? 05/04 Shmee AMPS 238, +5 186

[Amanda & Shmee]

Previous condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/05-03-shmee-10-231-dental-day.195047/#post-2183452

Hi everyone,

Shmee has been doing great after his dental. Thank you so much for all the advice and vines. He has been obsessed with the windows all day looking at the birds, and has eaten very well. The pilling of the AB and pain meds continues to not be fun... he let out a really sad / weird meow last night after it. I keep thinking I hope the pills don't get stuck in his tooth holes?! Starting tomorrow I will try the pill pockets again and see if he will eat them. I also added the powder from the pill probiotic to his 2pm can of food (AB was at 9am), and I couldn't believe it but he ate it. I tasted the powder and it didn't taste like anything so that worked well. Thank you for the probiotic suggestion.

My only complaint is he won't love me!! Haha... he always sleeps right next to me and lays on my lap... but he didn't sleep with me last night and was only interested in the birds today. I think he is mad at me but I know this is all for the best.

Question: My vet wanted to decrease him to 4.5, and I thought that was reasonable. I hope this was not a bad decision? Curious what you guys think.

 

[Juliet]

How do you pill? I tip back Silver's head and drop it in. Then I push my little finger in his mouth to push the pill gently into the back of his throat. Holding his bead back a little forced them to swallow. Now he is eating again I pop it in a pill pocket and it disappears.

So glad all is well.

Re the decrease - just keep an eye on his numbers. You'll know if the decrease was warranted.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

Aw, he will forgive you. Pilling is no fun. You couldn’t find anything to hide the pill in that he might eat it? Cream cheese, American cheese slices molded over it like a pill pocket, liverwurst, a piece of fish or chicken?

If you pill him, squirt some water (sideways, not down his throat) in his mouth to help it wash down. Sometimes they can stay up too high and attach themselves to their throat and cause tissue erosion problems, you want to make sure it goes down with a little water chaser. I put the pills in an empty gel cap and coat it with butter so it doesn’t have any taste and it goes down smoother.

Is there any apologetic gesture you can make after pilling him? Give a special treat or some catnip, some play time with his favorite toy?

I wouldn’t decrease until the numbers say to do that, the numbers may come down after the dental, but it might not be immediate and an early decrease in anticipation of that might make you lose momentum, but that’s just my take, see what others opinions are.

Glad the dental went well and hope he’s 100% soon and you start seeing some amazing changes.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I hope Shmee gets over being mad fast. He'll probably forget soon.

Sometimes a cat actually has to go up in dose a bit after a dental, to compensate for inflammation raising the BG. The skip and lowered dose is going to impact the depot. Since you've already got 2 cycles at the dose, I would hold at least six cycles unless he starts trending up, in which case you may have to go back to the last good dose. I usually just went back to my regular dose after the dental.

 

[Amanda & Shmee]

You couldn’t find anything to hide the pill in that he might eat it? Cream cheese, American cheese slices molded over it like a pill pocket, liverwurst, a piece of fish or chicken?

If you pill him, squirt some water (sideways, not down his throat) in his mouth to help it wash down. Sometimes they can stay up too high and attach themselves to their throat and cause tissue erosion problems, you want to make sure it goes down with a little water chaser. I put the pills in an empty gel cap and coat it with butter so it doesn’t have any taste and it goes down smoother.

Is there any apologetic gesture you can make after pilling him? Give a special treat or some catnip, some play time with his favorite toy?

I’ve tried cream cheese, American cheese, poached and baked chicken. I had not tried the liverwurst, I need to remember to add that to my grocery list to try. He usually will eat his Denamarin in pill pockets just fine, but he hasn’t eaten the pill pockets after the surgery. He tried twice and spit them out. I assume they might hurt his teeth? Not sure, I’m going to try the pill pockets again on Monday though.. crossing my fingers!

What do you use to squirt water in their mouths? He actually acted like a slight gag after the last pill tonight... I was so scared... I hope he is ok and it went down his throat. He still won’t really come by me... and really he hasn’t laid around all day. Usually he naps a lot... I wonder if he’s super awake as a side effect from something.

