? I just received Nestle/Purina Nutrition charts for FF. Can someone post them in the right place??

Status
Not open for further replies.
Keeper of the fur!

Keeper of the fur!

Member Since 2018
Wow, who knew I was going to be getting a crash course in diabetes... For my cat! He's been in my life since he was a few weeks old so there wasn't any thinking involved about a month ago when my friend the Vet, said he's sick. So thankfully this forum was easy to find because I need help.

Honestly, friend that she is, I'm finding myself second guessing her method of treating him. A 3 unit dosage of basaglar(Lantus), 2 times per day, and no BG testing done by me. Change his food to royal Canin for diabetes ... And said come back in 2-3 weeks and we'll check his blood.

Well, I went that route and within a few days of giving him insulin, I thought I saw him experiencing unbalance and she said drop the units given back to 2. For the next couple of weeks, he continued drinking and peeing.

Next was the first check up, to hear I would hear back in a few days the fructosamin test results. I asked her, (not really knowing what tyat test would show) can't we get a level now? Why do I have to wait? She said sure, came back in to the room and said his BG as high at 501, but that she didn't want me to increase the units I give him, until the lab results come back.

This was all seeming like I was dragging my already aged arthritic poor cat through the weeds with even more time to wait for more results when we know he's still not being helped by the insulin he's getting and his kidneys are working their butts off and I'm losing my mind because he's peeing outside of the catbox 3-4 times per day.

I get the call that I need to increase the units up to 3 twice per day, get comfortable with the combo of foods I'm going to feed him, then come back in a few weeks again for the fructosamin test again. But again in the meantime, PD is probably having undo degradation of his whole system because I'm burning daylight for yet another test in weeks.

The other day, I spent the whole day with someone I know and shared my story about PD and he chimed in with 50 years of experience with his own diabetes I didn't know he had. He told me I needed to hpget a glucose meter and start testing PD and chart things to get him on track. I'm feeling better that I was t thinking incorrectly and knew I needed to do more.

Which brings me to all of you. Is there anyone that can give me some pointers as to where I start? I am searching Amazon for a meter, but what do I look for? What words to I look for in the descriptions that confirms its what I need to buy?

Let's start here with this question... There will be many more after I get that one answered I'm sure.

Thanks for listening. My heart is so heavy. I'm hoping I can keep him around for many years yet and that in my inexperience and blind faith in my vet friend, that I haven't already messed him up more by all this additional waiting I'm doing in between her tests.
 
Hi and welcome to you both to FDMB!:)
The diagnosis of feline diabetes (FD) is scary and stressful in the beginning ....we have all been there and understand......but you have done a wonderful thing for your kitty reaching out for help. You have come to the right place. There are many very experienced people here who have FD kitties who look after them 24/7 and who can help and support you through this journey of FD.

Your diabetic friend is right. You need to be testing the blood sugar levels (BSL) before every insulin shot and also about 5 to 6 hours after the shot (+5or +6) to see how low the insulin is taking your kitty (the nadir).
You can buy a good human meter from Walmart. It is called the Relion. There are two types that I know of that are suitable. I do not live in the US but in Australia so can't give you more detailed info on the meters but I have seen them recommended a lot. You can also get the test strips for the meters there as a reasonable price.

If your cat was unbalanced, his BSL was probably too low which can be fatal so testing your cat is the best thing you can do for him to keep him safe. Make sure you have some honey in the house in case of very low blood sugars.
Here is a link to how to treat hypos
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

Below is a link to US canned / wet food that is suitable for FD cats. There is no need to buy expensive prescription food that the vet recommends. The food needs to be canned, definitely not dry, and low carbohydrate under 10%.
https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Here is a link to testing the BSL
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Here is a link to our spreadsheet (SS) where you can document all the BSLs. We will be by happy to help you with dosing advice once you have the SS up and running. If you have trouble setting it up...I did... yell and we will help you.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

If you have any more questions I would recommend posting on the lantus page where there are many more people who all use Lantus or levemir insulin and will help and support you.
Keep asking lots of questions. It is a steep learning curve in the beginning but it gets much easier!:)
 
Welcome! Testing at home is the best way to find the best dose and to keep your cat safe!

You have two choices with meters.

1. You can get a pet specific meter called an Alphatrak. The advantage is the numbers will be the same your vet gets. It's very accurate.
The con is that the strips are very expensive and many find the cost prohibitive.
2. You can use a human meter. Most on the board choose this option because the strips are very affordable. A common choice is Walmart brand Relion micro or confirm.
If you choose this go to Walmart.
You will need

1. Relion micro or confirm meter
2. Box of 100 extra test strips
3. Box of 100 26 or 28 gauge lancets
4. Cotton cosmetic rounds
5. Neosporin ointment with pain relief

Fortunately your friend gave your a good insulin, but clearly doesn't know how to dose.

