? 5/12 Asia AMPS 264, +2/R4 209 High Blood Pressure Questions before vet visit

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Stacy & Asia

Stacy & Asia

Member Since 2017
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/5-10-asia-have-a-shot-at-diagnosing-my-cat-please.195387/

Asia is doing okay today. Yesterday was pretty awful for me, lots of necessary tears and then I formulated a game plan.

Going to my regular vet practice today but seeing the owner of the practice who went to CSU, I hope he’s good. Going to get BP, and an average of several (that’s never been done and the one reading they got before was borderline around 160). I want to rule in/out BP and needing to medicate that and I want to ask about a possible low dose aspirin for blood thinner if necessary. I’m leaning towards this being some mini stroke episode and I don’t want to sit around and wait for the main event.

I know their u/s tech isn’t there today, but maybe he will fire up the u/s just to have a quick peek and see if there’s anything super obvious going on. Regardless, just addressing and ruling out this being a mini stroke will put my mind at ease. In her hyperglycemia lethargy yesterday, I was able to look at her molar and premolar, the only two big teeth she has left outside of her canines. Molar has a large cap of calculus on it (a common and recurrent issue for her). Premolar is a bit more concerning as her gum is red at the gum line. This is despite her being on antibiotics for weeks. Sigh. Reasonably ruling out she doesn’t have anything terminal like pancreatic cancer, which will only be done by comparing the nodules on her previous u/s to a new one, I will possibly get FME at the only hospital on this island with a board certified anesthesiologist on staff.

Very scary, but I have a feeling the reason for many of her issues, especially the kidney infection/UTIs/kidney injury could be due in some part to those nasty teeth. It is not advanced as before where the gum is over the tooth, but just the gingivitis (on antibiotics) alone gives me pause. It was not like that before and I was hoping we’d get lucky and not have more resorption issues because I’m terrified of her going under anesthesia with all of her issues.
 
Beth 73 said:
I brush/place coconut oil on Elmo gums to hold back inflammation /infection per HV advice
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Interesting. I am not sure I would have fingers left if I tried it but might give it a go (couldn't hurt with the constipation also). What kind of coconut oil?

Gizmo's teeth looked pretty bad pre-dental in 02/2017 but when they got in there the vet that did the dental said the plaque just lifted off almost in one piece and no extractions were necessary. I have tried to take a peek and from what I can see his teeth are not bad at all. I do give the freeze dry treats in the hopes it does give him some "chew" to help keep them cleaner and now he is getting a tablespoon of Young Again per day so he does have some "crunch" in his diet.

Stacy, really hoping you get some answers. I understand the researching through tears so completely. It is so frustrating.
 
What’s the best way to get an accurate BP short of them letting me take the doppler home and do it myself? :p

She doesn’t like to be held, so her in my lap isn’t going to help. I’m going to convince them not to restrain her, fear keeps her frozen anyway. I’m going to ask for several readings and an average.

She was 165 last time which is borderline bad, but if she was stressed, it could be inaccurate anyway, right?

My concern is her having a high BP and not knowing if it is regular for her or stress related. How/when do they decide to treat and if the only way to measure if the meds are effective is to get another BP (at the vet), how is that any more accurate? I wouldn’t want to treat unnecessarily because then it could drop her BP at home if it’s really normal in a non stressed environment. But I also don’t want to ignore a high reading because she has so many risk factors for high BP (CKD, age, diabetes, underlying infection).
 
When my vet does it, they take kitties to a dimly lit room in a quiet part of the practice and let them settle for a few minutes. Also, our carrier is a top-loader that comes apart - they've found that taking the top half of the carrier off and leaving kitty in the familiar environment of their carrier helps keep them as calm as possible, too.

USUALLY 170 is about a good cut off for "white coat syndrome" - for the most part, they don't spike above that from stress; however, Wendy's Neko certainly proved that to not always be the case since she really skyrocketed when she was stuck in the waiting room with droolers and such for a long time. ECID, but spiking really high like that from stress usually isn't the norm.

And, as you mentioned earlier, getting several reads is important, too. My vet usually does 4.
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Interesting. I am not sure I would have fingers left if I tried it but might give it a go (couldn't hurt with the constipation also). What kind of coconut oil?

