Seeing progress. Hopeful cat dad

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Aaron and Jasper said:
You're okay marje, thank you. I really hope he doesn't fall that low, if he does there's honey. I'm just my wit's end I thought I was close to being out of the water
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I’m so sorry.......I truly understand. If it will help you sleep better, put a ml or so of honey in with the gravy. It might spike him but you will worry less.

If you do need help, there are probably more people that would respond quickly to a 911 on the Lantus/Levemir forum of this board.

I hope you get some rest. And he is very safe at 78. The Prime tends to read a little lower.

I’ll check in in the morning. Snuggles for Jasper...he’s been such a good boy.
 
He seems okay, meowing, still being carefree about the ears. Feeding was right before I went to bed, around 6.5. due for food in about 2 hours
 
I can't seem to find a sticky on enticing your cat? I might need to enact some of those tactics today if someone has access to the link that would be very helpful. That's the last hill to get over imo
 
How about starting a new thread for today over on the Lantus board?

Start the thread with the date , then your kittys name followed by AMPS and the BG number. Once you get the thread going we can place a link in it that will point back to this thread so folks can quickly see the history.


 
Hello all, I got a little bit of sleep, feeling slightly better. His amps was a little late but it was 126. His lantus is going in right around +13, just so all parties are aware I lost an hour in there. That time will be 20 minutes from this post, and after the lantus ill (try) to feed, so hopeful he eats!

Marje do you still feel like I should shoot 1.75 as discussed? And thank you for the assist tips, really hoping to not need them but I went through 50 strips already and need to head out anyway
 
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Aaron and Jasper said:
Hello all, I got a little bit of sleep, feeling slightly better. His amps was a little late but it was 126. His lantus is going in right around +13, just so all parties are aware I lost an hour in there. That time will be 20 minutes from this post, and after I (try) to feed, so hopeful he eats!

Marje do you still feel like I should shoot 1.75 as discussed? And thank you for the assist tips, really hoping to not need them but I went through 50 strips already and need to head out anyway
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Honestly....he’s responding perfectly to this dose and, for any other cat under this situation, I’d rather see the 2u dose held. But I worry about you and how long you can keep this up.

I am very concerned that’s he’s not eating on his own. DKA doesn’t just happen because there isn’t enough food or insulin. There has to also be an infection and, from what we can tell, they didn’t address that or give you antibiotics. DKA cats can be prone to getting DKA again specifically when the underlying infection isn’t addressed.

I haven’t answered your question on dose because what I feel is best for him and what I feel is best for you are two different things. I’ve been really happy with his progress on this dose...he’s responded wonderfully and he might want a reduction in the near future but he’s doing great right now.

One way we can hold the dose is to get a little bit higher carb food in him. At this point, it’s not so important what the carbs are as long as we can get enough insulin in him to keep the numbers good. As one of our other members has said in the past, “I don’t care if you give him a sundae”.

What do you think?

Edited to add: don’t worry about the late dose....we have ways to fix that.
 
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Aaron and Jasper said:
Okay, well best for him would mean what for me? He takes the cake. What would I need to "keep up?" Just the hours/testing?
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Yes. You could have more late nights where you have to syringe him food....and if low numbers stress you, you’ll have to deal with that stress. Your sleep will likely be diminished at least u til he’s eating on his own.

You said yesterday that he’s getting about half his normal amount of food but we really want him to get 2-3x his normal calories which doesn’t necessarily mean more food but a food with more calories in it.

And it could mean more pokes for him....certainly not many less. You’ll need to have lots of strips on hand. Most keep a pretty good cushion of strips on hand.
 
Please see above post but I wanted to give you some ideas on food.

Science Diet makes a/d (canned). It’s 12% calories from carbs. I wish it had more calories in it but it’s got 33/oz. Iams used to make a great recovery food with 54 calories/ounce and higher carbs. I’m trying to find if they still make it. Royal Canin makes a Recovery food but it is 3% carbs and same calories as a/d so a/d would be a better choice. I like these kinds of food because they are easy to blend with liquid and syringe. What size syringe do you have?

Let me look around a bit more on foods. Pls let me know when you have fed and shot.
 
