Panic

[Jill & Jade]

ok... if anyone has a minute to check my girls SS, that would be great!! I’m in a panic over the rapid drop in a short time after the amps #.
I’m at work and am freaking out that I’m going to have a cat that is going hypo when I’m at work!! Help??
Thank yuh!!

 

[Beck and Philly]

I am by no means an experienced member of this group, but I see drops like this frequently with our readings. I would like the numbers to be more consistent, but don't panic too much. You aren't alone.

 

[Jill & Jade]

I am by no means an experienced member of this group, but I see drops like this frequently with our readings. I would like the numbers to be more consistent, but don't panic too much. You aren't alone.

Thank you! I’m so worried that she’s gonna keep dropping over the next few hours , I’m sick to my stomach.

 

[Beck and Philly]

Thank you! I’m so worried that she’s gonna keep dropping over the next few hours , I’m sick to my stomach.

Take a deep breath. If you look at Sheet 1 of Grandpa's spreadsheet, you'll see days even recently with 200 point drops. By dinner time he has leveled off or started curving up.

 

[Jill & Jade]

Take a deep breath. If you look at Sheet 1 of Grandpa's spreadsheet, you'll see days even recently with 200 point drops. By dinner time he has leveled off or started curving up.

Thanks!! Here’s my issue. Her BG went from 269 pre-shot to 140 in 3 hours. I’m at work now and worried that she’s going to continue to drop while I’m here. Then what? I go home to a dead cat? I’m so worried!!

 

[Callie & Patches]

IveI seen my Callie do that big a drop on several occasions. It happens to lots of cats without them going hypo. It looks to me she is where you want her to be. She has lots of room to drop before it becomes a problem.

 

[Jill & Jade]

IveI seen my Callie do that big a drop on several occasions. It happens to lots of cats without them going hypo. It looks to me she is where you want her to be. She has lots of room to drop before it becomes a problem.

Ok!! Thank you!!

 

[Jill & Jade]

Ok!! Thank you!!

So I shouldn’t worry about not being home for about 3 or 4 more hours??

 

[Sandi and Toby]

You don't really have enough mid-cycle data to be able to surmise what could be happening today, but if in doubt when you get a reading like that, especially early in your diabetes journey, before you leave the house then leave out some higher carb food. When their BG levels drop, they will automatically seek out food (assuming they aren't sick and not eating for some other reason).

I also see your SS note about being concerned that the +2.5 reading was higher. First, 304 and 306 are virtually the same -- meters are considered "acceptable" with even a 20% variance. Second, lantus doesn't normally onset (ie. "Kick in") until +3 or +4. So whenever you have a day off work and can do a full curve, you can see if that is true for Jade. Learning her usual onset time helps you build a crystal ball of sorts. A reading at +2 or even +3 that is lower than the pre-shot number can mean an "active cycle", one where you would want to monitor more (if home), have someone else check on her for you, or maybe leave higher carb food out if not.

I don't want to alarm you, I am trying to explain the thought process that you'll start to go through. Since this looked like an active cycle, If it were me with the data you have now, I probably would have left some higher carb food out just to be safe until you get more experience.

Does that make sense?

Sandi.

 

[Jill & Jade]

You don't really have enough mid-cycle data to be able to surmise what could be happening today, but if in doubt when you get a reading like that, especially early in your diabetes journey, before you leave the house then leave out some higher carb food. When their BG levels drop, they will automatically seek out food (assuming they aren't sick and not eating for some other reason).

I also see your SS note about being concerned that the +2.5 reading was higher. First, 304 and 306 are virtually the same -- meters are considered "acceptable" with even a 20% variance. Second, lantus doesn't normally onset (ie. "Kick in") until +3 or +4. So whenever you have a day off work and can do a full curve, you can see if that is true for Jade. Learning her usual onset time helps you build a crystal ball of sorts. A reading at +2 or even +3 that is lower than the pre-shot number can mean an "active cycle", one where you would want to monitor more (if home), have someone else check on her for you, or maybe leave higher carb food out if not.