Gizmo's teeth looked pretty bad pre-dental in 02/2017 but when they got in there the vet that did the dental said the plaque just lifted off almost in one piece and no extractions were necessary. I have tried to take a peek and from what I can see his teeth are not bad at all. I do give the freeze dry treats in the hopes it does give him some "chew" to help keep them cleaner and now he is getting a tablespoon of Young Again per day so he does have some "crunch" in his diet.

Stacy, really hoping you get some answers. I understand the researching through tears so completely. It is so frustrating.
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Thanks, Lizzie, I know you’ve been in my shoes quite recently and still aren’t out of the woods. It’s so frustrating, especially when I feel like I’m doing the heavy lifting as far as researching and coming up with some conclusions or ruling things out, I know you must be feeling that way too. :banghead:

For what it’s worth, I think that eating crunchy things for dental health is a complete farce, especially for cats. Their teeth weren’t designed for chewing the way ours are, they just break up that kibble and swallow pieces of it. Besides which “brushing” your teeth with carbs is pretty counterintuitive. I know they say young again is zero carb, but do a poll on this board and ask how many cats have increased BG from eating young again. ;)

I too would not get coconut oil on Asia’s gums without suffering a few unintentional puncture wounds that would then get severely infected by all of the baddies creeping around in Asia’s diseased mouth. :joyful: I wonder if just adding to the food would be enough, especially if you need it for constipation anyway?
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
When my vet does it, they take kitties to a dimly lit room in a quiet part of the practice and let them settle for a few minutes. Also, our carrier is a top-loader that comes apart - they've found that taking the top half of the carrier off and leaving kitty in the familiar environment of their carrier helps keep them as calm as possible, too.

USUALLY 170 is about a good cut off for "white coat syndrome" - for the most part, they don't spike above that from stress; however, Wendy's Neko certainly proved that to not always be the case since she really skyrocketed when she was stuck in the waiting room with droolers and such for a long time. ECID, but spiking really high like that from stress usually isn't the norm.

And, as you mentioned earlier, getting several reads is important, too. My vet usually does 4.
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I’m probably going to have to convince them she doesn’t need restraining, fat chance of a dimly lit room and time to settle. I hope she’s just calm enough that after several reads a few will make sense. :facepalm:

Good to know a general cutoff about spikes from stress. Her bg and her heart rate don’t tend to go up at the vet. What is problematic is she doesn’t react to pain at the vet. Say I know this spot near her mouth or tummy causes a dramatic reaction at home if I touch there, if the vet does the same thing, zero reaction. She’s literally paralyzed with fear and all she can do to express it is make a low grumbling growl that I’ve only ever heard at the vets office (which always freaks them out, but she’s never been aggressive to anyone for any reason and she put up with my two babies pulling her fur and doing who knows what when I wasn’t looking).
 
Have them do the BP 1st thing. My vet has a regular cuff type machine as well as what I think you are calling the doppler (very small cuff with sensor they put on with gel). I was told by the tech the doppler was more accurate. They do a minimum of 3 tests. 1st one is always high. Gizmo's last average was 150 and he is on 0.625mg Amlodipine per day.

I might try an oral syringe for the coconut oil.

Re: YA - he gets it at + 6.5 as his last "snack". He loves it. I figure we will never go off the juice with all his complications and if it makes him happy and keeps him eating - why not? His overall numbers have improved and his poo, for the most part, have been good and regular since he started it (Jan 2018).
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Have them do the BP 1st thing. My vet has a regular cuff type machine as well as what I think you are calling the doppler (very small cuff with sensor they put on with gel). I was told by the tech the doppler was more accurate. They do a minimum of 3 tests. 1st one is always high. Gizmo's last average was 150 and he is on 0.625mg Amlodipine per day.

I might try an oral syringe for the coconut oil.

