Mouse dance

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mouse16

mouse16

Member Since 2018
Hi PSs are in yellow and mid cycle dark green, starting sometimes at 3+. He is getting 2.10 units. I am fine with these low numbers when I can test him frequently (but am nervous nevertheless), but its too nerve-racking if I have to leave him alone at mid cycle, and even the night time tests are causing me huge stress and exhaustion.

Would a slight reduction be ok? say to 2 units?

Afterthought: I will be able to monitor him closely for next 2 days; if he stays in safe dark greens at mid cycle would it be safe enough to leave him on Monday (at same dose he is on now)?
 
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Those numbers look pretty to me :D It sounds like a good plan to leave him on that dose and monitor a couple of days. You have to do what you are comfortable with, but if he consistently has these numbers on this dose, I would stay with it for now. Does he have food out during the day when you are gone so that he can eat on if he starts to go low? They often tend do do that.
 
Thank you Furbabies mama, yes he has food out to graze on. Today at mid cycle he was suddenly ravenous which is so untypical for mr fusspot!

Thank you Kris!

:D:cat::D
 
I’m in the same boat with you! @mouse16
Those numbers make me nervous too! We just aren’t used to those green numbers! Glad you can be home with him the next couple days & you can find the happy dose for you both!
 
I love seeing all the greens emerging on your spreadsheet. Try not to worry too much about the rise at the end of the cycle. He'll settle down as he gets more and more used to those healthy, healing numbers. Keeping him in those greens and low blues as long as possible during the cycle gives his pancreas a chance to heal.

Mouse isn't showing the tendency to dive out of the blue. So you should be fine to leave him and trust that he'll be safe. I know those Sticky posts about hypoglycemia are scary, but you have enough data now on Mouse to make reasonable predictions about his safety.

While you can't look at anyone else's spreadsheet and copy their dosing (because every cat is different), you can look at other spreadsheets to start to see how kitty's do in lower numbers. It might help to look at some of them and notice that a) kitties can and do hit lime green numbers sometimes and survive and b) they don't hit dangerously low lime green numbers out of the blue. Most of the time they stay in the 40's, and just dip down for a minute.

The dangerous lows happen when people are overdosing their cats without monitoring enough to know they are overdosing, when they are feeding a poor diet, or when a secondary health issue interferes with "typical" responses.

Hypoglycemia isn't something to be casual about, but it also shouldn't be something that keeps you glued to your house in a state of constant worry. You're doing a great job of monitoring Mouse, and you're giving very reasonable, careful dosing. Please go out and enjoy yourself! The more you get out, and come home and see that he's fine, the more you'll be able to relax.

When I first started I was terrified every time I left that I would come home to a dead cat. When I finally forced myself to do it more, the worry began to ease. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Aww Djamila, big thanks for your message of reassurance and encouragement! (That is so spot on, the fear of coming home to dead cat). My dilemma now is his low AMPSs, today was 220/ 12.3, in the Sticky it says the No Shoot number for Alphatrak is 14. I gave him half a dose, sigh, probably a mistake/too cautious. Its so hard not knowing what to do!
 
Hmmm...I wonder if the sticky is wrong? The no-shot should be equal to 220, which would be around 12 wouldn't it? (I'm not great at the conversions). Regardless, those are for when you are first starting and may not be able to reliably test. You are a pro now, so you can start to shoot below that number. :)

Collect some data today and see how Mouse does on the reduced dose, and then you can use that info next time to decide if you can shoot the full dose, or how much of a reduction is needed on lower numbers.
 
wooo I am a pro now!!!! :cool::cool::woot: That is good to know about the the No Shoot (it said 14 cos Alphatrak runs high with test numbers).

i followed your first advice and went out for the day (feeling safe with the low dose) and had a break (went to the river and dangled feet in water:), I only saw your 2nd message when i got home. But I figure its ok, there is time, no rush, will keep on gathering info and getting clearer picture.

river peace, Lila
 
i feel so guilty, cos the half dose has caused a big BG rise :arghh: and i am scared that all you amazing people here will start to get angry with me and stop giving advice cos i have not been following it properly and have been pig headed. His neuropathy has kicked in today after being tons better the past week. i messed up, feel terrible.
 
mouse16 said:
i feel so guilty, cos the half dose has caused a big BG rise :arghh: and i am scared that all you amazing people here will start to get angry with me and stop giving advice cos i have not been following it properly and have been pig headed. His neuropathy has kicked in today after being tons better the past week. i messed up, feel terrible.
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It's a marathon.
 