I don't want to alarm you, I am trying to explain the thought process that you'll start to go through. Since this looked like an active cycle, If it were me with the data you have now, I probably would have left some higher carb food out just to be safe until you get more experience.

Does that make sense?

Sandi.

It kind of does. I will reread it when I’m not at work. I feel guilty about leaving her now. I pray she’s ok.

 

[JanetNJ]

Did you leave some food out for her in case she drops?

 

[Jill & Jade]

Did you leave some food out for her in case she drops?

No. I didn’t know. And I don’t have any... what should I get?

 

[JanetNJ]

No. I didn’t know. And I don’t have any... what should I get?

Just whatever you normally feed

 

[JanetNJ]

She's probably fine. Still a lot of room to drop from 140.

 

[Idjit's mom]

Jill, just a suggestion, I keep a couple of cans of medium carb canned food like Fancy Feast Gravy varieties, 12, 13 carb count ,and a can of Friskies high carb food, like the Indoor food (25-27 carbs) in my Hypo Toolbox.

 

[Sandi and Toby]

Fancy feast gravy lovers is my go to if Whispy needs anything higher carb as well.

That all being said, Jill, just test as soon as you get home.

 

[Idjit's mom]

Jill, don't drive yourself crazy, Jade is more than likely taking her usual nap and will give you that "look" when you come rushing in to check on her when you get home. You know the look I'm talking about.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Should I be concerned that she’s gonna drop too low?? And by hold the dose, does that mean one unit at 11 pm?

Didn't mean to alarm you!!...What I meant was that I was curious if she may be going lower and then "bouncing" high by the next shot time (you were concerned last night about the higher than usual PMPS)

Bounces happen due to 1. dropping too low, 2. dropping too quickly, 3. dropping into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combination of all 3)

IF she's routinely dropping that much, that quickly, it could be triggering a bounce. IF she's dropping lower and you just haven't caught it, she may be bouncing due to being "too low" or just lower than her body is used to.

Bouncing is a frustrating, but normal part of the sugardance

 

[Jill & Jade]

Jill, just a suggestion, I keep a couple of cans of medium carb canned food like Fancy Feast Gravy varieties, 12, 13 carb count ,and a can of Friskies high carb food, like the Indoor food (25-27 carbs) in my Hypo Toolbox.

I’m sure gonna do that!!

Didn't mean to alarm you!!...What I meant was that I was curious if she may be going lower and then "bouncing" high by the next shot time (you were concerned last night about the higher than usual PMPS)

Bounces happen due to 1. dropping too low, 2. dropping too quickly, 3. dropping into numbers their body isn't used to anymore (or any combination of all 3)

IF she's routinely dropping that much, that quickly, it could be triggering a bounce. IF she's dropping lower and you just haven't caught it, she may be bouncing due to being "too low" or just lower than her body is used to.

Bouncing is a frustrating, but normal part of the sugardance

No! It’s ok!! So I just got home and she’s at 412. This is tough. I just feel like I’m doing something wrong. Am I? So this BG reading is almost 11 hours after her am shot and 6 1/2 after she tested at 140. I also just stocked up on some Friskies with gravy. Thank you for everything!

 

[Callie & Patches]

It looks like a bounce. Chris was right.

 

[Jill & Jade]

It looks like a bounce. Chris was right.

Are those dangerous?

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Are those dangerous?

No....they're normal....although frustrating!!

What's going on is kind of a leftover survival mechanism....If the blood glucose drops too low, the liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring the BG back up quickly. This can also happen when they drop quickly or even just when they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore.

Dropping too quickly can trigger it just like dropping too low can.

Cats are so good at hiding that they're sick so by the time we get them diagnosed, they could have been diabetic for a long time. Their body gets used to living at those higher numbers, so even if the insulin doesn't take them "too low", the liver can still panic and release those stored sugars and hormones.