Re: YA - he gets it at + 6.5 as his last "snack". He loves it. I figure we will never go off the juice with all his complications and if it makes him happy and keeps him eating - why not? His overall numbers have improved and his poo, for the most part, have been good and regular since he started it (Jan 2018).
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Max was on 1/4 a 2.5 amlodipine but eventually went up to 1/2 and still his bp was high at the vet. He was so darn sensitive. I bought my own machine but only got to use it once to check it for accuracy at my vet’s office. He tanked shortly after. The Doppler is supposed to be more accurate for cats but my vet felt for a large cat it didn’t matter. I bought a Doppler and when we tested both out the numbers were pretty close for his non Doppler and mine.
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Have them do the BP 1st thing. My vet has a regular cuff type machine as well as what I think you are calling the doppler (very small cuff with sensor they put on with gel). I was told by the tech the doppler was more accurate. They do a minimum of 3 tests. 1st one is always high. Gizmo's last average was 150 and he is on 0.625mg Amlodipine per day.

I might try an oral syringe for the coconut oil.

Re: YA - he gets it at + 6.5 as his last "snack". He loves it. I figure we will never go off the juice with all his complications and if it makes him happy and keeps him eating - why not? His overall numbers have improved and his poo, for the most part, have been good and regular since he started it (Jan 2018).
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If he likes the YA and it makes him happy, I’m all for it, just don’t think it’s cleaning his teeth is all. :p

I would strongly caution you against syringing any kind of oil, it’s too easy, especially for a cat that doesn’t like oral meds and may fight or thrash about, to get oil down the wrong pipe and lead to aspirating pneumonia.

What was Gizmo’s number where they decided to treat him? He is super stressed at the vet, so that 150 is probably higher than at home, yeah?
 
Stacy & Asia said:
What was Gizmo’s number where they decided to treat him? He is super stressed at the vet, so that 150 is probably higher than at home, yeah?
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Pre-medication he was something like 280 :eek:. I am leaning towards your logic on less stress=lower at home but IDK for sure.

Oh, and I wasn't going to fill the syring completely up, just put a bit in it and use as an application tool :D. His pain meds are oral so we do ok with that. Well, he does ok with me doing it. Lol.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Max was on 1/4 a 2.5 amlodipine but eventually went up to 1/2 and still his bp was high at the vet. He was so darn sensitive. I bought my own machine but only got to use it once to check it for accuracy at my vet’s office. He tanked shortly after. The Doppler is supposed to be more accurate for cats but my vet felt for a large cat it didn’t matter. I bought a Doppler and when we tested both out the numbers were pretty close for his non Doppler and mine.
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Was it super expensive? What did you get?
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Did you give it in 2 doses or all at the same time?
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I gave in one dose. Splitting the dose has not been shown to matter in studies. I even tried the real stuff rather than generic which was expensive and hard to get. No Pharmacy wanted to be stuck with the rest of the bottle. Don’t bother with that. No difference.
 
LizzieInTexas said:
Interesting. I am not sure I would have fingers left if I tried it but might give it a go (couldn't hurt with the constipation also). What kind of coconut oil?

Gizmo's teeth looked pretty bad pre-dental in 02/2017 but when they got in there the vet that did the dental said the plaque just lifted off almost in one piece and no extractions were necessary. I have tried to take a peek and from what I can see his teeth are not bad at all. I do give the freeze dry treats in the hopes it does give him some "chew" to help keep them cleaner and now he is getting a tablespoon of Young Again per day so he does have some "crunch" in his diet.

Stacy, really hoping you get some answers. I understand the researching through tears so completely. It is so frustrating.
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Lizzie, I use Barleans Cold Pressed Organic.... Elmo has come to tolerate it . Some days are easier than others . He does love the taste .
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Was it super expensive? What did you get?
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Not expensive. It is a human drug. I got Gizmo's filled @ the grocery store. It is a PITA to cut in quarters though. You lose 1/4-1/2 of a pill from every whole pill.

Thriving pets has 0.625 pills that are compounded but cost is more. I would only have considered going that route if his BP was too low with the medication but I figure the slight dose fluctuation with the cut pills isn't that big of a deal with him at his current level.

http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/amlodipine.html
 
tiffmaxee said:
I gave in one dose. Splitting the dose has not been shown to matter in studies. I even tried the real stuff rather than generic which was expensive and hard to get. No Pharmacy wanted to be stuck with the rest of the bottle. Don’t bother with that. No difference.
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I only ask because vet said if he needed to go to 1/2 pill they wanted it split and I dreaded that but now we have the pill taking down and Gizmo does well with it that it is no longer an issue.

