27.07, Porto, AMPS 292, + 3 235, + 8 210, +10 396, PMPS 469, +3 442, +6 367 - vet visit

[Manu & Porto]

yesterday

Here we go again today, his BG is lower and no surprise, he has been eating less. Im trying horse meat but that has no carbs so Im watching the blood. I try giving carb foods to compensate but he wont have it. Today a lower dose, 1 unit instead of 1.25 as Im not sure how he will eat throughout the day.

Wish us luck to the vet today! This needs a quick fix, as he is loosing weight and Im going nuts trying to find some HC food he would also eat and not upset tummy, but we wont find a quick fix for it, it will be long days until then...

 

[Bellasmom]

Hope all goes well at vet and sending vines to Porto
Would he eat cooked chicken or some broth?

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Good luck today! If there is no medical issues like his heart to make him be a bad risk for surgery, be insistent that they take care of the bad tooth. He will not get regulated being in pain from a bad tooth. So , if that's the vet's reasoning to not take care of the tooth , well then it's just a rediculous reason.

And I hope the Holiday does not interfere. If it does insist they give him something for pain so he can eat.

Keep us posted.

 

[Manu & Porto]

Hope all goes well at vet and sending vines to Porto
Would he eat cooked chicken or some broth?

He has such a sensitive tummy and so many allergies that is why I bought horse meat and lamb. I am trying with these, I am scared not to mess him up with chicken as it caused loose stool before. thank you so much, Bellasmom!

 

[Manu & Porto]

Good luck today! If there is no medical issues like his heart to make him be a bad risk for surgery, be insistent that they take care of the bad tooth. He will not get regulated being in pain from a bad tooth. So , if that's the vet's reasoning to not take care of the tooth , well then it's just a rediculous reason.

And I hope the Holiday does not interfere. If it does insist they give him something for pain so he can eat.

Keep us posted.

I will insist for sure, last time there were no issues with his heart. I want that bad tooth out. I cant see him like this, he is just laying all day long.
I will keep posting after the vet, I am so nervous. Thank you, thank you all for encouragements!

 

[Bellasmom]

He has such a sensitive tummy and so many allergies that is why I bought horse meat and lamb. I am trying with these, I am scared not to mess him up with chicken as it caused loose stool before. thank you so much, Bellasmom!

I hope he gets to feeling better very soon

 

[Olive & Paula]

I guess you tried rabbit, venison, quail etc. I hope you can get the tooth fixed.

 

[Olive & Paula]

Oh Bella the threat is on the table. Better listen.

 

[Manu & Porto]

I guess you tried rabbit, venison, quail etc. I hope you can get the tooth fixed.

Hi Paula! Thank you so much for suggestions, we tried quail, I had rabbit but didnt try it as right then we introduced the ziwi and we stuck with that as it was working. Ziwipeak was with venison and we still have like 30 cans left and last two days he wanted nothing with it. He reacts to it like if Im trying to give him poison. If I were to buy venison meat Im sure hed eat, but all I could find was condiment venison meat, already prepared for cooking which Im afraid to buy and even clean because it might have absorbed salt, oil, even sugars and they might be inside the meat. Ill post now a summary of vet visit..

 

[Manu & Porto]

We are back home. The vet looked at his mouth and said it could be cause for him refusing to eat but he didnt see it so bad. He also suspects nausea. I wanted to check blood but he said no, lets not stress him more... (we had a blood analysis taken 1 and half months ago and all was alright so maybe thats why?). Either way, I would have liked to see it but I can always try with another vet for that. He has gingivitis he said but the teeth dont look in such bad shape so we will wait to see how the treatment goes. Gave us bupre!! (thank god, I was going to ask for it if not), mirtazapine( he sad only give if we see he is refusing to eat because of the reactions) and an antibiotic for the next 4 days (that he injected in the clinic and I forgot to ask what it was!! I did see it was starting with M, maybe marbocyl o metro, but cant be sure). Also cerenia for every day.
Now, my issue is with food and I would appreciate any advice. Before this "break" he was eating 100 gr a day of 20% CH food and 30 gr a day of 7% food. Now, he is refusing this food completely. We worked a lot to get him to eat this and now he just doesnt want it anymore. So I have to reorganise and now I will feed the horse/lamb/cooked meat (boiled in water) so that is 0 carbs. I think feeding something and him eating is better than nothing although the vet said to stay away from novel diet, she doesnt like me giving horse meat. So, since it is the only HC food he will accept, some royal canin kibble, I will add to his diet again although last thing I want. Looking at the calories per day for him, Id only have to add 20 gr or so daily, which would mean he would eat 5.2 HC daily (rc kibble has 26 DM per 100 gr). That is lower than he was receiving with his Ziwipeaks diet. I can not change the diet slowly, he is not interested in the other diet. So I have to introduce this, all of a sudden, or he wont eat. So, given the situation, what to do with the insulin? Should I skip a shot and check his blood after the new diet? I am really at a loss... The vet said to check and lower if needed but he gave me no type of advice on how to organise myself around a new dose, when to cut, and how to do it. Back home his BG was 210 which is quite low considering he has been in high 300 lately, the vet and the fact we lowered the dose this morning to 1 ud instead of 1,25.