Deep breaths. We have all had cycles like that. Where our heart/wishful thinking takes over our dosing and we end up giving the wrong amount. I still do it far too often. That's why the data is so helpful - it lets us know when we've done that and helps us get back on track.

Along with that, you've been dealing with conflicting advice since your vet told you to give half doses. You can see now why that is not good advice, so next time you won't need to do it. And if your vet asks, you can point to last night/this morning's numbers as the reason why you aren't doing that anymore.

Mouse is going to be just fine. In a couple of cycles he'll be right back on track. He's really been doing very well as you can see his overall numbers are coming down and getting into healthier ranges. So don't be so hard on yourself. You're doing just fine :cat::cat::cat:
 
Hey, we totally get it! It's HARD when your vet tells you one thing and a bunch of crazy cat ladies on the internet tell you something different. ;) I was super lucky that my vet mostly gave me the same advice I got here...but she was stuck on wanting prescription food and I had a hard time refusing because she IS a vet! Even now, I have a hard time going against vets advice on things, but I do my research. I also remind myself that vets are basically general practitioners for a TON of different species. OF COURSE they can't be experts on everything...heck even human doctors can't do that and they only have ONE species to treat!

We really do get it. You've seen what happens when you cut the dose in half, as Djamila said, so now you have good data to know why you don't want to do that. The good news is that you won't be wondering now if you should! Just another reason I say all data is good data.

Don't worry...we don't give up on folks easily around here. It takes time to learn to trust us and even we can be wrong sometimes too...so it's never a bad idea to take all advice into account and go from there. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
ohh blubber again, what another lovely message, wow you are really a wonderful bunch of crazy cat ladies here!!!! Its amazing to be so understood. Thank you Rachel. And yes, all data is good data eh, and I've seen what happens when I half the dose... so tonight when his PMPS was 216 (12) I was brave and gave him 2 units (after food of course) and will test him during the night..

still in awe of such a wise bunch of cat ladies!! :cat: :bighug::cat: :bighug: :cat:
 
his AMPS was 157 (blue), after an hour it was 175 (blue). I am so confused. I havent given any insulin, he is now 2 hours past shoot time. I have to go out today and cant monitor mid cycle (if i do decide to inject)..
 
3 hours after normal shoot time (no shoot yet) hasnt risen at all

i have to leave in 10 mins..
 
I'm guessing you've left already? What did you decide? (whatever you decided is fine, don't worry!)
 
JanetNJ said:
Skip if under 200
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That’s only necessary for new folks and cats that are particularly volatile. Prozinc does not require skipping under 200 in the majority of cases as long as the data is consistent for the cat and the owner has an understanding of the process (which is the case here.)

While we can’t “shoot low to stay low” to the same level as the L insulins, we can and need to shoot below 200 if a cat is going to get off insulin.
 
mouse16 said:
i skipped..
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Since this is your first blue PS and you had to leave, I think that’s fine. When there is a low PS and you can be home, we can talk about giving a token dose to keep the next PS down.

Of course with how fast Mouse is moving down the dosing scale right now, he might keep it reasonably low all on his own today!
 
Djamila said:
That’s only necessary for new folks and cats that are particularly volatile. Prozinc does not require skipping under 200 in the majority of cases as long as the data is consistent for the cat and the owner has an understanding of the process (which is the case here.)

