119 +1 108 +2 99 Follow up questions

As you get more tests, you add them sequentially. Here’s a post on Making the Most of the L/B/L ISG Experience.

You could also select the “?” from the drop down menu to the left of the title as Sonia suggested as we also look for those. Once the question is answered, we appreciate you removing the ? mark and updating the title.


Aaron and Jasper said:
Condo:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...67-4-186-5-5-191-6-5-219.201934/#post-2246707

My current burning question is what could be the motivation behind the lack of appetite/nausea? The blood is looking (good) all considering, he's had two doses of fluids now and his pee has shown negative twice. Can I assume at all that means no pancrea/uti? He seemed to have more appetite last night. Please tell me where I'm wrong or if I've missed something.

Edit: thank you to everyone for their input and spending their time. I appreciate all of you and I don't mean to sound brazen in my posts
Click to expand...
We are all happy to help and don’t feel you are brazen at all....we love questions.

When you say the blood is looking good, what do you mean? Has he had any recent tests and did they do a specfPL or a snapfPL for pancreatitis? Here is a Primer on Pancreatitis that I wrote to help members whose cats have been diagnosed or have the symptoms.

Unless they did these tests, then you would not know if he had/has pancreatitis. It can take time to resolve so...if he wasn’t tested and he does have it, you would potentially see an improvement but kitty still not be eating.

Without seeing his most recent blood tests, it’s not possible for us to tell you much. Just because he has no ketones, which is a great thing, does not mean he doesn’t still have something else going on. It just means you are giving him support he needs.

There is a wealth of information and posts regarding DKA, etc that you can find the links for under the New to the Group Sticky At the top if this ISG page. It’s excellent reading....a must for all members here.

He’s looking great on this dose!!
 
Have you tested for ketones today? There's only one mention of a ketone test on your spreadsheet. If ketones are present, that might be an explanation for a poor appetite/nausea.

In addition to Marje's suggestion, I'd not change the color of your AMPS and +1 to red. My first response to seeing the color was that Jasper had bounced into the 400s. For those of us who open a spreadsheet for every cat we visit and who've been at this for some time, we look more at the pattern of colors than the actual numbers.

 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
In addition to Marje's suggestion, I'd not change the color of your AMPS and +1 to red. My first response to seeing the color was that Jasper had bounced into the 400s. For those of us who open a spreadsheet for every cat we visit and who've been at this for some time, we look more at the pattern of colors than the actual numbers.
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He didn’t do this....there is a glitch in the SS that I’m trying to fix. It’s my bad :p
 
Hi Aaron, he is liking this dose ,but that said, how much food is getting into him?

It is always troubling when kitties stop eating for us. In my experience with it, it was for either a tooth ache, but then the numbers stayed high from being in pain, or from a GI upset, diarrhea or constipation, or a mild pancreatitis flare up. How is he doing in the pooping department?

Sending you appy vines for him to start eating. Have you tired some of the things on the list to get kitty again?
This is from a thread that Jill posted on for appy help :

-sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core. * I have added Young Again Zero Carb
-making a buffet to give him choices
sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- heating food
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.
other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
- trader joe tuna for cats
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- kentucky fried chicken
- deli turkey /chicken
- plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
-canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
- chicken broth -- low sodium

Cats that are not eating much for a few days are at risk for hepatic lipidosis
Last resort to eat give Medium or the high carb, wet food

Have you ever tried Slippery Elm Bark? (SEB) It is great to coat the digestive tract and help heal any issues. There is a SEB ball you can make for nausea. I have been recently giving it to my civvie cat, Forrest. You will need to go to the health food store and get SEB if you don't all ready have it and George's Aloe Vera Juice. (AVJ)

You would mix 1/4 teaspoon of the SEB in a tea cup add 1/2 teaspoon of AVJ and mix it up. It will mix up into a ball. Let it set up for a minute and then scoop it up and put it on the roof of his mouth. He will be forced to swallow it. Do it about 30 minutes before you feed him. It takes care of the nausea and it has been working well for Forrest.
 