I have a video I made of him, he is groggy from the bupe and hungry, he wont move from this spot where he has received food today, hes been standing on his ass, there, since we got back, expecting more food I guess. Im feeding him the boiled horse meat, he is loving it and eating. On the side, theres the beef and venison wet food (ziwipeaks) that he wont even look at. Im thinking that, because of its texture (pasty, pate like) and because of teeth, he may have considered it the culprit for his tooth aches and if so, we may be doomed, and he may never go back at it. We will just have to wait and see. Video:

porto home


Any input from you would be so appreciated, thank you so so much! Knowing he is drugged up makes me feel better, knowing he is in no pain right now. I should take some for me, also, I may need it more than him, Ive been all over the place since yesterday.

 

[Manu & Porto]

And there we go, high again. In the pm we switch diet so we will see how that goes. Will keep his usual dose of 1,25 if PMPS looks the same.

 

[Robbie & Oreo]

He may be very willing to eat once the nausea is under control. Oreo had to be syringe fed for a while when her nausea was bad. She refused to eat anything. Cerenia has really helped her and she still gets it every other day. Hopefully these meds will work soon and you'll see a big difference in Porto's appetite.

 

[Manu & Porto]

He may be very willing to eat once the nausea is under control. Oreo had to be syringe fed for a while when her nausea was bad. She refused to eat anything. Cerenia has really helped her and she still gets it every other day. Hopefully these meds will work soon and you'll see a big difference in Porto's appetite.

Id want him to go back to his diet which we control and we know it is ok for his tummy. So far, he is eating but only what he wants. Maybe he isnt really hungry, just the effect of the drugs, so that is why he is so picky. Hopefully you are right and he will start eating everything, once these symptoms go away and he feels better! First time Im dealing with it so we will see. Thank you so much !

 

[Olive & Paula]

I have a few concerns and really nothing to back it up. Just my gut talking here. If it's possible I would get to dental specialist. I know from my regular vet teeth don't seem to be a concern with him. You don't want the teeth, gingivitis or the bad tooth getting any worse. It might not be able to treat then. I learned from Smokey to ignore the vet saying "they aren't bad don't need dental". Then later get told he needs FME but now to old and sick that no one would put him under anesthesia.

2nd thing is are you sure where the horse meat is coming from? Just last year dog food was recalled because euthanasia drug was found in it from the horse meat they sourced. Some dogs didn't make it.

 

[Manu & Porto]

I have a few concerns and really nothing to back it up. Just my gut talking here. If it's possible I would get to dental specialist. I know from my regular vet teeth don't seem to be a concern with him. You don't want the teeth, gingivitis or the bad tooth getting any worse. It might not be able to treat then. I learned from Smokey to ignore the vet saying "they aren't bad don't need dental". Then later get told he needs FME but now to old and sick that no one would put him under anesthesia.

2nd thing is are you sure where the horse meat is coming from? Just last year dog food was recalled because euthanasia drug was found in it from the horse meat they sourced. Some dogs didn't make it.

Thank you so much!

He said to let her know by mail, these days, how is he doing.When I first changed to this vet, we already had done a mouth cleaning, with another vet, maybe half a year back and he said, looking at his mouth, that he needs some pieces out still. I was surprised because we just had that done but happy to do it, of course, at his advice. So now I was kind of hoping he would say the same but no, according to him this time they dont look so bad. But, as you say, we dont have time this time, to wait around, plus he has got himself some chronic conditions since then so I will go for a second opinion once we calm down a bit, maybe next week. Ive been looking for a new vet for almost two months now, calling clinics but very few work with Lantus. For dental issues, I did a search and google popped a few but I have no reference from anybody. Is going blindly to a vet and thinking he knows what he is doing. But a second opinion is in order, thank you for suggesting!