While we can’t “shoot low to stay low” to the same level as the L insulins, we can and need to shoot below 200 if a cat is going to get off insulin.
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Yes but being new with little data and not being around to test, it was OK to skip. I shoot well below 200 myself.
 
Djamila I am all ears about needing to shoot below 200 if a cat is going to get off insulin - very important info! And I am eager to try the token dosing when its a low PS, my intuition is that he will respond well to that. I haven't tested him today since the phantom 3+ so I'm itching to see what his PMPS is!!

Janet its good to know that you shoot below 200 and thanks again for reassurance.

Update: he is only 214 after 23 hrs without insulin!!!!

how many units should i give him now??
 
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I gave him 1.6 units instead of 2, cos i cant face another night of testing, last night was exhausting.
Ok i am officially "experimenting" with his dosing now!

:eek:
 
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Well dang, sorry we weren't here! It's been a crazy day for me so I haven't been able to be on as much as I usually can. I think that was a fine dose to give.

As for the low PS, I would definitely want to give insulin in the future on a lower than 200...but it all depends on what the number is. It is good practice to stall like you did for sure and then we can make sure that the number is moving some. :) What time do you normally shoot and in what time zone? I'm usually only around 4:30AM CT...and I usually leave for work around 6 my time. So I can check in during that time (tomorrow may be different due to a dead car battery...but most weekdays this is my schedule).
 
Hi Rachel! its ok that no one was here, I asked the question just before due to shoot so didnt give anyone time to reply, and also I'm in UK so that is difficult timewise! I give him insulin at 9.30am and pm (late i know, and it sometimes migrates to 11am/pm!)

Its 11.30pm now and I'm off to bed. I will sleep easier thanks to your message that the dose I gave is ok! night night :joyful:
 
Okay, it's 5:30 PM where I am (putting that here for a reference later :)). We've had a few UK members over time...it's tough because we kind of have to guess at dosing ahead of time since we're not around when you are usually, but we can work with that! We've done it before. I'll be interested to see what this dose does for tomorrow morning!
 
Are you still around Rachel? Mouse is going low and has symptoms of mild hypo at 3+ and 4+ (81, but that is with Alphatrak and freestyle test strips so it would read lower on a human meter).

I gave him food and snacks and even a couple licks of honey as he still has approx 2 hours till nadir. Am wide awake (and exhausted at same time) and checking him every 30 mins.
 
oh no about car battery! thanks for showing the time difference; so i am 6 hours ahead of you.
Mouse is gonna be ok, I aint gonna let him go hypo, sittin right here beside him on sofa!
 
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You said symptoms of a hypo? He shouldn't be showing symptoms when he's still in very safe numbers. Any chance there is something else going on with him?
 
Hi Djamila! he got ravenously hungry suddenly, very unusual as he has poor appetite. I am probably just a panicker. Am going to bed now at last (4am) as his numbers are rising a bit. Night night :rolleyes:

i worry that he is actually much lower cos alphatrak with freestyle strips runs high in readings..
 
Ah! Thank goodness! You had me worried.

See, that just shows you how smart Mouse is! He knew to get some food to stop himself from diving! Make sure to give him extra chin scratches and tell him how clever he is :cat:

It’s good to keep an eye on them when they do their first cycle like that, although I’m sorry you won’t have much sleep now. Any chance of a good long nap today?
 
Good mornig Djamila ;), lovely to wake up and see your caring message!! I did tell him how super-clever he is! What a boy. Yeah five hours sleep not enough so going back to bed for nap now, I am lucky to be able to do that.

His AMPS was 205 and I gave him 1.6 units again like last night. He probably dived fast after last night's dose cos he hadnt had any insulin for 24 hours eh? I think thats what you meant by "first cycle".

Never a dull moment!!
 
I think what Djamila meant by first cycle was first cycle on a different dose. The lack of insulin yesterday SHOULDN'T have caused him to dive fast like that. However, I couldn't tell you for sure why he DID drop. Very strange...let's see what happens today (after you get a bit more sleep!).
 