Beautiful cycle so far.
I'm off to catch some zzzz's almost the witching hour over here.

I just had a thought about sleeping through alarms, when I was in the thick of it with George and running on empty I was perfectly capable of setting an alarm on my mobile and sleeping through it, I would switch it off in my sleep and not even register, the only way I could gaurantee I'd not do that was by putting my mobile on the other side of the room so I would have to get up to turn off the alarm.
 
Gill & George said:
Beautiful cycle so far.
I'm off to catch some zzzz's almost the witching hour over here.

I just had a thought about sleeping through alarms, when I was in the thick of it with George and running on empty I was perfectly capable of setting an alarm on my mobile and sleeping through it, I would switch it off in my sleep and not even register, the only way I could gaurantee I'd not do that was by putting my mobile on the other side of the room so I would have to get up to turn off the alarm.
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Hi Gill!!
 
Gill & George said:
Beautiful cycle so far.
I'm off to catch some zzzz's almost the witching hour over here.

I just had a thought about sleeping through alarms, when I was in the thick of it with George and running on empty I was perfectly capable of setting an alarm on my mobile and sleeping through it, I would switch it off in my sleep and not even register, the only way I could gaurantee I'd not do that was by putting my mobile on the other side of the room so I would have to get up to turn off the alarm.
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Thanks for continuing to check in, my friend. Sweet dreams. Snuggles to BFG and the rest of the crew.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Thanks for continuing to check in, my friend. Sweet dreams. Snuggles to BFG and the rest of the crew.
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My pleasure I will stop by in the morning, before I get embroiled with cooking and baking for the arrivals.

Head bumps right back at ya Auntie Marje:cat::cat::cat:
Da kittens are keepin me on my toes, but Izz tell thems whose da boss
Dep BFG

Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hi Gill!!
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Hi Bobbie:kiss::bighug:
Haven't had a chance to stop by bubba's condo, but I think of you often. Hope u r keeping well.
 
Okay everyone has said great cycle but he seems really low. Is this supposed to be happening (this time) or is it because of food? He's eaten little snackings of his dry food bowl but never a lot.

Bobbie, he's doing okay in the pooping department. Two, nice size. Thank you for the link, I've tried a couple. I might have to try that Seb ball
 
Aaron and Jasper said:
Okay everyone has said great cycle but he seems really low. Is this supposed to be happening (this time) or is it because of food? He's eaten little snackings of his dry food bowl but never a lot.

Bobbie, he's doing okay in the pooping department. Two, nice size. Thank you for the link, I've tried a couple. I might have to try that Seb ball
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Hi Aaron, If he is not eating that will contribute to the lower numbers. That said, the 63 is a nice nadir for this time in the cycle which is around the usual nadir at +4 - +7. He should start to come up now. I would get another test in 1 hour from the 63 to make sure he is doing okay. If he is upwards, you could probably call it a night.
 
90! *Sigh of relief*
As soon as I wrote it down (have a physical track as well) it makes so much sense. Awesome. And in call it a night you mean for testing? Im a little late for his fluids but still want to do them, is it a bad time at all? Fluids, normal pmps and subsequent shot, and attempting feeding throughout is good?
 
Aaron and Jasper said:
90! *Sigh of relief*
As soon as I wrote it down (have a physical track as well) it makes so much sense. Awesome. And in call it a night you mean for testing? Im a little late for his fluids but still want to do them, is it a bad time at all? Fluids, normal pmps and subsequent shot, and attempting feeding throughout is good?
Click to expand...
Each day you’ve given him fluids late in the cycle, he’s come back down. We don’t know if he’s coming back down because he’s getting a second dip or the fluids are affecting him. However, because he’s not going back up before he onsets at +2, as you would expect, then it’s either the fluids or he’s getting some really nice carryover and overlap on this dose.

It does look to me like the dose is giving him really nice duration but the way to know is to not give fluids until later but if it is the fluids, you could be working lower numbers all evening.
 