And second point, makes me wonder as I havent thought about it until now. It is actually foal meat and I bought it from the ecologic stand... I dont know whats in it but if I cant feed that, Im left with few other options...

 

[Manu & Porto]

He just had RC kibble and wet venison as his before insulin meal. High in carbs both and with this BG... not happy but at least he is eating. Couldnt give the foal meat after hearing what Paula had to say about it. Praying his BG wont go higher. Did 1,25 unit.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Hi Mauro. I am so glad they gave you some pain meds and something for nausea and an antibiotic, but the AB is temporary , if there is a bad tooth, when the AB is out of his system, the toothache will return. Just keep in mind, that inflammation ( gingivitis) is enough to keep her numbers higher and the only way to get rid of the gingivitis is a cleaning. And at that time they will be able to really be in her mouth and see if there is a bad tooth for them to remove. And the antibiotic will not clear up the gingivitis or any possible bad tooth so I am not understanding the reasoning on the part of your vet.

As far as the Blood Work (BW) goes, I do understand the reasoning of not doing it today due to stress , but a lot can change in 6 weeks . I am a bit disappointed that your vet would not do it to rule out other things if he thinks the teeth aren't too bad. But, again, that said, the gingivitis alone is enough to raise the BGs and I really suspect a toothache which sometimes can't be found until the kitty is put under general anesthesia and the vet can really get in there with a good look and probe around the gum line to find any possible lesions.

Today, all the vet did for you was to buy some time. I like you idea to find a different vet and get another opinion. I know how frustrated you must be. Sending hugs.

 

[Olive & Paula]

Thank you so much!

He said to let her know by mail, these days, how is he doing.When I first changed to this vet, we already had done a mouth cleaning, with another vet, maybe half a year back and he said, looking at his mouth, that he needs some pieces out still. I was surprised because we just had that done but happy to do it, of course, at his advice. So now I was kind of hoping he would say the same but no, according to him this time they dont look so bad. But, as you say, we dont have time this time, to wait around, plus he has got himself some chronic conditions since then so I will go for a second opinion once we calm down a bit, maybe next week. Ive been looking for a new vet for almost two months now, calling clinics but very few work with Lantus. For dental issues, I did a search and google popped a few but I have no reference from anybody. Is going blindly to a vet and thinking he knows what he is doing. But a second opinion is in order, thank you for suggesting!

And second point, makes me wonder as I havent thought about it until now. It is actually foal meat and I bought it from the ecologic stand... I dont know whats in it but if I cant feed that, Im left with few other options...

I just did this with Olive on the 10th. I googled feline dental specialist. The closest was 40 minutes away. My vet didn't think she needed dental, I wanted at least one done in her life.

It was a doctor I know nothing about and that alone is scary. (I went blindly). I went for evaluation, she was checked, I had a look at the OR suite. They only do one dental at a time and there was a dedicated dental team that does nothing but take care of the animal. Still I was petrified because they are unknown to me. Then I asked my vet, and a neighbor who works at another vet clinic. And another vet we had seen to possibly take us on as new client. They all recommended him highly. They said he has the latest dental equip. The new vet said if I didn't like him, she would refer us to Cornell. I was still petrified as they said Olive was high risk. But I still didn't know them. She did fine. Momma did not.

 

[Manu & Porto]

Hi Mauro. I am so glad they gave you some pain meds and something for nausea and an antibiotic, but the AB is temporary , if there is a bad tooth, when the AB is out of his system, the toothache will return. Just keep in mind, that inflammation ( gingivitis) is enough to keep her numbers higher and the only way to get rid of the gingivitis is a cleaning. And at that time they will be able to really be in her mouth and see if there is a bad tooth for them to remove. And the antibiotic will not clear up the gingivitis or any possible bad tooth so I am not understanding the reasoning on the part of your vet.

As far as the Blood Work (BW) goes, I do understand the reasoning of not doing it today due to stress , but a lot can change in 6 weeks . I am a bit disappointed that your vet would not do it to rule out other things if he thinks the teeth aren't too bad. But, again, that said, the gingivitis alone is enough to raise the BGs and I really suspect a toothache which sometimes can't be found until the kitty is put under general anesthesia and the vet can really get in there with a good look and probe around the gum line to find any possible lesions.

