Everest is making this difficult...

[unscented_seahorse]

Hey everybody, I'm new here but not new to feline diabetes -- 15 years ago my Sweetie kitty lived with diabetes for 2.5 years. However it's been so long that I've forgotten most of what I knew, and now I'm struggling to make things work with my newly diagnosed boycat Everest (in my picture).

Some quick points about Everest (and his flatmates):

• 9 years old
• 14 lbs (rapid weight loss from his usual 18 lbs)
• Handsomest mancat that ever did live
• Diagnosed July 2018 at BG 350
• Started Prozinc 7/22/18 at 1.5 units in U40s
• Shares a home and food bowls with Mama (his actual mom) and sister/lover/"we're just friends" Miss Kitty
• Everyone eats dry Science Diet m/d
• None of these dumb cats will eat pâté no matter how hungry they are (incidentally, m/d only comes wet as a pâté -- thanks kids)
• The only wet food they will eat are Soulistic pouches with gravy
• Everyone has free-fed their whole lives and they do not understand the concept of two mealtimes
• Even with food taken up after they eat, when given a meal they only eat a little bit and walk away

You can see his spreadsheet, which I just started, in my signature.

I'm looking for advice on a few things here if you have some time. First, his levels seem to be all over the place but always too high. Do you think his dosage should be adjusted? If so, to what, and should I do another curve?

Second, the whole food issue. Why is it such a strong recommendation that diabetics eat wet food? And can diabetes be managed with free-feeding? If not... How do I get these kids to understand they only get to eat twice a day? They just don't ever seem that hungry.

And last but not least, this poor kid's ears are practically perforated at this point. I'm bad at hitting the capillaries in his ear and I'm going through test strips like crazy (AlphaTrak) because I can't seem to get enough blood on it before it goes to sleep, and then the strip is wasted. Poking his little toe beans doesn't get nearly enough blood. ANY advice for better, easier poking would be much appreciated.


Thank you guys so much for any help you can give. I really appreciate it!

 

[FurBabiesMama]

Welcome! The Science Diet m/d dry food is too high in carbs. I actually have some on hand that I have used a bit of when Mia's glucose dropped. It is a sure bet to raise her glucose level so not something I would be feeding my diabetic cat regularly by any means. If you have to have a dry food, there are better options. There is Dr Elsey's Clean Protein which is about 5% carbs and Young Again Zero mature which has only trace carbs. I recommend the Dr. E's over the YA because the YA has been known to cause soft, stinky poop, and some of the ingredients seem a bit questionable to me.

Wet food is best for any cat. It tends to be lower in carbs, but that is not the only reason by any means. For one thing, cats need lots of moisture in their food for the health of their kidneys. Please visit Dr Pierson's site catinfo.org for info on feline nutrition and the dangers of dry food. It also has tips for transitioning kibble addicts to wet food. Also, here is a post that Dr P had on this site: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...r-more-than-just-carbohydrate-content.175004/ It really is possible to transition to wet food.. not easy, but possible.

Food should be withheld for two hours prior to the pre-insulin-shot glucose test so that the results are not impacted by food (so you can confirm that it is safe to give the planned dose). Other than that, it is fine to have food available. I feed my girls wet food 4 times every day and leftovers are left out for grazing.

Have you tried heating up the ear before poking? That really helps. Some people use a sock filled with rice that they microwave. I wet the corner of a washcloth with very hot tap water, wring out the excess, then hold that on Mia's ear for a few seconds before I poke. I then use it to apply light pressure to the spot and clean it up. Make sure your lancets are not too small.... 28 gauge is a good size. The more poking you do, the easier the blood will come.

Regarding the dose.. you just started giving the insulin 7/22. It is best to give a dose at least a couple of days before making a change. Also, if you can change him to a lower carb food, that is most likely going to have a big impact on his glucose levels, so you would not want to have him on too large of a dose when you do that... and you want to monitor when you do that to make sure he stays safe. Feel free to post on the ProZinc forum for dosing advice. Good job on getting a spreadsheet going! It would help if you could also add a signature: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/

 

[JanetNJ]

Hey everybody, I'm new here but not new to feline diabetes -- 15 years ago my Sweetie kitty lived with diabetes for 2.5 years. However it's been so long that I've forgotten most of what I knew, and now I'm struggling to make things work with my newly diagnosed boycat Everest (in my picture).