Here's a link to our lantus forum section. Please read the yellow posts at the top. There are descriptions of two dosing protocols.... Tr (tight regulation) and SLGS (START LOW GO SLOW). Read them and see which is a better fit for you

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/


I have a link to a video I made in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.
 
@Keeper of the fur! Welcome. Your diabetic friend is correct. Normally you do NOT start insulin at 3 units. It sounds as if it was definitely to much. You are here now, and you can help sweetie feel better by home testing and getting the correct dose she needs. It won't happen overnight but it will happen.
 
Welcome, you have indeed come to the right place. It is a steep learning curve at first, but you will be surprised how quickly you will learn, Many of us use the Relion Confirm or Micro meters, because they require very little blood, and the test strips are affordable and available. Also, many of us feed Fancy Feast Classics and Friskies pate. These are low carb wet foods and transition to them will lower the blood sugar, so testing is important. The information is here, the help and support is here.
 
Welcome! It's a lot to learn at first. Try to hang in there. It gets easier and, as you see your kitteh starting to feel better, that really does make it all worth while.
 
Good morning everyone, sorry for my silence after your wonderful replies, enter in my work schedule. I do work out of my home, but have to leave for 8 hours occasionally to visit with my clients. But my mission today is to source one of the Relion meters and that great shopping list JanetNJ provided! I can't say I'm surprised that there are so many great links to help me. I am a bit overwhelmed but will study them over and over. And that there is a Lantus specific one, gives me great confidence in the insulin I've got.

This morning, Sweetie PD (for Plop Down kitty) is ravenous and thirsty again. Though it seems his peeing has slowed and quantity lessened some, but here I go... Only guessing. So I can't wait until I can actually touch and feel the actual data results of what's happening to his body. I'm in Engineering, so my motto has always been, "If you aren't measuring, your practicing." so this rule now applies to my animal kingdom!

Regarding food, do all of you NOT feed dry diabetic prescription food like the Royal Canin Glycobalance I've been feeding...ONLY wet food? Why? Are there too many bad things in dry? I've been letting him free feed on the dry (he doesn't gorge) and then morning and night, 1/4 can Friskees Pate with 2-3 tablespoons of warm water. What say all of you?

Thanks everyone for your kind words. Stay tuned, I'm going to do some studying, get my pharmaceuticals and do my first test and reading on my soon-to-be chart. Wish me luck, I hope he won't hate me for pricking his ear. I will study that testing video like a hawk!
 
There is a lot to learn at first. Just keep working on it and you'll get there.

Dry food is higher in carbohydrate, so it's not really the best option for a sugar kitty. Cleo loves canned food, so it's not a struggle for us to keep her on her new diet. My other cat still eats kibble and Cleo doesn't bother with it, unless her dish is empty or she is unhappy with the canned food I have offered her. Then she will go to my other cat's dish and eat kibble at me. She knows that I don't want her eating dry food and that is how she tries to get me to give her canned food. That works for her, so I guess we have trained each other.
 
Yes, PD Loves canned food as well. Do you give your cat a certain amount? What are you feeding? I have fed Friskies Pate as a "Treat" for years now only giving him 1/4 can morning and evening as an event for him. Pate only because he has no top front teeth and can't pick up shreds or other chunky types of canned foods. Couldn't use the Prescription Royal Canin canned, because it's only available in the chunky/gravy style. So turning PD on to canned food only, won't be tough. But my vet did tell me that she would prefer me to feed the FancyFeast (FF) over friskies because the Phosphorus is lower in the FF. She wants me to shoot for around 200 for Phos, 10 or below on Carbs, 30 on Protein and a number I can't remember, on Fat. Do you folks look at the readings this way as well? What are the numbers that work for you all?

What are you feeding, and How much? I have to stay with 2 feedings a day with my schedule, and Friskie's can's are larger than FF, so I'm not certain what I should be feeding him how that I need to consider cutting out the dry food too now. Man my head hurts.
 
Cleo gets four meals per day. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, and bedtime. I let the cats eat as much as they want. They are a couple of scrawny, old kittehs and I'd be happy for them to gain some weight. We go through 3 or 4 little cans per day. Cleo eats most of that. My other cat still eats kibble.

Until recently, Cleo was eating Fancy Feast Classic Pate. That was always her "treat" food before her diabetes diagnosis, so she was happy with that. The recipes for Fancy Feast changed though. She doesn't mind, but the new formula makes my other cat vomit. Fancy Feast is still a good food, just not for us now. We are currently looking for a new food that both cats like and can eat. Right now, Red Barn lamb and Wellness beef and chicken seem to be working for us. Cleo likes a lot of variety in her diet, so I need to find different things she can eat. My cats have various allergies and sensitivities, so finding a new food is a challenge. Pates tend to be lower in carbs and it's what Cleo prefers, so we are limiting our taste tests to that.
 