Today, all the vet did for you was to buy some time. I like you idea to find a different vet and get another opinion. I know how frustrated you must be. Sending hugs.

Thank you! I really mean it! To all of you! I am almost brought to tears every time I read one of your messages. It is impressive to me how great and supportive and helpful everyone has been. We are so many in need of help on the board and I am thankful for every second of the time you put in helping me. I am still at that point where Im still unsure of the info I gathered about diabetes, enough not to give my opinion, being cautious of not giving bad advice. I also am wrapped up in this issues with my boy that I have little time left but I do put in some time in reading everyone´s story and also, collecting as much info as I can about this disease. Maybe, help someone else someday. That would be a nice payback for all the help Im receiving now!

Going back to the visit, I dont understand either why no blood work. It seems like the vet doesnt want to take my money... I do appreciate the concern about him being stressed, I am a mess when I am there with him but I am keeping it together and actually, having been at the vet with more cats, he behaves rather ok when they have to take him blood, he is a bit vocal about it but I am always by his side and it always seems to sooth him when I speak to him. If she would have done BW I wouldnt have been left with a doubt that maybe something else is going on OR something is in danger of happening!
Since we got back he has been alert nonstop, didnt try to sleep once and that was his routine after vet. Not purring either, not once. And his tummy making noises which he hasnt had in a long time, maybe three four weeks. Im watching him like a hawk obviously. He wants to drink water but he isnt. He is eating, still very picky at first when being shown the food but when I leave a plate out, in the end, after 20 minutes, he will eat, a bit robot like, but eats it. So I guess the bupre is working. Im not going to give the mirtazapine.

I am a bit worried about him not sleeping, I understand thats the effect of bupre but still, I hope he is ok with so long without sleep. Moreover since I have to administer a new dose in 1,5 h and if he is going to react the same, then how much without sleep? Maybe lower the dose? Could anyone advice? Im not sure how much he got at the vet, it was done injectable, and starting tonight Im supposed to give every 12 hours, 0,1 mg orally, administering the injectable liquid mostly on his gums. Looking at the components, the 1 ml solution also contains 50 mg of dextrose, which could affect his BG? Not sure if it is enough to rise it. Which is another story, as he is high and Im thinking about the insulin dose being too little now.. So hard to manage, I feel Im gonna do something bad and break him...

I will pursue that second opinion, I feel great about it. Thanks again! Hugs back for you and for the little pirate that is so lucky to have you as his mom!

 

[Manu & Porto]

I just did this with Olive on the 10th. I googled feline dental specialist. The closest was 40 minutes away. My vet didn't think she needed dental, I wanted at least one done in her life.

It was a doctor I know nothing about and that alone is scary. (I went blindly). I went for evaluation, she was checked, I had a look at the OR suite. They only do one dental at a time and there was a dedicated dental team that does nothing but take care of the animal. Still I was petrified because they are unknown to me. Then I asked my vet, and a neighbor who works at another vet clinic. And another vet we had seen to possibly take us on as new client. They all recommended him highly. They said he has the latest dental equip. The new vet said if I didn't like him, she would refer us to Cornell. I was still petrified as they said Olive was high risk. But I still didn't know them. She did fine. Momma did not.

That is so encouraging, thank you for sharing your experience! I think tomorrow Ill have a look at your experience, Im trusting you shared it in her condo? I changed country 8 years ago and brought Porto with me so the vet issue is so unknown. Hes been my only pet here and up until now, all the experience has been mostly maintenance but now its getting serious so I need to find a good vet, at least as for a second opinion. My current vet has been referred to me. I cant ask my current vet for other vets, Im thinking she would feel hurt probably, although not showing it, and since I dont know her personally that well, am afraid of not affecting her focus off my boy and on relationship with me. Not until I find a viable option. The one thing that worries me about this dental clinic I googled is that they have this offer on dental cleaning all throughout the year that is 140 euro (160 dollars). Thats a bit low, so Im not sure if Im also paying quality. Last time I paid 243 eur (283 american dollars) for 4 pieces of tooth extraction and surgery . I have to be careful with money since without a job but Id pay that and more to know his mouth is clean and he will be alright after surgery. I will try to get some references from more googling and going there in person to speak with them. Thank you again! Hope Olive is doing great, I see she went low in the am but then quickly started to rise.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

I am a bit worried about him not sleeping, I understand thats the effect of bupre

I always thought it made them sleepy. I guess it could do the reverse in some cats, but I don't really know. About the dose, I know it goes by body weight. Perhaps if you google bupr and cats and what is the right dose, you will see a chart. Here's the thing, if you decide to lower the amount, the prefilled syringes are very difficult to give just 1/2. The plungers are hard to depress and it's an all or nothing sort of thing. Someone on the boards before said they took an insulin syringe and inserted it in the prefilled syringe and took out part of it. Then just squirted the remainder into kittie's cheek or gums. And then saved the insulin filled syringe and then expressed it out into a small dish and then used the empty bupr syringe to express it up and then give at a later time.

