Newbie to ProZinc

I know, Janet. It really does suck. It's natural that you'd want the insulin to be a magic answer and I really hoped it would be, too. I'd keep up with the increases every 3 to 4 cycles (whatever is most comfortable...3 is fine, but some like 4 so they can always increase during the day). I think you're probably seeing some insulin resistance too. And the only way to deal with that is to keep the increases going until you hit whatever that magic number is. We've seen it time and again (and I'm sure you have too!) where you just go up and up and then one day you hit that number and they run back down the scale! It's harder when it's happening to you, but I have faith that you'll get there.

How is CC acting? Remember she is more than just a number. Does she seem to be feeling okay?
 
Rachel said:
I know, Janet. It really does suck. It's natural that you'd want the insulin to be a magic answer and I really hoped it would be, too. I'd keep up with the increases every 3 to 4 cycles (whatever is most comfortable...3 is fine, but some like 4 so they can always increase during the day). I think you're probably seeing some insulin resistance too. And the only way to deal with that is to keep the increases going until you hit whatever that magic number is. We've seen it time and again (and I'm sure you have too!) where you just go up and up and then one day you hit that number and they run back down the scale! It's harder when it's happening to you, but I have faith that you'll get there.

How is CC acting? Remember she is more than just a number. Does she seem to be feeling okay?
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She is acting ok. Is purring.... Was up in her cat tree this morning. Playing less then I'd like but she's probably not in a playful mood when almost 500.

a good thing is the gaba is helping. While she's not walking around a whole lot, she's also not limping.

I feel at these high doses vetsulin brought it down more but it may have stung more.
 
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Stay the course, Janet. As we often tell other new members, there IS a dose that will get her down. I'd continue half unit increases every three or four cycles.
 
So far 6 units have not moved her. It’s like I shot water.

Ketones are low at 0.6

But here’s the weird thing. We came home from errands and she was laying on the bathroom floor. Unusual place for her. A couple min later I look at her and she’s laying IN the litter box. Never in 13 years have I seen her do that.
 
FurBabiesMama said:
It sure seems like SOMETHING has to be wrong. Could she have a UTI?
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I didn’t think so. I mean she’s peeing softball size lumps from drinking a ton... but not making a lot of trips to the bathroom. She’s in the living room now... she was only in the box a min or two laying down. Maybe she’s just letting me know she doesn’t feel good. I wonder if she’s constipated. It’s hard to know who went when you’ve got 6 cats. I know she pooped 2 days ago because I saw her... otherwise I don’t know.
 
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Ok so we discovered while we were out she cleaned out all the food bowls off fancy feast and managed to get her fat limping self onto the table and eating all of the epigen 90 kibble. Where there's a will there's a way. (Supposed to be about 5% carb but you eat enough of it and a carb sensitive cat is going to get high numbers). Laura said she noticed it was empty when we got home. Then as we were having lunch she got herself on my son's chair next to him and he had to hold her back from getting on the table while she yelled, pushed and struggled to get onto the table. Haha my goodness that cat is pushy.
That kibble is in an auto feeder so I just turned the section to empty. I call this picture "Where'd All the Kibble Go?" She was mad.
Of course this still doesn't explain the weird sitting in the litterbox box thing.

Out of curiosity I put a glucose strip into my ketone meter... Read 309 (was 433 on the alpha)... I said maybe we should switch to a human meter, the numbers aren't as scary. Lol
 
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She might feel "off" from higher numbers and that can also be why she's so hungry. I say keep on with the increases and ketone testing.
 
Other options could be emerging neuropathy from having been in high numbers for awhile now, or pancreatitis. It's unfortunately common with so many diabetic cats. Both of those can cause cats to find new positions and places to lie down. Although the neuropathy would have made it even harder to get to that kibble, so that one doesn't seem too likely given her afternoon hi jinks. :cat:
 
Djamila said:
Other options could be emerging neuropathy from having been in high numbers for awhile now, or pancreatitis. It's unfortunately common with so many diabetic cats. Both of those can cause cats to find new positions and places to lie down. Although the neuropathy would have made it even harder to get to that kibble, so that one doesn't seem too likely given her afternoon hi jinks. :cat:
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I've been giving zobaline just in case. She hasn't done it since that one time. I'll pay attention to any other weirdness I observe.
 
I don’t know guys. I am thinking she did better on the vetsulin. ProZinc is doing nothing for her. :/. The only good thing of the ProZinc over the vetsulin is the actual injection doesn’t seem to bother her as much. But it’s like shooting water.

How bad would it be to shoot 1-2 units of vetsulin mid cycle to get the number down a little for ProZinc’s next preshot.
 