Hi All, I've been reviewing all of your spreadsheets and was wondering if you'd share some interpretation of it then all share with me what your acronyms mean that you are using in your remarks section? What do they mean on the sheet's cells themselves? Are the numbers like 1+, 3+ 4+ all the time of day? And the AMPS and PMPS something for am and pm? What does the PS part stand for? Or is all of this easily explained if I actually start the sheet for myself?
 
Keeper of the fur! said:
But my vet did tell me that she would prefer me to feed the FancyFeast (FF) over friskies because the Phosphorus is lower in the FF.
Click to expand...
that's not correct. In most FF pates the Phosphorous content is in high 400 whilst Friskies Classic Pates are in 300s. None of course are ideal.
I attached below Dr. Pierson chart - as you vet said anything below 10% carbs is suitable for diabetics.
Keeper of the fur! said:
She wants me to shoot for around 200 for Phos, 10 or below on Carbs, 30 on Protein and a number I can't remember, on Fat
Click to expand...
I disagree with that...cats do well on fatty diets but Dr. Pierson recommends fats in the range of 30% and proteins in 60%. Some kidney conditions require lower protein but otherwise high protein is better than high fat.
HERE is link to hDr. Pierson blog.
She explains in great details the grievous consequences of feeding cats dry food.
It is bad not only because of high carbs but because of mold, fungi and bacteria found in many dry and dry food causes very painful urinary track problems of all sorts.
Keeper of the fur! said:
What are you feeding, and How much? I have to stay with 2 feedings a day with my schedule,
Click to expand...
it is best for diabetics o eat smaller portions more frequently v. 2 large portions a day.
People who have to leave their house for longer hours use autofeeders, or simply freeze a portion of pate w/ extra water into a cube and leave it out. In a few hours the cube thaws and there is something to eat for the cat (plus extra water - always good for cats!)

I feed my cat 2 2.8 oz cans in 24 h. It divided by 2 - 3 teaspoons portions at a time and gets to eat at preshots, and then 1 and 2 hours later. I add a teaspoon of water per teaspoon of solid food.
@Keeper of the fur!
 

Attachments

Keeper of the fur! said:
Hi All, I've been reviewing all of your spreadsheets and was wondering if you'd share some interpretation of it then all share with me what your acronyms mean that you are using in your remarks section? What do they mean on the sheet's cells themselves? Are the numbers like 1+, 3+ 4+ all the time of day? And the AMPS and PMPS something for am and pm? What does the PS part stand for? Or is all of this easily explained if I actually start the sheet for myself?
Click to expand...
Maybe this would help: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

AMPS = AM pre-shot
PMPS = PM pre-shot
+1, +2, +3, etc are hours since the shot
 
Good morning! It would be helpful if you moved into the Main Forum and get more eyes on your questions and concerns.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/feline-health-the-main-forum.28/

In order to link this thread to a new thread in Main Forum, just highlight the URL at the top of the screen, copy, select the "link" symbol, and paste into the URL: window.

In the first response to your original post, Bron & Sheba provided links to the signature, spreadsheet and a chart of canned foods. I saved that chart of food on my Kindle as a PDF, and took it with me to the store so I could compare what was available on the shelves. We use Fancy Feast classics and Friskies pates. I also cook chicken breast and make chicken bone broth that I share with Idjit. When we eliminated dry food, with only a month of insulin support Idjit went into remission. No promises this will happen to you, we were extremely surprised. Be sure to monitor BG, the all low carb diet lowers BG.
 
I was wondering if I was in the right place commenting! Sorry... I'm feeling a little out of place yet! Thanks for all your great replies.. I'm shocked at the response already and hoping to absorb all this! I'm wondering what the "Link" symbol is you speak of to move this thread? Is that something on the FD page, or on my computer screen somewhere (sorry, I'm an old dog you are teaching tricks to).

YES... I'm printing off everything and starting an indexed binder in order for me to have a couch encyclopedia to flip back and forth through to get all of this through my head. I'm going locally to purchase a meter today with strips, and smaller needles as the first ones I got for my pens, were 12mm long and I feel like I'm invading PD terribly too much. So I'll be getting 4mm pen needles today. That will take much anxiety off me when giving the shots, though he doesn't complain at all.
 
You are not wrong at all! Please don't feel that. Do you see the line above the window where you post? The B, I, U etc? It's the connected chain link symbol, the 6th symbol from the left. Hey, don't sweat that, it took me forever to figure out how to do that, and I'm not always successful. You are doing great!:p
 
Yes, you did it, now go back into that first post and edit it, ask a question, let's get this going. You are terrific!
 