I just shot and he seems interested in chicken feast!! I gave him three options. I don't think he's eating any of the food, but hes licking up all of the gravy. Would those be at a pet store or a vet? Should I see how expensive blood tests are around? Would that offer a "yes or no" to infection or would it open another rabbit hole
 
Wellness Turkey has 218 calories in a 5.5 oz. can. Wellness Chicken has 220 calories per 5.5 oz. can. Beef & Chicken has 193 calories (5.5 oz. can). All three of these flavors blend smoothly if needed for syringe feeding.
 
Aaron and Jasper said:
I just shot and he seems interested in chicken feast!! I gave him three options. I don't think he's eating any of the food, but hes licking up all of the gravy. Would those be at a pet store or a vet? Should I see how expensive blood tests are around? Would that offer a "yes or no" to infection or would it open another rabbit hole
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Go Jasper!! Gravy is a good place to start. The foods I listed are through a vet.

The ones Jill listed are at the pet store and will be less expensive and more readily available. They will have more in the range of 4-5% calories from carbs but you’ve also got gravy there that you could mix in with them to bring their carb content up some. They would also be cheaper. I’d be sure and stock up on the foods with gravy which you can get at Walmart and will be a lot cheaper.

The one that was really high calorie was Iams Max Calorie but it appears they no longer make it.

Blood tests won’t necessarily tell you about infection. He could have a dental issue and you might or might not see an elevation in white blood count. Does he seem to be urinating ok because diabetic cats can be prone to urinary tract infections. BTW...have you been checking his ketones? That’s a daily “must do”. He could have pancreatitis which might be a reason he doesn’t want to eat.

Does he seem nauseous when you offer food? Does he salivate, lick his lips, or just walk away? If so, he might need something for that like ondansetron which is a prescription from the vet.

If you need really good, 10cc syringes that don’t ever stick, I can send you several. I keep them in stock here and they are fantastic for syringe feeding. If you want some of them, please PM me your address and I’ll put them in the mail today.
 
From what I've read it could be dental, pancre, or uti. I had a urinalysis done at the vet. I know dental wouldn't, but would the other two remedy themselves? Biopsys are expensive and likely troublesome with him being sick.
He was licking his lips but he did sit down over the bowl and get all the gravy (I saw him "chewing" some of the pieces, too. Only a few it looks like. Then he walks away from the food food.
I never caught a pee last night, trust me I was watching for one. In fact he hasn't seemed to have peed out the fluids I gave him unless he peed while I was asleep
 
Aaron and Jasper said:
From what I've read it could be dental, pancre, or uti. I had a urinalysis done at the vet. I know dental wouldn't, but would the other two remedy themselves? Biopsys are expensive and likely troublesome with him being sick.
He was licking his lips but he did sit down over the bowl and get all the gravy (I saw him "chewing" some of the pieces, too. Only a few it looks like.
I never caught a pee last night, trust me I was watching for one. In fact he hasn't seemed to have peed out the fluids I gave him unless he peed while I was asleep
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How was the UA at the vet.... normal? Urinary tract infections will not heal themselves. Pancreatitis is diagnosed with a blood test. Usually it requires the kind of support you are giving (fluids, assist feeding). time, plus anti nausea meds and pain meds.

If his gums are really red or inflamed, if he has a lot of tartar on his teeth, if his breath is bad....all indicators of potential infection but sometimes they can’t see if without X-rays which require anesthesia.

Some vets will give a broad spectrum antibiotic for DKA cats but that won’t necessarily keep the infection from coming back if they don’t know what they are treating. My vet is cautious with antibiotics and doesn’t throw them at something without knowing what it is.

It might not hurt to call the vet and see if you can get a prescription for ondansetron (aka zofran). It is a human drug but works great in cats. It’s usually prescribed in 4 mg tabs and you give 1/4 orally 2-3 times a day. Some vets are not familiar with it and will want to give cerenia. It might help a little but not as much as ondansetron. Only ask for about five with refills because it is expensive. It tastes bitter so if you aren’t an absolute pro at pilling, I’d get some Beechnut chicken or turkey baby food (it’s the only one I’ve found with nothing but meat and meat broth which is what you want), crush the 1/4 tab in it, add a drop of water, and syringe. Best to give 30 mins before food. And....he might eat baby food which would be totally fine here and there.
 
UA
 

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Aaron and Jasper said:
UA
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They didn’t do a full UA. Looks like they were primarily checking ketones and glucose.