The more time you can get Jade in lower numbers, the more likely it is that her liver will re-learn that it's OK to be there

Bounces can take up to 6 cycles to clear...but hopefully, as Jade's body spends more time in better numbers, they'll start to clear faster and she won't bounce as high

 

[Jill & Jade]

No....they're normal....although frustrating!!

What's going on is kind of a leftover survival mechanism....If the blood glucose drops too low, the liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring the BG back up quickly. This can also happen when they drop quickly or even just when they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore.

Dropping too quickly can trigger it just like dropping too low can.

Cats are so good at hiding that they're sick so by the time we get them diagnosed, they could have been diabetic for a long time. Their body gets used to living at those higher numbers, so even if the insulin doesn't take them "too low", the liver can still panic and release those stored sugars and hormones.

The more time you can get Jade in lower numbers, the more likely it is that her liver will re-learn that it's OK to be there

Bounces can take up to 6 cycles to clear...but hopefully, as Jade's body spends more time in better numbers, they'll start to clear faster and she won't bounce as high

Thank you, Chris. Today I have been testing every two hours so far. IF you have a moment, do you mind taking a peek and letting me know what you think of her SS? I have sent it to my Vet and we are having a phone appointment tomorrow morning. ($57 for 20 minutes!) and I need all the info I can get!
Thank you again for taking the time. This site has been so very good, even though I must admit that I’ve had several panic attacks reading it as well!
Warmest regards,
Jill & Jade

 

[Jill & Jade]

No....they're normal....although frustrating!!

What's going on is kind of a leftover survival mechanism....If the blood glucose drops too low, the liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring the BG back up quickly. This can also happen when they drop quickly or even just when they drop into numbers their body isn't used to anymore.

Dropping too quickly can trigger it just like dropping too low can.

Cats are so good at hiding that they're sick so by the time we get them diagnosed, they could have been diabetic for a long time. Their body gets used to living at those higher numbers, so even if the insulin doesn't take them "too low", the liver can still panic and release those stored sugars and hormones.

The more time you can get Jade in lower numbers, the more likely it is that her liver will re-learn that it's OK to be there

Bounces can take up to 6 cycles to clear...but hopefully, as Jade's body spends more time in better numbers, they'll start to clear faster and she won't bounce as high

Also, I’ve been extra strict about not giving her the Greenies as treats today. Just one. Ordered and tried the freeze dried shrimp thingys ans ahe wasn’t impressed. Spoiled kitties. I’ve ged her the rx food mixed with FF chicken Classic and her snack was a bit more of that a few hours after she initially ate.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

so far today, that's a pretty good response.....Makes me wonder if she's starting to break her bounce.

Will be interesting to see the PMPS

China wouldn't touch any of the normal freeze dried treats either (like Pure Bites) but she LOVES the Orijen Wild Boar (I get the dog ones and break them into smaller pieces because the dog ones are cheaper by the ounce but the exact same thing)

The Orijen treats are a different texture and most of the "hard to please" cats here like them!

You can also use plain old baked chicken/turkey or a little human tuna if it's something she likes

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

we are having a phone appointment tomorrow morning. ($57 for 20 minutes!)

Wasn't going to say anything but just couldn't keep my big mouth shut....I think this is nuts (although I suppose it's better than requiring you bring her in for a useless day of curve testing)

I know it takes a giant leap of faith to listen to a bunch of crazy cat ladies on the internet, but we're a whole lot cheaper and a lot of us have a lot more experience than any vet dealing with this disease

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank you, Chris. Today I have been testing every two hours so far. IF you have a moment, do you mind taking a peek and letting me know what you think of her SS? I have sent it to my Vet and we are having a phone appointment tomorrow morning. ($57 for 20 minutes!) and I need all the info I can get!
Thank you again for taking the time. This site has been so very good, even though I must admit that I’ve had several panic attacks reading it as well!
Warmest regards,
Jill & Jade

Your vet charges you to follow-up on the phone? That's crazy.