Hi Rachel :) ah that makes sense, first cycle on new dose. At 3+ he is 113 (blue) and not hungry, last night at 3+ he was green and ate as much in one go as he does in a whole day! Its wonderful to have people who are curious and share in our daily adventure! :bighug:
 
Whoops! Sorry for the lack of clarity! I was a little too sleepy last night. ;) I meant the first cycle when he got really reactive like that. He's been in greens before, but this is the first time you've posted about him being really ravenous from it which can be scary when it's a new response, and also because you don't know if he's going to surf along in those safe greens, or if he's going to start diving.

It looks like Mouse and Jaxa (@Glassgoblin) might be racing each other down the dosing scale for awhile. They both seem to have turned a corner recently towards some healthier numbers.
 
aw Djamila nothing to be sorry for, you were a great support last night! That is exactly it about the new symptom being scary and not knowing what will come next.
haha i am going to check out Jaxa's spreadsheet. Healthier numbers yayyyyyy!!! :rb_icon:
 
His PMPS is 205 but he won't eat, something is wrong and I am very worried. We were outside together for a little walk, I noticed his breathing was fast, wasnt sure if it was cos he was 'sniffing the air' but we've been home 90 mins and he is still breathing fast and will not touch food - this is very unusual as he is always hungry after he has been out.

I am skipping his shot as he wont eat. Might have to take him to vet tonight.
 
I had to ask a neighbour, who is familiar with cats, to come in and look at him - she says he is not breathing fast. It was all in my head. Thats my mental health condition distorting things. But he is still refusing to eat, so no shot. My nerves are toast tonight.:(
 
mouse16 said:
I had to ask a neighbour, who is familiar with cats, to come in and look at him - she says he is not breathing fast. It was all in my head. Thats my mental health condition distorting things. But he is still refusing to eat, so no shot. My nerves are toast tonight.:(
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After going through pancreatitis I do that all the time; I watched her food intake like a hawk, counting every calorie, so going to free feeding was really difficult (I'm a control freak about the cat's health). I am still helicopter parenting Jaxa though; have to write everything down, noting any changes, etc. I think it is normal when our babies are sick though.
 
thank you glassgoblin for your understanding, it helps so much. (and to know I'm not the only control freak:) phewwww.
midnight here so gonna try get some sleep (for a change!)
 
Has he eaten anything? I know it's worrisome when they don't. It's possible he was just having an off day though...that does happen. Try it again in the morning...and try a few things like treats, tuna juice, etc to see if that gets him started. Sometimes they just need a little push to remind them that food is a good thing!
 
Hello Rachel! he wouldnt touch food all night, but he ate a small amount this morning with much persuasion and eating out my hand. Apart from little appetite he is back to normal, went outside to do his business, grooming now.

His AMPS is 225, after no insulin for 24 hrs. I'm not sure what dose to give as I won't be able to monitor mid cycle today.

I just gave a very cautious 1 unit cos of his lack of appetite.
 
I think that's fine. That's a lovely AMPS number and if he isn't eating great, you want to be cautious when you won't be there. As long as he eats some, I wouldn't worry too much...he might just be under the weather, tired out, etc. We go through that as humans too! But if he stops eating completely, I wouldn't go long without a vet visit.

Going outside, grooming, etc is a good sign. If he really wasn't well, he'd be more likely to hide and not want to do any of his normal activities. Sending healing and good eating vines!
 
I'm so sorry to hear Mouse is a little under the weather right now! I agree with Rachel that as long as he's eating some, give it a little time, but if he stops eating head to the vet. You might be able to help entice him to eat if you pick up some nutritional yeast (or Brewer's yeast - they are very similar and both are safe for cats). If you sprinkle it on the food, some cats really love it. (usually found in the health food or bulk section of stores -- NOT the same thing as regular yeast you use to bake bread). You can also try Parmesan cheese or tuna water.

Please keep us updated on how he's doing.
 
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