Hubby takes the same med for his BP but pill is too high dose to try and get Gizmo's dose from it (darn it).
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Was it super expensive? What did you get?
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It took me several months to buy all the parts. I spent about $700 I think. I bought a used Doppler on amazon and most of the rest from the manufacturer. Finding the right sygmomanometer and cuff was a challenge. Parks was out of the cuffs. I got the actual 811 B on amazon for $99.
 
Neko got Rescue Remedy before a BP visit, Feliway sprayed in the carrier. Towel over carrier in waiting room. We had a couple minutes alone in the exam room for her to stretch her legs before tech came in. You can Feliway spray the exam room too. BP could be taken on floor or table if kitty comfy there.
 
Quintus was around 260. Now he's around 160 and the vet says it's "perfectly fine". He's on 1.25 amlodipine (1/4 of a 5mg).

The vet does multiple measurements with the cuff on the base of his tail while he's just standing around on the examination table, first thing. My vet told me choosing the right size cuff was super important to get a good reading (he fumbled a bit at first trying to figure the right size and explained why he took the trouble to try various sizes).
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Neko got Rescue Remedy before a BP visit, Feliway sprayed in the carrier. Towel over carrier in waiting room. We had a couple minutes alone in the exam room for her to stretch her legs before tech came in. You can Feliway spray the exam room too. BP could be taken on floor or table if kitty comfy there.
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And even with all that, it sounds like it didn’t make much of a difference for Neko to not have a stressed reading! :p

It’s pretty hopeless that Asia would ever feel relaxed at the vet. She starts getting stressed the moment we step outside. :( The only time she wasn’t stressed was one time at the ER on Christmas, she had a very painful UTI, I don’t know how much bupe they gave her, but she was on another planet, purring, rubbing everything, walking around and trying to make friends with all the techs and vet. :joyful:
 
Stacy & Asia said:
And even with all that, it sounds like it didn’t make much of a difference for Neko to not have a stressed reading! :p

It’s pretty hopeless that Asia would ever feel relaxed at the vet. She starts getting stressed the moment we step outside. :( The only time she wasn’t stressed was one time at the ER on Christmas, she had a very painful UTI, I don’t know how much bupe they gave her, but she was on another planet, purring, rubbing everything, walking around and trying to make friends with all the techs and vet. :joyful:
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Whoa! I was just curious and looked it up, they gave her 2.2mL of 0.6mg/mL bupe! :eek: That is an insane amount!
 
Stephanie & Quintus said:
Maybe give her lots of bupe? :):cat:
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Not that much, no way! :joyful: By comparison, 0.1mL was too much and made her saucer eyed. That’s 120% more than a dose already too much! :eek: But at least she wasn’t in pain that Christmas, it was a nasty and painful UTI. Lots of help me cries and drops of blood on the floor Christmas Eve, I couldn’t wait that out until normal business hours, I took her in and was there until 0400!

I usually give her a hair more before going to the vet, I’m sure it helps, but not enough that she will be relaxed there. Plus I’m sure with a large dose it would lower heart rate and BP artificially.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
And even with all that, it sounds like it didn’t make much of a difference for Neko to not have a stressed reading! :p
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Actually, her BP got better as I got better at prepping her. First time was a real gong show with vet delayed due to emergency, room full of barky dogs wanted to sniff her carrier, inexperienced tech at the machine. That resulted in 220 ish readings. Attempts number two at a quieter clinic went well until a puppy bumped her carrier. That was around 180. At the dental clinic in a room by herself with Feliway and darkened lights was 140. Even at the busy specialty clinic, she wasn't much above that, if given time to relax first.