I am glad he is eating. If you are concerned about not taking in enough water, then just add some to his meals.

And I know what you mean about the help here on the boards. I just to cry all the time with the amount of help and love that is here.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

It can are them a bit of time to get used to the bupe.

If you are going to phone around other vet's about dental, ask who does X-rays before the dental. Twice Neko had problems below the gum line that did not show up on visual inspection. They do need to use anesthesia for the X-ray and dental, and the bloodwork should be no less than 3 months old to make sure they are ok for anesthesia.

 

[Manu & Porto]

I always thought it made them sleepy. I guess it could do the reverse in some cats, but I don't really know. About the dose, I know it goes by body weight. Perhaps if you google bupr and cats and what is the right dose, you will see a chart. Here's the thing, if you decide to lower the amount, the prefilled syringes are very difficult to give just 1/2. The plungers are hard to depress and it's an all or nothing sort of thing. Someone on the boards before said they took an insulin syringe and inserted it in the prefilled syringe and took out part of it. Then just squirted the remainder into kittie's cheek or gums. And then saved the insulin filled syringe and then expressed it out into a small dish and then used the empty bupr syringe to express it up and then give at a later time.

I am glad he is eating. If you are concerned about not taking in enough water, then just add some to his meals.

And I know what you mean about the help here on the boards. I just to cry all the time with the amount of help and love that is here.

Thank you for your support!
I am adding some water to the food but he is still picky.
The solution is in small bottles of 1 ml and she gave me an insulin 1 ml syringe, without a needle, to administer. 0,36 out of 1 ml. that would be for two and almost three administrations. Im wondering if I should cut to 0,33 and use the bottle three times and thus also lowering a bit the dose. After seeing him like now, no sleep for 12 straight hours, I dont think it would hurt. And then consult with the vet tomorrow...

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Thank you for your support!
I am adding some water to the food but he is still picky.
The solution is in small bottles of 1 ml and she gave me an insulin 1 ml syringe, without a needle, to administer. 0,36 out of 1 ml. that would be for two and almost three administrations. Im wondering if I should cut to 0,33 and use the bottle three times and thus also lowering a bit the dose. After seeing him like now, no sleep for 12 straight hours, I dont think it would hurt. And then consult with the vet tomorrow...

Oh, good, sounds like you have a bit more control of the administration of the drug. Might be a good idea to cut back especially since he is eating for you. You don't want to create a zombie.

 

[Manu & Porto]

It can are them a bit of time to get used to the bupe.

If you are going to phone around other vet's about dental, ask who does X-rays before the dental. Twice Neko had problems below the gum line that did not show up on visual inspection. They do need to use anesthesia for the X-ray and dental, and the bloodwork should be no less than 3 months old to make sure they are ok for anesthesia.

Thank you, Wendy! Great idea, will ask prior to scheduling any app. Im worried about anesthesia but leaving it unlooked at will cause much more issues so it has to be looked at...

 

[Manu & Porto]

Slept for 2 hours, Porto 0 hours slept, still. Since got back from the vet.
Want to see him sleep. No more bupre until that happens...

Will write to vet.

+ 11 pm good appetite, gave him food, he ate it right up without waiting.

 

[LizzieInTexas]

Just a suggestion after watching the video... might try feeding off a flat plate (vs. bowl). Seems he is eating off the floor or from the hand and avoiding the bowl. This might be due to the tooth/mouth being sensitive. I hope you can get the dental sooner than later.

 

[Manu & Porto]

Just a suggestion after watching the video... might try feeding off a flat plate (vs. bowl). Seems he is eating off the floor or from the hand and avoiding the bowl. This might be due to the tooth/mouth being sensitive. I hope you can get the dental sooner than later.

Thank you, Lizzie! He eats from a flat plate, always. The bowl was containing the wet but not his bowl. Thank you for suggestion!
We are on it, with the mouth, next week will bring a new visit if his current doctor still says theres no need for surgery.