If you want to try something like that, I would suggest R instead of Vetsulin. It's designed to be used that way. Although truthfully, I wouldn't go that route just yet. You've only been on Prozinc for a week. Normally you would just be starting dose increases now. Her little body has barely had a minute to adjust. If you're still not seeing much response after another week, it may be worth gathering some folks to think through other measures, but for now, I really think she needs some time....as hard as it is to wait. If you introduce a fast acting insulin, and then the prozinc really kicks in, you could end up with a low that's hard to raise.
 
Djamila said:
If you want to try something like that, I would suggest R instead of Vetsulin. It's designed to be used that way. Although truthfully, I wouldn't go that route just yet. You've only been on Prozinc for a week. Normally you would just be starting dose increases now. Her little body has barely had a minute to adjust. If you're still not seeing much response after another week, it may be worth gathering some folks to think through other measures, but for now, I really think she needs some time....as hard as it is to wait. If you introduce a fast acting insulin, and then the prozinc really kicks in, you could end up with a low that's hard to raise.
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Ty Patience is not one of my stronger traits. I think as long as she’s acting ok and ketones are low just need to learn to put on my patience pants. I really thought that by the end of the summer, after two months of being home and being able to closely monitor, that she would be in a much better place. so having her even more out of wack than the beginning of summer is just really disappointing. As much as I want to control it ,some things are just out of my control. (Sigh)
 
I'm with Djamila on this Janet. Vestsulin is stronger in its ability to pull down BG so it's possible you'll need a higher dose of ProZinc to get action. Give it a little more time and continue those 0.5 u increases after 3 cycles.
 
JanetNJ said:
Some insulin’s sting at high doses. Vetsulin and lantus I believe.
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Is the stinging site-localized or does, for example, it still sting if a 6u kitty gets two 3u doses immediately after each other, like one on each of her sides? Or would something like that just be terrible in the long run bc shot sites are supposed to be moved around, and so two injections each “shot” would ultimately make it harder not to give shots in the same place as time goes on?

Sorry I sound like a three year old! (But whhhhhyyy??) :)
 
Jenna Josie said:
Is the stinging site-localized or does, for example, it still sting if a 6u kitty gets two 3u doses immediately after each other, like one on each of her sides? Or would something like that just be terrible in the long run bc shot sites are supposed to be moved around, and so two injections each “shot” would ultimately make it harder not to give shots in the same place as time goes on?

Sorry I sound like a three year old! (But whhhhhyyy??) :)
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When I she would sometimes grumble or twitch her back when the vetsulin dose was over 4. Not a huge deal but enough that I could see it annoyed her sometimes.
 
JanetNJ said:
As much as I want to control it ,some things are just out of my control. (Sigh)
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I think this is so hard for all of us. Remember with CC that at this point you aren't just dealing with diabetes. She has a chronic condition that causes some rather serious inflammation. Unless they discover some magical way to make the arthritis go away, it's unlikely that your spreadsheet is going to be all pretty blues and greens at this point. I do believe it can be better than it is, but inflammation raises numbers, and waxes and wanes depending on the day, the weather, how recently meds were given, etc. Just keep doing the best you can with the pain meds and insulin, and try to find some peace in knowing that the numbers you're seeing are just going to be what they're going to be. It isn't that you're missing anything or doing anything wrong.

You joked on an earlier post about switching to a human meter, but honestly it's a good idea. It will still give you the information you need, and it will make you feel better to see the numbers on a human meter. Remember that your well being in all of this matters too.
 
Djamila said:
I think this is so hard for all of us. Remember with CC that at this point you aren't just dealing with diabetes. She has a chronic condition that causes some rather serious inflammation. Unless they discover some magical way to make the arthritis go away, it's unlikely that your spreadsheet is going to be all pretty blues and greens at this point. I do believe it can be better than it is, but inflammation raises numbers, and waxes and wanes depending on the day, the weather, how recently meds were given, etc. Just keep doing the best you can with the pain meds and insulin, and try to find some peace in knowing that the numbers you're seeing are just going to be what they're going to be. It isn't that you're missing anything or doing anything wrong.

You joked on an earlier post about switching to a human meter, but honestly it's a good idea. It will still give you the information you need, and it will make you feel better to see the numbers on a human meter. Remember that your well being in all of this matters too.
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Great advice, Djamila! It's for different reasons but I had to learn to accept Teasel's way of responding a long time ago. I'm sure it's more disappointing if you've had a remission and then a relapse but acceptance gives you peace of mind.