Gabapentin is also supposed to be good for relaxing the cat. I tried it for Neko's arthritis, and it did make her sleepy.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Actually, her BP got better as I got better at prepping her. First time was a real gong show with vet delayed due to emergency, room full of barky dogs wanted to sniff her carrier, inexperienced tech at the machine. That resulted in 220 ish readings. Attempts number two at a quieter clinic went well until a puppy bumped her carrier. That was around 180. At the dental clinic in a room by herself with Feliway and darkened lights was 140. Even at the busy specialty clinic, she wasn't much above that, if given time to relax first.

Gabapentin is also supposed to be good for relaxing the cat. I tried it for Neko's arthritis, and it did make her sleepy.
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Ack! Dogs are the worst! I love dogs, but I wish they’d have separate waiting rooms for dogs, they always stress cats out. Asia isn’t bothered by them, but I think she just reacts to the smells in the vet, it must be overwhelming. I’m glad to hear some things helped for Neko, I have a few ideas now.

We have a pet store on our block, I’m going to get some feliaway, it hasn’t done anything in the past when I’ve used it, but that was some years ago and since she’s eating things I’d never thought she would eat, maybe it will help this time. I’m going to ask them not to restrain her and to use her front legs or her tail, she doesn’t like her back legs messed with since diabetes, I don’t know if that’s arthritis or what, but she tries to get her back leg away if you touch it, seems painful. Gave her cerenia for the cab ride and hair more bupe for the vet and because she just had a hiding episode, so I guess the pain is revved up at the moment. Quiet room doesn’t matter to a cat that can’t here, I’ll ask if they can keep the lights out, but it’s an internal room without windows so that may not be an option.

I don’t have gaba and she’s never tried it, I’m always a bit afraid to try new meds, I never know how she will react and I couldn’t take a bad med reaction at this moment in time. She’s had bupe before so I knew at least it didn’t do anything bad to her. She’s not rascally at the vet, she’s still and cooperative, just lots of fear on the inside.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Ack! Dogs are the worst! I love dogs, but I wish they’d have separate waiting rooms for dogs, they always stress cats out. Asia isn’t bothered by them, but I think she just reacts to the smells in the vet, it must be overwhelming. I’m glad to hear some things helped for Neko, I have a few ideas now.

We have a pet store on our block, I’m going to get some feliaway, it hasn’t done anything in the past when I’ve used it, but that was some years ago and since she’s eating things I’d never thought she would eat, maybe it will help this time. I’m going to ask them not to restrain her and to use her front legs or her tail, she doesn’t like her back legs messed with since diabetes, I don’t know if that’s arthritis or what, but she tries to get her back leg away if you touch it, seems painful. Gave her cerenia for the cab ride and hair more bupe for the vet and because she just had a hiding episode, so I guess the pain is revved up at the moment. Quiet room doesn’t matter to a cat that can’t here, I’ll ask if they can keep the lights out, but it’s an internal room without windows so that may not be an option.

I don’t have gaba and she’s never tried it, I’m always a bit afraid to try new meds, I never know how she will react and I couldn’t take a bad med reaction at this moment in time. She’s had bupe before so I knew at least it didn’t do anything bad to her. She’s not rascally at the vet, she’s still and cooperative, just lots of fear on the inside.
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Stacy, you are such a good mom and Asia is such a trooper. I wish I had the wealth of kitty knowledge you have...

When we were in the waiting room @ WSU for his intake and CT scan, there was a very mouthy doggo who I swear had emphysema.. Poor guy was scared out of his mind, barking at everything.. Pig was not a fan.

I have no experience with BP, so not much to chime in with on this thread. However, I did want to add to yesterday's condo and in a way this one. I think it might be very beneficial, or at least informative, to look into turmeric powder for Asia. It is very effective for building a healthy inflammation response and might help curb some arthritic flares and/or ancillary reactions... I use it myself and went from having to take OTC pain meds everyday for an old injury to taking none at all... I combined it with collagen, which can be comparable, to some degree, with Adequan in Asia's case. The trick with turmeric is getting the right formulation so you have the right carrier agents.. I cannot remember the group now, but @Bronx's dad has a great group for that...

The difference might only be anecdotal for Asia, ECID, but it might help... And its a natural solution... Which, I tend to gravitate towards...
 
