Rho not eating/drinking much, can't get blood sample - Update: eating and sample taken!!

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kimberbee

kimberbee

Member Since 2018
I joined the forum Friday (4 days ago) because my diabetic kitty wasn't eating as much as normal, and I also noticed there was less poop in his litterbox than normal.

I read around the forums, found some advice on wet food and home testing, and got to work over the weekend getting a few wet foods to try and purchasing a glucose meter.

Well, he's eating less and less each day - Friday he ate about half a 5.5oz can of wet food, today so far he's eaten maybe 1/8th to 1/4 can. He follows me to the kitchen when I grab his food bowl, and follows me back to the office where I put the bowl down. He acts interested, but then turns his nose up. I have 3 foods down for him (dry and two different wet foods) but he just kind of sits there looking at them, then leaves the room.

I also noticed today that he's not drinking much. Again he has plenty of water out - a fountain, his bowl, and the dog's water bowl (which I have seen him drink from).

Friday he weighed 16.2lbs, today he is down to 15.6. When he was diagnosed in March, he was just under 18lbs (but their method of weighing on a pet scale is different from my method of weighing the two of us together, then subtracting my weight).

I am wondering a few things -

a. Because he is not eating, I haven't been able to give him insulin consistently (maybe every 2nd-3rd dose I feel he's eaten enough to give him a partial dose for the past 4 or so days). I imagine this is going to be a problem. He just ate about a teaspoon of food, so I gave him a partial (2 units instead of 3) dose. Any suggestions on what I can try to get him to eat more or if there is an acceptable dose if he's not eating?

b. I have tried to get a blood sample from his ear. I've tried a total of 6 times over the past 2 days. I prick and barely anything, if anything comes out. The ONE time I got a good drop of blood, he shook his headand it went flying off (thanks, dude). I got the ReliOn tester and 26 gauge lancets. I'm warming up his ears by petting them (he loves that part), he really doesn't like to stay still for the prick, but I am able to prick, then there's just not enough blood. I've watched the videos, I've read tutorials. Is there another magic trick I can try to get a blood sample?

I also want to say that he's acting perfectly fine other than the not eating/drinking as much as normal. He has been in my care for over 10 years so I am familiar with his other habits (sleeping/activity level). When he was diagnosed in March, the only "symptom" I noticed was increased urination - he was not eating/drinking/sleeping/pooping more or less than normal. He has always been a big boy, weighing 15lbs when I first got him, and gradually getting a bit chunkier.

I'd like to avoid going to the vet if there are still some other things I can try. We recently moved to a new state, so I do not have a new vet and I have a feeling if I go to a new one they will want to perform labs all over again. Tomorrow is a holiday anyway, so I'd like to give it another day or two to maybe try something I hadn't thought of...
 
I'm considering not giving Rho any more insulin until I can get a reading at home - of course I'll try multiple times everyday. Reading more about the possibility of him going hypo is freaking me out a bit.

I did a search on the food he was on before all of this started (Beyond grain free chicken and egg) and it seems the carbs on that food were over 30%. The prescription food I switched him to (Science Diet m/d) is still high at 18%, though significantly lower than what he had been given. And now I'm trying to get him on wet food aiming for ones that are 10% carbs or less.

And then I remember what the dr had said at his third (and last) glucose curve visit... "Well we had him on 3 units last time and that wasn't enough. But today he got low and you'd been giving him 4 units. So try 3 or 3.5 and we'll see you in 6 months." It really didn't leave me feeling great, but I figured all would be fine...

I'm starting to wonder if the changes in diet I've made are effecting the diabetes, hopefully in a good way, and he doesn't need as much insulin as I'd been giving.

My question from above still stands regarding more tips on getting a blood sample because I'd really like to check up on him without the stress of trying to get to a new vet... can I prick a paw pad?
 
Hi there -- I am new, too, and so don't know much, but I too have been struggling with the ear pricks, and I've learned that "milking" the ear -- just sort of rubbing it on either side of where I pricked it -- can help the blood drop come out.