Welcome!! I'm pretty new here ( one month in) so I don't have much advice about dosing or things of that matter, but I can tell you that finding this message board is the best thing that could happen under these circumstances. The people on here know of what they speak and have talked and coached me through some serious panic attacks. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. It's scary and overwhelming and you have to keep believing that you're doing the best for your fur baby AND trust that he knows it, too. Help is a thread away, it really is!
 
Hi All, a few weeks back I emailed Nestles/Purina company (who makes Fancy Feast) and I just received in the mail 9 pages of all Fancy Feast canned varieties nutritional composition charts. That was kind of them. I need help from someone to upload this file to the right place so that it is accessible to everyone, not just someone that would happen upon my forum thread.

I've uploaded it on this thread, so if anyone reads this and knows of a great place on this site to put it, would you please do that so everyone has access to it? That would be great! I know I was struggling trying to find all this info about foods calories, carbs, proteins, phosphorus, and fats all in one location and now here it is for FF!

The update on my Sweetie PD's health, is that he's doing SOOO GREAT! My vet says last night that we caught his Diabetes in time and he hasn't had a shot for 3 days now! She is very happy that he is staying between 85 - 140 on a daily basis. She wants him a little "Sweeter" she said so he has something to go on if his BG does take a little nose time here and there! So I'm crossing my fingers that he's going to be fine under my watchful eyes! I haven't updated his SS for a few days now, but I will soon for all to see.

He's bright-eyed, friskie... is complaining like a brat.. following me around like a dog and wants to go outside again with a "fur"-ver... so he's feeling great for almost 17 yrs old!! And... I'm feeling great because I'm not A SLAVE to his catbox's anymore!! YEAH!! He's actually going Pee&Poop IN them properly again.. !!!

So everyone who may read this who is down in the dumps like I've been on this journey, don't lose hope on your furbabies because great things can happen if you catch this disease soon enough! The faster you get your kitties on low carb canned food the better. He's just on Canned Classic Fancy Feast, with some occasional Royal Canin Glycobalance (Lower carb dry kibble) just as a crunchy food for him if his BG numbers are low enough to handle a few more carbs. He likes to crunch too... :)
 

Attachments

Keeper of the fur! said:
Hi All, a few weeks back I emailed Nestles/Purina company (who makes Fancy Feast) and I just received in the mail 9 pages of all Fancy Feast canned varieties nutritional composition charts. That was kind of them. I need help from someone to upload this file to the right place so that it is accessible to everyone, not just someone that would happen upon my forum thread.

I've uploaded it on this thread, so if anyone reads this and knows of a great place on this site to put it, would you please do that so everyone has access to it? That would be great! I know I was struggling trying to find all this info about foods calories, carbs, proteins, phosphorus, and fats all in one location and now here it is for FF!

The update on my Sweetie PD's health, is that he's doing SOOO GREAT! My vet says last night that we caught his Diabetes in time and he hasn't had a shot for 3 days now! She is very happy that he is staying between 85 - 140 on a daily basis. She wants him a little "Sweeter" she said so he has something to go on if his BG does take a little nose time here and there! So I'm crossing my fingers that he's going to be fine under my watchful eyes! I haven't updated his SS for a few days now, but I will soon for all to see.

He's bright-eyed, friskie... is complaining like a brat.. following me around like a dog and wants to go outside again with a "fur"-ver... so he's feeling great for almost 17 yrs old!! And... I'm feeling great because I'm not A SLAVE to his catbox's anymore!! YEAH!! He's actually going Pee&Poop IN them properly again.. !!!

So everyone who may read this who is down in the dumps like I've been on this journey, don't lose hope on your furbabies because great things can happen if you catch this disease soon enough! The faster you get your kitties on low carb canned food the better. He's just on Canned Classic Fancy Feast, with some occasional Royal Canin Glycobalance (Lower carb dry kibble) just as a crunchy food for him if his BG numbers are low enough to handle a few more carbs. He likes to crunch too... :)
Click to expand...
Great news!!!!!
 
:kiss: Thanks!!! It's wonderful hugging him and schmooching on him now with so much less worry!! I'm not going to say that he's OTJ yet.... but I'm hoping to say that soon! I'm not certain the length of time that would qualify for OTJ!!
 
Keeper of the fur! said:
:kiss: Thanks!!! It's wonderful hugging him and schmooching on him now with so much less worry!! I'm not going to say that he's OTJ yet.... but I'm hoping to say that soon! I'm not certain the length of time that would qualify for OTJ!!
Click to expand...
Well I’m 8 days into my OTJ trial. It last 14 days...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top