 

[Butterball]

It's not something to lose sleep over (though you probably still will like most of us who were new to cat diabetes). Especially when you're using Lantus, which won't drop BG as fast and hard as Novolin. For Novolin I would be concerned but Lantus is never going to plunge your cat into hypo in 3 hours. It's probably the "safest" insulin you can use

If you won't be home for long periods of time, just leave food out for the cat (or get an auto-feeder). Most of the time if a cat feels like their BG is getting too low they'll feed themselves anything they can find. Even dog food in my Rocky's case which turns a falling BG into an alarmingly high one by the end of the day

 

[Jill & Jade]

Wasn't going to say anything but just couldn't keep my big mouth shut....I think this is nuts (although I suppose it's better than requiring you bring her in for a useless day of curve testing)

I know it takes a giant leap of faith to listen to a bunch of crazy cat ladies on the internet, but we're a whole lot cheaper and a lot of us have a lot more experience than any vet dealing with this disease

Oh I 100% agree!!!

 

[Jill & Jade]

Your vet charges you to follow-up on the phone? That's crazy.

It’s a new thing... they say they’re too busy too follow up via email?? It’s more expensive than a lawyer!!

 

[JanetNJ]

It’s a new thing... they say they’re too busy too follow up via email?? It’s more expensive than a lawyer!!

Still my vet always calls me when labs come back or I have a question. One of my vets charts via email when I have a question. Crazy they change for a phone conversation

 

[Chris & Lucy]

Lucy didn't like the freeze dried treats either. But if I soak them in water until they get soft she loves them and even laps up the water in the bowl

 

[Jill & Jade]

Lucy didn't like the freeze dried treats either. But if I soak them in water until they get soft she loves them and even laps up the water in the bowl

Good thinkin!! The vet said the greenies (for hairballs) are ok. I over treat them tho, I am an enabler!!

 

[Jill & Jade]

Still my vet always calls me when labs come back or I have a question. One of my vets charts via email when I have a question. Crazy they change for a phone conversation

I think they just started this. My jaw hit the floor when she said $50 (and $7 for a credit card processing fee) Im really hoping that this is in lieu of a follow up office visit!! I've been so happy with them up until this.

 

[Jill & Jade]

Wasn't going to say anything but just couldn't keep my big mouth shut....I think this is nuts (although I suppose it's better than requiring you bring her in for a useless day of curve testing)

I know it takes a giant leap of faith to listen to a bunch of crazy cat ladies on the internet, but we're a whole lot cheaper and a lot of us have a lot more experience than any vet dealing with this disease

Not a giant leap of faith at all..I'm one of the crazy cat ladies too. There are 18,000 members here and I do trust in the advice you've been giving. It's experience!

 

[Jill & Jade]

Still my vet always calls me when labs come back or I have a question. One of my vets charts via email when I have a question. Crazy they change for a phone conversation

As they should!

so far today, that's a pretty good response.....Makes me wonder if she's starting to break her bounce.

Will be interesting to see the PMPS

China wouldn't touch any of the normal freeze dried treats either (like Pure Bites) but she LOVES the Orijen Wild Boar (I get the dog ones and break them into smaller pieces because the dog ones are cheaper by the ounce but the exact same thing)

The Orijen treats are a different texture and most of the "hard to please" cats here like them!

You can also use plain old baked chicken/turkey or a little human tuna if it's something she likes

I gave her her shot at 11pm, so the tests wont be as frequent. Momma has to sleep and it's so stinkin hot here in Chicago,I'm drained. Not to mention Jade has been an angel about letting me test her in part because she' s also hot and not as energetic as usual.We are all quite sluggish today. I have a portable AC unit in my room for her but its still 80 even on full blast. ICK.

 

[Idjit's mom]

Hope you and Jade get some rest tonight.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

The vet said the greenies (for hairballs) are ok

Actually, they're too high in carbs, so if you can find something else Jade likes, it'll be better for her

it's so stinkin hot here in Chicago,I'm drained.