Good luck!!
 
Hi and welcome to the forum:)
It can be hard in the beginning, but you have come to the right place and the fact you are trying to test the blood sugars is great!
Have you tried warming the ear with some warmed rice in a sock (in the microwave but check the rice is only warm not hot) Hold it on the ear for a minute then try gently milking the ear up towards the tip a couple of times. Try giving Rho a small low carb treat as you are testing him to distract him. I can promise you, you will be able to do it...it just sometimes takes a few days to master and for the ear to bleed for you. I've never tried the paw, most people use the ear but a few do the paw.

If he is not drinking he could be a bit dehydrated. Are his gums wet or feel tacky, and when you lift up the scruff of his neck, does if fall back down quickly or go slowly?

If he is not eating he might be nauseated if he is coming up to the food but not eating it. He might need an antinausea medication from the vet such as cerenia and/or Zofran ( Ondansetron). There is a link to trying to get kitty to eat. I will try and find it and post it for you.

With the food try and only use wet/canned under 10% carb content. Any higher will raise the BSL (blood sugar levels) higher and are not good for the cat. It is not necessary to use prescription diets from the vet. A low carb diet will lower the BSL, that is why it is best to be testing the BSL, but most cats also need some insulin, at least for a while....a lot for the rest of their lives.
Stopping the insulin when he needs it can be risky and can lead to complications....... so can giving the insulin when he is not eating and not testing. So you really need to get things sorted out!
Are you testing the urine for ketones? If you are not giving much insulin and he is not eating, it would be a good idea to check them every couple of days. You can buy the Ketostix from the pharmacy...they are not expensive.
So I think you need to address the lack of appetite first so you can sort out the insulin and try to get a bit of success with the testing of the BSL
That way you will know where you stand with the BSL.
I have not used Prozinc so I can't help with that or the dosing of it, but there is a Prozinc forum here where they all use Prozinc. Here is the link....it would be good for you to post there and link this post if you can to the new post
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/

I think it would be a good idea to find a new vet if you have just moved. Try and find one who knows about feline diabetes. You can ask him about antinausea medications and also check for dehydration. Better to find one now and not wait until there is an emergency. Ask your old vet to fax over all Rho's test results to the new vet .....you paid for them and they belong to you.
@Rachel and @Djamila are you able to help this lady who has a kitty on Prozinc please?
 
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Aim for the sweet spot. Put the cotton behind the ear and poke with determination. Make sure the lancets that you are using are 26 or 28 gauge. The thin ones that come with a human meter are too thin for a cat in the beginning. Warm the ear first by rubbing it or with a warmed rice sock. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.
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My concern with no insulin is that he may develop ketones. No insulin + little food + high numbers is the recipe, and ketones can develop quickly and be deadly.

The other concern since he looks interested in food but turns away is nausea.... And that could be a sign of ketones or pancratitis.

You can get ketone reading strips at the pharmacy and check his urine.
 
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Thank you @Bron and Sheba and @JanetNJ.

I took some wet food, mixed with water, and brought it to him after he went to "bed" last night - like a midnight snack. He ate happily, not all of it, but enough I started feeling better. I left some out overnight and this morning it is almost all gone, so that should mean he had another late night or early morning snack.

@Bron and Sheba a few hours after I posted he drank from his bowl. Funny guy lays next to the bowl and hangs his head over to drink. He's been doing that for years, so I think he's just lazy! Thank you for the reminder on dehydration signs - I'll be sure to keep my eye out for them.

@JanetNJ I had seen your video and am sure I'm doing it "right" but there's just so little blood coming out. He does have thick, dark fur, and I read last night someone takes their sample from the inside of the ear where it's lighter colored. I will try that approach today.
 
Just got a reading... 106

Very happy right now. Just feel a bit bad that I did pierce the ear, there's blood on both sides. But he's purring from the pets and hasn't left my side.
 
kimberbee said:
Thank you @Bron and Sheba and @JanetNJ.