An empty gel cap is a good idea, you are a pro! Do they make empty gel caps that are circular and not rectangle? Where do you get those?

I have tried it all I give him treats, love on him, tried to give him his favorite cat nip filled toy with fresh catnip it it today.. he was not just happy. I wanted to try and play with his favorite toy, Jackson Galaxys ground hunt thing, but then I was afraid it would hurt his teeth because he bites it.

I wouldn’t decrease until the numbers say to do that, the numbers may come down after the dental, but it might not be immediate and an early decrease in anticipation of that might make you lose momentum, but that’s just my take, see what others opinions are.

Sometimes a cat actually has to go up in dose a bit after a dental, to compensate for inflammation raising the BG. The skip and lowered dose is going to impact the depot. Since you've already got 2 cycles at the dose, I would hold at least six cycles unless he starts trending up, in which case you may have to go back to the last good dose. I usually just went back to my regular dose after the dental.

My vet really didn’t like the low numbers before the dental, which is why she said we should start back at 4.5... I should’ve followed my instincts because I was thinking of just taking him back to 5, but she was pretty convinced he didn’t need all the insulin he needed before... and it’s so hard to go against the vet when she was so convinced. I did post last night about reducing the dose to 4.5, but there were no objections . Now that he’s already two shots in, I will be increasing again after six cycles. Hopefully he doesn’t go up too high

Thank you both, I hope he does come back around to me soon... I miss his normal self.

 

[Amanda & Shmee]

How do you pill? I tip back Silver's head and drop it in. Then I push my little finger in his mouth to push the pill gently into the back of his throat. Holding his bead back a little forced them to swallow. Now he is eating again I pop it in a pill pocket and it disappears.

So glad all is well.

Re the decrease - just keep an eye on his numbers. You'll know if the decrease was warranted.

Thank you! I do try to hold his head back, but he really moves around a lot and hates it so it’s hard to keep it held back. I try though. I also gently push it down his throat, if he lets me.. his heart thrashes all around after I get the pill in that it’s hard to get my finger in sometimes.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Hold his head back by gently grabbing the scruff and tilting up.

You can get gelcaps on line, or sometimes from the vet or a compounding pharmacy. Size 3, 4 or 5 work for a cat. The smaller the number, the larger the gel cap. You can get a syringe from the vet that is used for giving liquid meds. I reused the ones I got with buprenorphine in them. Just wash well. Again, vet might give one or two out for free.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

What do you use to squirt water in their mouths? He actually acted like a slight gag after the last pill tonight... I was so scared... I hope he is ok and it went down his throat. He still won’t really come by me... and really he hasn’t laid around all day. Usually he naps a lot... I wonder if he’s super awake as a side effect from something.

An empty gel cap is a good idea, you are a pro! Do they make empty gel caps that are circular and not rectangle? Where do you get those?

I just use a 1 mL oral syringe to squirt water. A pharmacist may have them for free if you ask. I think you can buy them too, or your vet may give you some. I have a huge box of syringes with detachable needles, so that’s what I use since I have them anyway.

I got all my cat pilling tips from people here! Asia is the worst cat to pill ever, even the vets have had trouble, she wriggles and thrashes and doesn’t seem very strong until you try to go in her mouth.

Wendy also recommended the pill buster to me, it looks like pill popper with scissor handles, it’s good for not getting your fingers chomped.

https://www.capsuline.com/empty-capsule-size-chart/

That link will show you the different capsule sizes, I don’t know how big your pills are. I bought mine on amazon size 4, they are pretty small.

I really hope you can find something he will eat them with, it makes things so much easier. Asia is missing most of her back teeth, so she can’t really bite down and realize a pill is in there and spit it out, unlike my civvie that caught on to my tricks. If you do have to pill, at least it’s only temporary and he will forgive you, I know how terrible it feels to do that to a very freaked out and unwilling cat. I’m sure he’s feeling all out of sorts having that dental and will sort himself out in a couple of days or so.

It’s a rare vet that wouldn’t be freaked out with those green numbers. With a little time, once she sees how the progression goes, hopefully she will relax a bit, mine did.