I got thrown kind of off track again, the fluids would be almost 4 hours off. I heard everything you said, should I leave it out tonight? To see if it is carryover?
 
Aaron and Jasper said:
I got thrown kind of off track again, the fluids would be almost 4 hours off. I heard everything you said, should I leave it out tonight? To see if it is carryover?
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If you think he’s doing ok and he’s got negative ketones, you could skip a night just to see. Any extra oral fluids you could get in him would help.
 
Bg almost doubled in two hours? Was a rise expected? Id assume the end of the cycle? And how far reasonably will it go up tonight? I should also note two full cocktail shrimp he ate at +9. Pmps and shoot in one hour
 
Interesting.....no fluids and he loses duration. Yes, one would expect a rise in BG as the insulin wanes close to +12.

It’s hard to say how far it might go up tonight. It’s very possible that as soon as he onsets, he will come back down. Or he could continue to climb. Only Jasper knows.

I’m glad he ate. I’ll check in on you all until I go to bed in about three hours.
 
Better.... so he’s onset. He’s dropped a lot and we typically say if the +2 is similar to or less than the P S, it will potentially be an active cycle.

I doubt he will drop too much more but if you want to set an alarm for +5 you could.

Hope you get some rest.
 
Aaron and Jasper said:
What do you mean "active" I've seen it a lot?
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It's when we see a curve. So we see BG drop at onset, BG drops through to nadir before coming back up again.

Here's an example of an active (not necessarily typical) cycle, taken from the new to the group sticky.

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number. Onset begins around +2 for most cats. You'll probably see an active cycle if the +2 is the same/similar OR lower than the preshot number. Continue testing!
+3 - Often lower than the PreShot number.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle. NOTE: ECID. Not every cat has a mid-cycle nadir. Adjust the hours on this example to fit your cat.)
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Basaglar/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
+12 - PreShot number.

In a bounce cycle by contrast we see the numbers remain flat, though they could bobble about a bit. With his numbers coming up at the end of the cycle it could have been the start of a bounce, or just the shot wearing of, but since the numbers dipped at onset of the pm shot, it looks more like lack of duration in this morning's cycle. Had it been a bounce we would expect the numbers stay flat.
 
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By getting a +5 as Marje suggested you should be catching the nadir. (Low point in the cycle), and we can see if Jasper is prone to fast drops.
 
Yeah, he came pretty low at 64, I figured a low was coming. I should also note, at +6 while taking blood his stomach pretty noisy (stomach growling but with a kind of liquid pulled through tube sound) don't know if that makes even a lick of sense
 
Thanks, @Gill & George for responding. I fell asleep :(

Aaron and Jasper said:
Yeah, he came pretty low at 64, I figured a low was coming. I should also note, at +6 while taking blood his stomach pretty noisy (stomach growling but with a kind of liquid pulled through tube sound) don't know if that makes even a lick of sense
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I suspected he might drop down. Did you feed the 64?

I know it’s difficult but, IMHO, as much as you can do it, for now, I’d suggest you try and feed him every two hours at least during the day up to +10 . At night, I’d feed at PMPS,+2, and every two hours until you go to bed. Then leave food down. I don’t mean for you to get up just to feed but it might also help with these dropping numbers.
 
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I did not feed at 64, just got up to test. I encourage him to snack often, and cocktail shrimp is the only he'll eat all of. He's been snacking on his glyco dry. He started high this morning but I was going to shave a half an hour off of amps anyway so lan was a half hour early. Hopefully that will be some room to fall back down
 
Did he have any food after +10?

As his BG was coming up you were alright to shoot 30min early. For George it generally didn't make much difference to his cycle if I shot 30 minutes early or 30min late but some cats react more significantly to a change in shot time. Shooting early may act as a slight dose increase and conversely shooting late can act as a slight dose increase.
 
You’ll want to start a new condo. I’d like to post some information for you but best to do it there as we start a new day.

Thanks, Aaron.
 
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