We are back. The very, very good news is her BP is totally normal (I think), 145 was the average and even accounting for stress, that isn’t high. Vet said the chances for clots or stroke is slim given her heart echo results. I’ll be back later with the rest, I have to eat something. But nothing new or exciting, no lightbulb moments, just some interesting takes on her condition.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
We are back. The very, very good news is her BP is totally normal (I think), 145 was the average and even accounting for stress, that isn’t high. Vet said the chances for clots or stroke is slim given her heart echo results. I’ll be back later with the rest, I have to eat something. But nothing new or exciting, no lightbulb moments, just some interesting takes on her condition.
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Yay!
 
Might there be a safer blood thinner? Too bad about the teeth but I'd not risk anesthesia, either. Heart, BP, forget it.
Hoping praying for good news for you tomorrow.
 
I'm sorry to be reading all these troubles sweet Asia is having, and the worry you must be going through. Sending lots of vines for Asia's health, and for your comfort as well! It sounds like you are on it, and the vet's are trying to help figure out what is going on, but I can only imagine the stress of not knowing what's going on. As always, Asia is LUCKY to have you!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:

P.S. While Bupe may make Asia a bit "saucer eyed" it has a wide margin of safety in dosage, and can relieve anxiety as well - probably why she was relaxed the time she got the large dose. As for Gabapentin - it's a miracle drug. Quite safe, and works wonders to make anxious/fearful cats calm and less-stressed at the vet. Our own civvie finally allowed a blood draw while on Gaba (she had previously required anesthesia for blood draws!!). Not sure it'd be an option at the moment, but something to keep on the back-burner...
 
This one goes in the just desserts category. I was talking to someone on the CKD group just yesterday about ageist vets. I said I was lucky I’ve never come across one with Asia. Well it seems I did today.

I don’t lead with “here’s my 21 year old cat” on purpose. This vet and I had a little discussion about what is going on and I expressed my concerns about this not being a wait until next week situation and that I wanted to get a BP. We had a little chat over what’s going on, he had some ideas and he assumed I was a nurse and then he had to step out to review her files. 30 minutes later...

He comes back and the entire focus has shifted from let’s get to the bottom of this to she’s a 21 year old cat, “the time for diagnostics is over”. I think what basically happened is he saw her recent problems and assumed I was trying to cheat death and make her a frakenkitty or something. I clarified that outside of this acute painful issue happening right now, everything else has been manageable and she has been a happy cat doing happy cat things. I also clarified that I’m not one for heroics and if he told me right then that the problem was cancer, or she needs dialysis or something like that, my focus would change dramatically. I’m plugging up holes because on the whole she is doing well, she’s eating, she’s playing, she’s loving, she’s chatty, she cleans (her face anyway) and outside of the arthritis and occasional transient moments, you just wouldn’t know she’s any different than she’s always been.

I brought up the resorptive disease as being the only time she’s ever been this sick and wondering how much that is playing in to a lot of this. I mentioned going to a specialty hospital to get the teeth out and his response was “you’ll kill her”. I said from what? Her conditions, the anesthesia? He said teeth are off the table. I told him his other vet didn’t believe in pulse antibiotic therapy for the teeth and she’s on Zeniquin right now yet her gums are red at the base of one tooth, he said the Zeniquin would keep any infection from happening. Okay, but she’s not staying on it forever, I had to beg for the appropriate course to begin with, not even that, I had to convince them she had a kidney infection in the first place vs her CKD just suddenly progressed dramatically and now she’s “end stage”.

A little frustrating but long story short, he thinks I should double her bupe dose and just keep her comfortable, basically wait for her to die was the read between the lines on that. Since I still don’t know exactly what is happening other than pancreatitis, I don’t understand how he can make the assumption that this isn’t an acute situation. I just fought through the “end stage kidney disease” diagnosis that magically reversed itself with antibiotics. She literally wouldn’t be here if I listened to what every vet told me to do. The diabetes would have killed her by now from shooting blind, or her kidney infection would have been untreated and progressed such that it really would be end stage. :banghead:

It may sound a little morbid, but since she was around 17 years old, I’ve been more careful about trips we plan and such because I didn’t expect her to be around much longer. Well she’s still here! It’s pretty impossible for me to predict how much longer but here we are 5 years later and yes she has some medical issues, but she’s still very much being a cat and doing cat things. I could say screw it and let her diabetes go completely unregulated, stop giving her antibiotics and supplements and just let her die a slow death, or put her to sleep because it’s obvious her time is up (except it’s very much not obvious at this point). But I don’t understand why that would be a better alternative to supporting her until she tells me she’s done. She’s a little chub, she eats, she plays, it’s not like she’s skin and bones and I’m force feeding her alive. Am I missing something here?! Isn’t that what treat the cat is all about?

