? Pill Popper techniques?

[shelaghc]

I have a full month of giving Jester big blue pills and he isn't a happy pill taker.

My equipment currently is a "cat in the bag" to hold him still

https://www.cat-in-the-bag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/LightBlueEZ.png

and a "pill popper."

https://www.valleyvet.com/swatches/13445_L_vvs_000.jpg

I hold him on my lap in the cat in the bag with him facing me, try to pry open his mouth with one hand and attempt to push the pill popper in with the other.

It took over ten traumatic minutes to give him the first of those pills this morning with the first pill vanishing somewhere on the floor before I was finally successful.

I would dearly love some advice and/or a good non-veterinarian created video on how to make this a less traumatic experience for both of us.

It's hard enough having to get up an hour earlier than the early morning that my system isn't geared for and then make poor Jester wait an extra hour before feeding him. An entire month of this is going to make him hate me - and I'm going to hate myself too.....

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

I have to give Callie pills daily. I scruff her just below the back of her head. She usually meows then and I put the pill gun in her mouth and shoot it to the back of the throat. This is less stressful for her and after it is over she immediately forgives me

 

[shelaghc]

I have to give Callie pills daily. I scruff her just below the back of her head. She usually meows then and I put the pill gun in her mouth and shoot it to the back of the throat. This is less stressful for her and after it is over she immediately forgives me

Jester doesn't meow when I do that.
:-<

 

[Lillie]

The dreaded pill popping! I've never been lucky enough to have a cat that was easy to pill. I always resort to compounding pet meds that are either liguid, transdermal, or made into compressed tiny tabs. Sometimes I have cut the pills in half because I found that the smaller the size the easier it was for them to swallow even if I had to pill them a second time. One of my cat's meds I pulverize and sprinkle on top of a small amount of food. (if it's possible he can take with food). It works well with my cat especially if I sprinkle a little Forti Flora to mask the taste.

 

[shelaghc]

The dreaded pill popping! I've never been lucky enough to have a cat that was easy to pill. I always resort to compounding pet meds that are either liguid, transdermal, or made into compressed tiny tabs. Sometimes I have cut the pills in half because I found that the smaller the size the easier it was for them to swallow even if I had to pill them a second time. One of my cat's meds I pulverize and sprinkle on top of a small amount of food. (if it's possible he can take with food). It works well with my cat especially if I sprinkle a little Forti Flora to mask the taste.

Not possible with these meds. It can't be crushed or it loses its effectiveness.

It's Denamarin for his liver. Has to be taken at least an hour before food and on an empty stomach too.

 

[Lillie]

Oh- too bad. They may make a transdermal form of this med so you could put it on the inside of his ear.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Not possible with these meds. It can't be crushed or it loses its effectiveness.

It's Denamarin for his liver. Has to be taken at least an hour before food and on an empty stomach too.

Hi ,
I have posted Yesterday for you and I did read the responses thereafter.

Listen,

if you are looking to either give the pill as whole or to skip giving it altogether then please think about it again.

Yes, obviously(now) that breaking the Denamarin pill will reduce it's effectiveness but if the alternative you are contemplating is to skip all together then, please, break the pill and administer it in it's non - ideal form.
It is better to get some than nothing.
Some healing will occur even if the dose was administered in a wrong fashion. IMHO only, surely.

The Denamarin Ducia had been given in Feb 2017 was a large round shaped pill, covered with thick glazed layer of blue colour substance that loudly cracked in the crusher.

I got it - that blue layer was necessary due to where the med is to be absorbed in the GI system/ to control the absorption timing, I got it.

But the size of that pill was like an Irish knitted cardigan button,too large for any cat. More like suitable for a dog sizes ranging from German Shep to a Spaniel, bot not a cat (in my understanding anyway).

But again - it was a year ago, they might have started making smaller pills by now. As @Jill & Alex (GA) posted yesterday - the pill is small. Perhaps they changed the pill name.

What I was saying is that (In My Humblest Opinion) - if you cannot give the whole pill - break it and keep the administering pill schedule going.

 

[shelaghc]

@Marje and Gracie - any insights on giving pills? You have experience with giving Denamarin, yes?

 

[shelaghc]

if you are looking to either give the pill as whole or to skip giving it altogether then please think about it again.