I took some wet food, mixed with water, and brought it to him after he went to "bed" last night - like a midnight snack. He ate happily, not all of it, but enough I started feeling better. I left some out overnight and this morning it is almost all gone, so that should mean he had another late night or early morning snack.

@Bron and Sheba a few hours after I posted he drank from his bowl. Funny guy lays next to the bowl and hangs his head over to drink. He's been doing that for years, so I think he's just lazy! Thank you for the reminder on dehydration signs - I'll be sure to keep my eye out for them.

@JanetNJ I had seen your video and am sure I'm doing it "right" but there's just so little blood coming out. He does have thick, dark fur, and I read last night someone takes their sample from the inside of the ear where it's lighter colored. I will try that approach today.
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it takes a few weeks for the blood to come out easier. you really don't need much though. Use whatever side of the ear is easiest... and don't worry about poking all the way through... I do it ALL the time. probably a third of the time. lol They really have very few nerve endings in the outter edge.
 
kimberbee said:
I did not give any insulin this morning, since I now know I should be testing before shooting!

His last shot was 2 units, 13 hours ago. I'll check again midday and again this evening.
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wow! Good thing you tested! 2 unts at 106 would probably have cause a big problem. I STRONGLY encourage you to lower your dose to 1 unit next time you have a shootable number.
 
Hi and welcome! So sorry I didn't see your post yesterday. I usually hang out on Prozinc and when Bron tagged me I was fast asleep. :)

That's an amazing reading for a kitty who hasn't had insulin! It's a great thing that you didn't give insulin on that number. For now, we would recommend no insulin if he's below 200. If you get a number close to that try stalling for 20 minutes without food and then retest if you can. That gives the number time to come up naturally to see if you can shoot.

I agree that it sounds like 2 units is too much. If you get a shootable number, I definitely wouldn't give more than 1 for now. If it's too little, we can work our way back up, but better too little than too much!

As for the testing, a little trick I used was 2 quick pokes next to each other. That made it easier to get the blood. If he's dehydrated, it may make the testing harder...do you add water to his food? It might help.

I rarely check out here since it's so easy to miss Prozinc posts in this long line of posts! So if you do post out here, feel free to tag me if you need. We'd also be happy to have you come post in Prozinc! A few more experienced eyes would be able to take a look that way.

You're doing great! We're glad you were able to find us!
 
@Rachel , @JanetNJ , @Bron and Sheba

Just tested again, 19 hours after his last shot and got 74. He did sneak off and eat his "lunch" about an hour before the reading.

Really starting to wonder, and hope, that all that was needed was a good change in diet. I will continue to check him every 6 hours, but don't plan on giving any insulin unless he goes high again. I am thinking shoot only if above 200, and start with .5 unit... since his number seem pretty ok so far today - thoughts?
 
I think that sounds like a good plan.

Sorry I was fast asleep last night as well, and like Rachel, I'm rarely out here on the Main forum unless someone tags me. If you have any questions about dosing, you're welcome to post in the Prozinc forum and might get more eyes on it that way.

My hunch is that you're right and Rho just needed a diet change to get back on track. Since he's been on insulin for a couple of months though, i would recommend that you keep testing for a while to make sure the numbers don't go back up. He's sure looking good with those numbers today!
 
PMPS @ 7pm is 152.

No insulin for 24 hours, and I think I'm done testing until the morning.

He's eaten today at 6am, 1130am, 530pm - still not as much as I think he should be eating, but probably about a half a can total. Usually he eats a bit overnight, so he should be ok.

Thanks to all for the suggestions and guidance. I'll check in again in a day or two to make sure Rho and I are still on track to keeping him healthy!!
 
Hang in there!! I'm pretty new as well and would have been so lost without the advice the people on here give so generously! I have questions pretty much daily...don't be afraid to ask. It's very comforting to know you are by no means alone!
 
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