Super frustrated. Still don’t know what we are dealing with, even he couldn’t explain the ataxia and said he didn’t think pain or pancreatitis would cause that. He didn’t have any other ideas either, just dope her up out of her mind and wait for her to refuse to eat. So that’s how that went. I swear this was the worst timing ever to go from having the same vet for over a decade to this nonsense. :blackeye:
 
Stacy & Asia said:
This one goes in the just desserts category. I was talking to someone on the CKD group just yesterday about ageist vets. I said I was lucky I’ve never come across one with Asia. Well it seems I did today.

I don’t lead with “here’s my 21 year old cat” on purpose. This vet and I had a little discussion about what is going on and I expressed my concerns about this not being a wait until next week situation and that I wanted to get a BP. We had a little chat over what’s going on, he had some ideas and he assumed I was a nurse and then he had to step out to review her files. 30 minutes later...

He comes back and the entire focus has shifted from let’s get to the bottom of this to she’s a 21 year old cat, “the time for diagnostics is over”. I think what basically happened is he saw her recent problems and assumed I was trying to cheat death and make her a frakenkitty or something. I clarified that outside of this acute painful issue happening right now, everything else has been manageable and she has been a happy cat doing happy cat things. I also clarified that I’m not one for heroics and if he told me right then that the problem was cancer, or she needs dialysis or something like that, my focus would change dramatically. I’m plugging up holes because on the whole she is doing well, she’s eating, she’s playing, she’s loving, she’s chatty, she cleans (her face anyway) and outside of the arthritis and occasional transient moments, you just wouldn’t know she’s any different than she’s always been.

I brought up the resorptive disease as being the only time she’s ever been this sick and wondering how much that is playing in to a lot of this. I mentioned going to a specialty hospital to get the teeth out and his response was “you’ll kill her”. I said from what? Her conditions, the anesthesia? He said teeth are off the table. I told him his other vet didn’t believe in pulse antibiotic therapy for the teeth and she’s on Zeniquin right now yet her gums are red at the base of one tooth, he said the Zeniquin would keep any infection from happening. Okay, but she’s not staying on it forever, I had to beg for the appropriate course to begin with, not even that, I had to convince them she had a kidney infection in the first place vs her CKD just suddenly progressed dramatically and now she’s “end stage”.

A little frustrating but long story short, he thinks I should double her bupe dose and just keep her comfortable, basically wait for her to die was the read between the lines on that. Since I still don’t know exactly what is happening other than pancreatitis, I don’t understand how he can make the assumption that this isn’t an acute situation. I just fought through the “end stage kidney disease” diagnosis that magically reversed itself with antibiotics. She literally wouldn’t be here if I listened to what every vet told me to do. The diabetes would have killed her by now from shooting blind, or her kidney infection would have been untreated and progressed such that it really would be end stage. :banghead:

It may sound a little morbid, but since she was around 17 years old, I’ve been more careful about trips we plan and such because I didn’t expect her to be around much longer. Well she’s still here! It’s pretty impossible for me to predict how much longer but here we are 5 years later and yes she has some medical issues, but she’s still very much being a cat and doing cat things. I could say screw it and let her diabetes go completely unregulated, stop giving her antibiotics and supplements and just let her die a slow death, or put her to sleep because it’s obvious her time is up (except it’s very much not obvious at this point). But I don’t understand why that would be a better alternative to supporting her until she tells me she’s done. She’s a little chub, she eats, she plays, it’s not like she’s skin and bones and I’m force feeding her alive. Am I missing something here?! Isn’t that what treat the cat is all about?