I hear you! I'm in mid-Missouri and we're in the same heat wave!! I have A/C, but can't afford to keep it where I'd like it, so we're all kind of dumpy around here too

 

[Jill & Jade]

Hope you and Jade get some rest tonight.

Thank you! Her and my boy cat Dexter have been sleeping all day. Him not as much, he has a flair for the dramatic even tho he knows the AC is on in the bedroom.

 

[Jill & Jade]

Actually, they're too high in carbs, so if you can find something else Jade likes, it'll be better for her



I hear you! I'm in mid-Missouri and we're in the same heat wave!! I have A/C, but can't afford to keep it where I'd like it, so we're all kind of dumpy around here too[/QUOTE

Actually, they're too high in carbs, so if you can find something else Jade likes, it'll be better for her



I hear you! I'm in mid-Missouri and we're in the same heat wave!! I have A/C, but can't afford to keep it where I'd like it, so we're all kind of dumpy around here too

Will look for better treats asap! Have gone from giving her about 15 throughout the day to one after each BG test.

 

[Idjit's mom]

We don't have AC, when it heats up, I close up and turn on the box fan. It stays bearable downstairs, but upstairs is awful. Have to move sleeping quarters down. We open up at night, double lock the security doors and get the cool down. Idjit always finds the coolest place and claims it.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

We don't have AC, when it heats up

Does it get hot in Washington?....LOL

When I think of Washington, I think of rain....only time I've ever been there it was cold, miserable and very wet!!

 

[Idjit's mom]

Yep, it gets hot in Washington. Even on the west side it heats up and gets uncomfortable. If you look on a state map, the Cascades divide the state, E & W. West is Seattle, Tacoma, very populous, greener, wetter, rainier, more mild winters. East is drier, hotter, colder, browner, less populous. Spokane is the largest city in the East. It gets to 90s, into 100s sometimes, I think that's too hot!

 

[Beck and Philly]

Ditto on the heat. I have 1 window AC in the dining room. At night I bring grandpa into my bedroom so the other cats can eat their food. We make do with a window fan and a ceiling fan.

 

[Jill & Jade]

Yep, it gets hot in Washington. Even on the west side it heats up and gets uncomfortable. If you look on a state map, the Cascades divide the state, E & W. West is Seattle, Tacoma, very populous, greener, wetter, rainier, more mild winters. East is drier, hotter, colder, browner, less populous. Spokane is the largest city in the East. It gets to 90s, into 100s sometimes, I think that's too hot!

I’d rather be cold. Factor in hot flashes and OMG!

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

I’d rather be cold

Oh yeah....if you're cold you can always add more clothes, blankets, start a fire!!….when it's too hot, there's only so much you can take off!!

 

[Jill & Jade]

Oh yeah....if you're cold you can always add more clothes, blankets, start a fire!!….when it's too hot, there's only so much you can take off!!

Exactly!

 

[Butterball]

Check the refrigerated section of your grocery/pet store for the diabetic safe "treats". What I do is buy a bag of the soft "raw" (it's not really raw I don't think but I dunno what else to call it..."natural"?) food that's grain and gluten free and I use a pinch of it as treats for testing and whenever I think my cat is looking adorable. You have to keep this kind of food refrigerated though or else they spoil and get nasty pretty quickly. My cats don't care about freeze dried stuff so this was my solution.

Of course, the best cat treats in my experience is just good old fashioned deli meat

 

[Jill & Jade]

Check the refrigerated section of your grocery/pet store for the diabetic safe "treats". What I do is buy a bag of the soft "raw" (it's not really raw I don't think but I dunno what else to call it..."natural"?) food that's grain and gluten free and I use a pinch of it as treats for testing and whenever I think my cat is looking adorable. You have to keep this kind of food refrigerated though or else they spoil and get nasty pretty quickly. My cats don't care about freeze dried stuff so this was my solution.

Of course, the best cat treats in my experience is just good old fashioned deli meat

She does love meat!! And thank you, I will definitely look!!