Some quick points about Everest (and his flatmates):

• 9 years old
• 14 lbs (rapid weight loss from his usual 18 lbs)
• Handsomest mancat that ever did live
• Diagnosed July 2018 at BG 350
• Started Prozinc 7/22/18 at 1.5 units in U40s
• Shares a home and food bowls with Mama (his actual mom) and sister/lover/"we're just friends" Miss Kitty
• Everyone eats dry Science Diet m/d
• None of these dumb cats will eat pâté no matter how hungry they are (incidentally, m/d only comes wet as a pâté -- thanks kids)
• The only wet food they will eat are Soulistic pouches with gravy
• Everyone has free-fed their whole lives and they do not understand the concept of two mealtimes
• Even with food taken up after they eat, when given a meal they only eat a little bit and walk away

You can see his spreadsheet, which I just started, in my signature.

I'm looking for advice on a few things here if you have some time. First, his levels seem to be all over the place but always too high. Do you think his dosage should be adjusted? If so, to what, and should I do another curve?

Second, the whole food issue. Why is it such a strong recommendation that diabetics eat wet food? And can diabetes be managed with free-feeding? If not... How do I get these kids to understand they only get to eat twice a day? They just don't ever seem that hungry.

And last but not least, this poor kid's ears are practically perforated at this point. I'm bad at hitting the capillaries in his ear and I'm going through test strips like crazy (AlphaTrak) because I can't seem to get enough blood on it before it goes to sleep, and then the strip is wasted. Poking his little toe beans doesn't get nearly enough blood. ANY advice for better, easier poking would be much appreciated.


Thank you guys so much for any help you can give. I really appreciate it!

You don't want to aim for the vein. Go for the outer edge. If you aren't already, use a 26 or 28 gauge lancets. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home. A little neosporin on the ear can help them heal. Don't push the strip in all the way until you see a drop.

 

[JeanW]

You don't want to aim for the vein. Go for the outer edge. If you aren't already, use a 26 or 28 gauge lancets. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home. A little neosporin on the ear can help them heal. Don't push the strip in all the way until you see a drop.

It helps me to poke at the very outside edge of the ear almost - but not quite - to the point where you're poking on the underside of the ear.

 

[unscented_seahorse]

Thank you! I had been going for the vein/capillaries, so going for the outside edge of the ear this last time was super helpful.

Any suggestions for free-feeding vs mealtimes would be ideal, I'm wondering if that's why his glucose is all over the map. He was 452 the last time I measured, and I feel bad because that was 14 hours after his last shot -- he wouldn't eat when I put food down, I had to wait 2 whole hours before he touched it! Aaahhhhhhhh!!!!

 

[Tiger and the squid]

Thank you! I had been going for the vein/capillaries, so going for the outside edge of the ear this last time was super helpful.

Any suggestions for free-feeding vs mealtimes would be ideal, I'm wondering if that's why his glucose is all over the map. He was 452 the last time I measured, and I feel bad because that was 14 hours after his last shot -- he wouldn't eat when I put food down, I had to wait 2 whole hours before he touched it! Aaahhhhhhhh!!!!

First of all Everest is obvisouly perfect and I refuse to believe he would make anything difficult ever. Look at him.

Regarding the free feeding, maybe you just need to find a different brand of wet food that they like? I'll typically buy two of each and see what happens. I dont have too much advice because while my babies have always free fed, they also have zero problem with the wet food. Other than having to wait for it sometimes and not really being able to graze.

I'm still pretty new to all of this but i wish you and Everest all of the luck in the world.

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank you! I had been going for the vein/capillaries, so going for the outside edge of the ear this last time was super helpful.

Any suggestions for free-feeding vs mealtimes would be ideal, I'm wondering if that's why his glucose is all over the map. He was 452 the last time I measured, and I feel bad because that was 14 hours after his last shot -- he wouldn't eat when I put food down, I had to wait 2 whole hours before he touched it! Aaahhhhhhhh!!!!

I feed fancy feast classic morning and evening and leave it out for them to graze on. I usually open a fresh can just before bedtime too, and leave a bit of young again zero carb food. Free feeding is fine but no food 2 hours prior to the preshot test so the number is not food influenced.

 

[JeanW]

I also free feed and it has been the best thing for Pretty Girl. As everyone else has said, pick up the food 2 hours before testing.

 

[HereKittyKittyKitty]

Are you using a cotton ball? I found out the hard way when I ran out once how important/critical this is.

I've been using the micro 33 gauge Relion lancets... not what is recommended here, but I haven't collapsed/torn any itsy bitsy teeny weeny little poked capillaries.. and it seems easier for subsequent tests. No swiss cheese effect on the ears...

I free feed a different flavor 9 Lives pate 3 times a day. Some zero-carb freeze-dried meat dog treats as an after-test reward/before-feeding appetizer helps a lot... my cat eats more canned food, keeps his weight up, and doesn't go around the house crying from hunger.