Where on earth did you get the idea that I'm planning to skip giving Jester his Denamarin?

That's what this whole thread is about - learning how to give it to him with as little trauma as possible.

But again - it was a year ago, they might have started making smaller pills by now. As @Jill & Alex (GA) posted yesterday - the pill is small. Perhaps they changed the pill name.

The pill is not small at all. It's big and blue.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Where on earth did you get the idea that I'm planning to skip giving Jester his Denamarin?

I got that idea that you felt it was impossible to give an uncrushed pill to him from you r post #7 here http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/opinions-about-denamarin.197943/

Little? Seriously?!

This is the biggest pill I've ever had to give him. I'm actually afraid it could choke him.

As well as from this:

It took over ten traumatic minutes to give him the first of those pills this morning with the first pill vanishing somewhere on the floor before I was finally successful.

Was it wrong? I apologize...After all only ten traumatic minutes a day isn't bad at all.

Wish you every luck with piling an unwilling cat with too large of a pill to be pushed down his throat.
Was he prescribed it for 30 days, you said?


Looking forward to read of his (presumed) recovery.

Where on earth did you get the idea that I'm planning to skip giving Jester his Denamarin?

That's what this whole thread is about - learning how to give it to him with as little trauma as possible.

has any one on that whole tread ever mention that you need to grease either the pill or the agent the pill is given inside of?
Hope they did.
@shelaghc

 

[Becky & Baby Girl GA]

My vet showed me how to hold Baby’s muzzle open with thumb & middle finger stuck behind the tooth row, (hand on top of head) press down the front teeth with mid or ring finger with pill hand. Place the pill in the back of the tongue with first finger & thumb. Immediately lift her head up, stroking downward on the throat, or blow in her face if she won’t swallow. So hard to explain this! Yes I absolutely hate it! She hates it & it all makes me crazy!!! I follow with a syringe of water to wash it down. I do this very swiftly & have my water syringe next to me. She is on the floor & I’m over top of her, coming in from the side.... I hope this makes sense to you. Best wishes!

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

Some cats cannot be pilled...end of story. If we can all poke holes in a cat twice a day it's not the trauma or a weak stomach, it just aint gonna happen.
When Marco has UTI he needs to go in for antibiotic shots. He cannot be pilled and it's not me.
Moving forward. The blue layer is time release yes? Is it an absolute total loss if it's crushed?
"Take on an empty stomach". If it's crushed (mortar and pestle?) and combined with a few grams of wet food as in syringe feeding is that not better than nothing at all?

I'm actually afraid it could choke him

I've been there Tanya, really had to wonder what someone was thinking.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

Yes, obviously(now) that breaking the Denamarin pill will reduce it's effectiveness but if the alternative you are contemplating is to skip all together then, please, break the pill and administer it in it's non - ideal form.
It is better to get some than nothing.
Some healing will occur even if the dose was administered in a wrong fashion. IMHO only, surely.

I agree. Years ago Cheryl/Winnie was having trouble administering Denamarin to one of her cats... can't remember if it was Winnie or one of her others.

Long story short, Cheryl called the manufacturer to ask about crushing or cutting the pill. Obviously, their response was not to cut or crush the pill, BUT they did say exactly what Tanya said, "It's better to give something than nothing." The conversation at the time centered around losing about 30% effectiveness when cut or crushed. I don't recall if that estimation came from the manufacturer or was the outcome of the conversation had on the FDMB.

I'm really confused. This is the Denamarin I gave Alex: https://www.amazon.com/Nutramax-Den...ount/dp/B0011XHGQ6/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20. It was a small blue pill. Very easy to pill. If I set my screen to 110% magnification, the pill was about the same size as this smile: . Maybe my idea of a small pill differs from others...