Aaron and Jasper said:
His teeth are not great, all three apply.
Should I look into a broad spectrum?
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Do you have a regular vet that you could discuss this with? I mentioned it only because there must be infection somewhere and I’ve seen vets use broad spectrum antibiotics. But, that was just a starting place for you to talk to your own vet to try and figure out what caused this DKA.

I have to leave in an hour and will be out most of the day. It would be really good to now start a new thread in the Lantus/Basalgar, Levemir group as there are many more people there to help if his numbers start to come down and you need support. To the left of the thread title is a drop down box and if he started to get lower and you needed immediate help, select “911” in that box. Just be sure you take it down as soon as someone responds to you.

You’ll want to link this thread at the very top of your post over there. To do so, copy this thread’s browser address, go to the L/B/L ISG (I linked it early this morning in post #101 of this thread, and open a new thread there. Put your cursor in the text box, type “DKA Thread”, highlight it. Then click on the hyperlink icon above the text box (7th from left). Paste your browser address in the box and click “insert”.

I need to go see why his SS is doing weird things when I click on the link in FDMB. You shot at +13 this morning, yes?

If you want to get back to a 10 or 10:30 shot time, then shoot early 30 minutes once a day until you are back to the time you want to be at.

I’ll check in before I go. I like that +1! Good job shooting 2u.
 
Busy day for me. Further test times. He isn't really going down slightly raising. I put him out a medley of food; I got him fancy, wellness, and beech. He licked up all the above gravy except for the beech. He ate some chunks here and there. I also picked up something called nutrical from "tomlyn" it's a high calorie nutritional gel. Feed feel to share your thoughts, I will picture it. I think I need to feed the beech before I start fluids

I didn't get to the vets for zofran, but it may be a possibility tonight/tomorrow. Also, at +4 I got a pee sample and it showed pretty much "negative" light brown color. Maybe slightly "trace." The collection wasn't ideal as he was super squatted, so something may have misread, but that's what I got. Will try again whenever he allows
 
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Aaron and Jasper said:
Busy day for me. Further test times. He isn't really going down slightly raising. I put him out a medley of food; I got him fancy, wellness, and beech. He licked up all the above gravy except for the beech. He ate some chunks here and there. I also picked up something called nutrical from "tomlyn" it's a high calorie nutritional gel. Feed feel to share your thoughts, I will picture it. I think I need to feed the beech before I start fluids

I didn't get to the vets for zofran, but it may be a possibility tonight/tomorrow. Also, at +4 I got a pee sample and it showed pretty much "negative" light brown color. Maybe slightly "trace." The collection wasn't ideal as he was super squatted, so something may have misread, but that's what I got. Will try again whenever he allows
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Looks like he is bouncing a bit from the lower numbers last night. When their livers are used to higher numbers but then the insulin causes a lower BG (not even low but lower than what they are used to), the liver goes into protective mode by dumping counterregulatory hormones and glucagon into the blood which raises the BG. It’s a normal reaction. It can take up to six cycles to clear those substances out and numbers come back to normal so we are patient. Of course, some cats only take a cycle before “clearing the bounce”.

I’m glad he’s showing some interest in foods. Have you given him the Nutrical? It is loaded with sugar so is not really the best option for a diabetic cat but we can see what it does to his BG. After all, we did say he needs more calories!! It’s worth a try....we can adjust the dose but if the BG goes way up, then we might need to try something else. Can you be sure an note on the SS when you give it so we can see if it does impact his BG? Thank you.
 
I figured/hoped he was bouncing, I'm just very glad you said it. And yeah, I gave him the end of a fingers worth earlier (who knows how much.) I do a question though, feeding time has been rather tough today (he wants nothing to do with the syringe now/making himself choke) when I'm getting ready for pm shoot I have one can that he will possibly eat, but other than that it's gravy, force or nutrical

Edit: right after I sent that he got up and went and actually ate.
 
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Aaron and Jasper said:
Would the nutrical be a good replacement for honey in the chance of low numbers? High sugar and calories?
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It might be. I’ve never used it but you could try it. Sometimes there is so much sugar in some of these that it can totally zap duration but I don’t know if this is one. Diabetes is all about experimentation and learning what affects your cat because what affects him, might not affect another. You will see it here all the time....Every Cat is Different.

I see you have a post on the Lantus/Levemir forum so let’s move any further discussions over there.

Any followers, please find Jasper and Aaron at this link today: Jasper’s 8/31 L/B/L Condo
 
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