I agree about the psychological boost of seeing human meter numbers rather than AT numbers. Yes, they're a result of a different meter but you can still learn kitty's patterns and respond appropriately when they're too high or too low. Also - you can put the test strip savings toward the extra insulin cost if kitty needs a higher dose range going forward.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Great advice, Djamila! It's for different reasons but I had to learn to accept Teasel's way of responding a long time ago. I'm sure it's more disappointing if you've had a remission and then a relapse but acceptance gives you peace of mind.

I agree about the psychological boost of seeing human meter numbers rather than AT numbers. Yes, they're a result of a different meter but you can still learn kitty's patterns and respond appropriately when they're too high or too low. Also - you can put the test strip savings toward the extra insulin cost if kitty needs a higher dose range going forward.
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My strips are cheap... I get 50 for about $12-15
 
JanetNJ said:
On the good side, my average amps for the past 3 days is 376.3. The three days prior to that it was 466. So that's an improvement.
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Something great to focus on! I know (trust me I KNOW) how hard it is to see our kitties during bad times when they aren't improving. I've cried to a few people on here during tough times with my Tigress when she seemed to be getting worse and worse and having cystitis flares every few days. I thought she'd be miserable forever and never get better and I wasn't sure what to do. But over time with patience, love, and some serious work on my part, we reached a place where she doesn't have them nearly as much and I have much less stress even when she does. I know it's not the same, but she needed TIME to let the supplements and other changes work in her system to get better. But she DID. And my stress level decreasing and just accepting that it's tough and she is going to have a chronic illness we have to work through really helped us both I think. Give it some time. I TRULY believe CC will hit that dose that is right and then things will get better. I've seen it happen over and over and over here. Keep up the good work, Janet! You'll get her there.
 
Rachel said:
Something great to focus on! I know (trust me I KNOW) how hard it is to see our kitties during bad times when they aren't improving. I've cried to a few people on here during tough times with my Tigress when she seemed to be getting worse and worse and having cystitis flares every few days. I thought she'd be miserable forever and never get better and I wasn't sure what to do. But over time with patience, love, and some serious work on my part, we reached a place where she doesn't have them nearly as much and I have much less stress even when she does. I know it's not the same, but she needed TIME to let the supplements and other changes work in her system to get better. But she DID. And my stress level decreasing and just accepting that it's tough and she is going to have a chronic illness we have to work through really helped us both I think. Give it some time. I TRULY believe CC will hit that dose that is right and then things will get better. I've seen it happen over and over and over here. Keep up the good work, Janet! You'll get her there.
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Ty you so much for your encouragement. :)
 
Ohhhhh how nice!!! That bounce stinks, but it's to be expected as you know. That blue is awesome though!
 
So I had those decent numbers the other day which have since disappeared. She may still be in a bounce. Should I hold at 7 tonight or raise it?
 
Hey Janet! Sorry I wasn't around earlier...had a family situation I was dealing with. I see you raised it tonight. That's what I would have suggested doing. Even though it is possible CC is in a bounce, the numbers weren't low enough to be dangerous (especially for a caretaker as experienced as you are). With the suspicions that CC may be having some insulin resistance, you want to keep that momentum of every 3 cycles up. Those blues were beautiful and hopefully a sign that we're nearing that breakthrough dose!
 
Rachel said:
Hey Janet! Sorry I wasn't around earlier...had a family situation I was dealing with. I see you raised it tonight. That's what I would have suggested doing. Even though it is possible CC is in a bounce, the numbers weren't low enough to be dangerous (especially for a caretaker as experienced as you are). With the suspicions that CC may be having some insulin resistance, you want to keep that momentum of every 3 cycles up. Those blues were beautiful and hopefully a sign that we're nearing that breakthrough dose!
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I raised it just a little tonight but could do 7.5 tomorrow
 
Decent preshot this morning (relatively). 299. I'm glad it was 299 and not 300... Psychologically I like seeing the yellow number. Lol. Crossing g fingers! I'm only going to be home until +4.5 today.
 
+11 222!!!!

So when I test in a half hour or so... if it’s 250ish should I do 7.5 or reduce slightly?
 
JanetNJ said:
+11 222!!!!

So when I test in a half hour or so... if it’s 250ish should I do 7.5 or reduce slightly?
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I'd try 7.5 u again. You're experienced and you might as well do these experiments in the days before you go back to work. If she's built up some glucose toxicity you might be at the "breakthrough" dose and she might come down over time.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'd try 7.5 u again. You're experienced and you might as well do these experiments in the days before you go back to work. If she's built up some glucose toxicity you might be at the "breakthrough" dose and she might come down over time.
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Ok but if I'm up at 2am shoving honey in her face you better be up too! Lol. I'll test her in 10 min or so.

Here's a picture for cuteness. My son put together Gotham City and she was just checking it out.

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