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

When I Google "Denamarin for cats" I get this and the pop-up menu about 3 rows down
https://www.google.ca/search?ei=MDV.......0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.nT0xuqc0pRY
This is the pop-up
What does Denamarin do for a cat?
"Denamarin Tablets are a nutritional supplement containing the antioxidant Silybin used to improve your pet's liver function by increasing liver glutathione levels".
When I Googled glutathione I did get a hit (an ad) for a transdermal alternate.
https://custommedicine.com.au/health-articles/glutathione/

 

[shelaghc]

When I Google "Denamarin for cats" I get this and the pop-up menu about 3 rows down
https://www.google.ca/search?ei=MDVBW5qHEovejwThj4CwCw&q=Denamarin for cats&oq=Denamarin for cats&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.1776.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1c..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.nT0xuqc0pRY
This is the pop-up
What does Denamarin do for a cat?
"Denamarin Tablets are a nutritional supplement containing the antioxidant Silybin used to improve your pet's liver function by increasing liver glutathione levels".
When I Googled glutathione I did get a hit (an ad) for a transdermal alternate.
https://custommedicine.com.au/health-articles/glutathione/

I did a google on Denamarin "transdermal" and got zip.

Getting back to my original question, a video of someone that's not a vet pilling a cat would be very helpful, I haven't been able to find one.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

Getting back to my original question, a video of someone that's not a vet pilling a cat would be very helpful, I haven't been able to find one.

I just did a quick Google search for "pilling a cat video". A few who were not vets came up on the search.

 

[shelaghc]

I just did a quick Google search for "pilling a cat video". A few who were not vets came up on the search.

Can you share a couple of links? All I found were from vets' offices. I'd rather see someone who doesn't have an examination table at their disposal.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

@Marje and Gracie - any insights on giving pills? You have experience with giving Denamarin, yes?

As Lillie does, if I could have a med compounded to avoid pilling, I did. Having said that, I did have to pill Gracie with denamarin. You want to be absolutely sure that you first give some liquid or food to moisten the esophagus even before you pill. And you absolutely want to be sure you chase it with moist food/liquid after you pill. I pilled like they show at the vet and I never had an issue with any of my cats...they were very easy.

Here are some tips from Dr. Becker.

Here’s a nonvet youtube on pilling a cat.
Here’s another youtube video.
Another which is entertaining and might work for some cats. It’s worth trying but some cats aren’t fooled.
Here’s one with a pill popper.

I hope those help.

 

[shelaghc]

You want to be absolutely sure that you first give some liquid or food to moisten the esophagus even before you pill. And you absolutely want to be sure you chase it with moist food/liquid after you pill.

The instructions both from the vet and on the package state no food before - full overnight fasting - and no food for at least an hour after.
And Jester is just as hard to give liquids via syringe as he is pills.

Thank you for the vids. I'll check them out.

 

[shelaghc]

Here’s a nonvet youtube on pilling a cat.
Here’s another youtube video.
Another which is entertaining and might work for some cats. It’s worth trying but some cats aren’t fooled.
Here’s one with a pill popper.

I hope those help.

They did! Yesterday's pilling took over ten minutes and both Jester and I were wrecks after it was over.

This morning, it took less than five minutes including coaxing Jester into the bathroom and cleaning the popper afterward. He seemed a little indignant, but nothing at all like yesterday's trauma.
I was even able to take a little nap before our regular morning routine.

Thank you so much!

 

[Noah & me (GA)]

@shelaghc My smartass comments in post 12 were not directed at you. That was the frustration of 40 years of recently graduated techs showing me what I already knew. Andy cheeks them and Marco gets so stressed his eyes roll back in his head.
What has worked for me in extreme cases is getting on my knees, cat between my knees, scruff the cat and rub under the chin, then the pill gun. Holding the mouth closed is no fun and stressful for cat so that is accompanied by nose rubs and ear pulls. I'm looking at the same YouTubes as you, they're all the same and no help whatsoever.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

The instructions both from the vet and on the package state no food before - full overnight fasting - and no food for at least an hour after.
And Jester is just as hard to give liquids via syringe as he is pills.

Thank you for the vids. I'll check them out.

We aren’t talking about a lot of food...just a very small amount to help get the pill down safely. If you prefer, just use chicken broth or other liquid before and after. But....if my kitty would take the pill in a bite of food instead of me struggling to pill him/her, so be it The relationship you want to have with your baby is not cramming a pill down his throat if you can do it an easier way.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

They did! Yesterday's pilling took over ten minutes and both Jester and I were wrecks after it was over.

This morning, it took less than five minutes including coaxing Jester into the bathroom and cleaning the popper afterward. He seemed a little indignant, but nothing at all like yesterday's trauma.
I was even able to take a little nap before our regular morning routine.

Thank you so much!

You’re welcome! Great news!