Super frustrated. Still don’t know what we are dealing with, even he couldn’t explain the ataxia and said he didn’t think pain or pancreatitis would cause that. He didn’t have any other ideas either, just dope her up out of her mind and wait for her to refuse to eat. So that’s how that went. I swear this was the worst timing ever to go from having the same vet for over a decade to this nonsense. :blackeye:
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Well, it sounds to me like you know more about her anyways... I have had to deal with that quite a bit where we live. Out here it is dogs and large animal. No one knows or really even cares about cats and that includes the vets. I don't have to drive 2 hours to get to a vet, but I do that because these country vets out here just know next to nothing.. My parents cat was diagnosed diabetic and it took over 6 months for them to get his insulin in (why they did not just prescribe L or L , I do not know) and while they were patiently his organs began to shut down. I had one vet vaccinate Pig with all the "necessary" vaccinations at once, even after I told him that Pig did not handle them well. He did this while talking to me and saying "it will be fine." Pig was back at HIS vet days later sicker than a dog....

I think my point is what you already know. You know more about Asia, obviously. I think you should trust your gut on this one. Never give up on those you love and I know that is the last thing you are going to do. If I were in your shoes I would either seek another vet or request another visit (without) charge for this vet's infuriating and dismissing behavior.

I think what I am saying is this... Trust your gut, Stacy... You got this.. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
LuvinThisPig said:
Well, it sounds to me like you know more about her anyways... I have had to deal with that quite a bit where we live. Out here it is dogs and large animal. No one knows or really even cares about cats and that includes the vets. I don't have to drive 2 hours to get to a vet, but I do that because these country vets out here just know next to nothing.. My parents cat was diagnosed diabetic and it took over 6 months for them to get his insulin in (why they did not just prescribe L or L , I do not know) and while they were patiently his organs began to shut down. I had one vet vaccinate Pig with all the "necessary" vaccinations at once, even after I told him that Pig did not handle them well. He did this while talking to me and saying "it will be fine." Pig was back at HIS vet days later sicker than a dog....

I think my point is what you already know. You know more about Asia, obviously. I think you should trust your gut on this one. Never give up on those you love and I know that is the last thing you are going to do. If I were in your shoes I would either seek another vet or request another visit (without) charge for this vet's infuriating and dismissing behavior.

I think what I am saying is this... Trust your gut, Stacy... You got this.. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thanks! :)

If she were a better traveler these days, I’d pack her up and take her 4 states away to my old vet that knows her very well!

Good on you for taking Pig where he is treated right! I can not believe that about your parents cat, what on earth?! That is so very, very sad. :( :bighug:

My gut says I don’t have enough information to figure out what is going on and until it’s somewhat clear, I assume it’s acute because why wouldn’t I? I think my vet visits need to not include Asia, there’s nothing they need to see her for or do to her, and it’s unfair and stressful to drag her there so much, the information is all there.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
If she were a better traveler these days, I’d pack her up and take her 4 states away to my old vet that knows her very well!
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Just a thought on the travellling, not even sure if this is helpful at vthis stage, you know bfg is not a fan either. Do you take her in we can carrier in the car? Dr M suggested I put him in a larger cage. I have a large dog crate so I put Georges bed and litter tray in there, and put him in the back of the car back seats down so he could see what was going on. That was much less taumatic for george, I wish I'd been doing it for years.

I am so sorry for your experience at the vets.:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Could you try a consult over the phone with our old vet? You could email all lab an relevant information, let him look over it and then phone to discuss.??
 
Gill & George said:
You could email all lab an relevant information, let him look over it and then phone to discuss.??
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Stacy & Asia said:
the information is all there.
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I was going to suggest something similar... Stacy, I don't know if they offer this in your area, but in OK and AR we have mobile vets that will come to your home. Many of them have a veritable traveling clinic they bring along. I have never used one, but can see the appeal. I would assume they do not have the full extent of equipment, but at least enough to get the job done and help you find the next path. Perhaps an IM? I am just guessing with this one... But, I agree. I do not see the sense in hauling her back and forth like that. I hope you find the answers you need very, very soon... :bighug::bighug:
 
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