? 4/12/18 /Ravan/amps438/+2 249/+5 239/+9 444/pmps374/+3 397/+8377

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JoyBee&Ravan

JoyBee&Ravan

Member Since 2018
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ps424-2-581-4-374-pmps458-3-351-9-322.193999/

Since the increase in Lantus Ravan has been eating all night & today. He is drinking water constantly.

He had been eating his Raw meat for several days now,No treats. So his carbs are way down.

It has me concerned that he is now very restless. Gets up every 10mins & lays by me, then goes back to where he was before. Swishing his tail like he's agitated. Normally he'd be sleeping during the day.

We were outside this morning,laying in the sunshine. It's finally 70 degrees. We all had a very relaxing morning.

Can the increase in insulin cause his restlessness? I haven't seen him act like this EVER!
 
@Sharon14

I'd like your input on Ravan's SS.

Still haven't figured out his Nadir. It looks all over the place?

After the last increase he is eating & drinking constantly! Also agitated. Very Restless. Not like his usual self.

Back in early March I wasn't testing much & didn't understand about waiting a week on Lantus.

He went into the Blue #'s & green once. I made a mistake & skipped a few doses That's when it all went up high! I increased the dose. Ever since his #'s have been high.

I'm feeling if I would have just waited longer his bg would have come down. Skipping several doses messed it up? ( back in early March)

Any thoughts on this?
 
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It’s looking better Joy... any time you had double yellows like you have had today mid-day you had started out LOW in yellow to begin with - this time you started out in red and now in double yellows...that’s a nice drop

Just sayin’. It tentatively looks a little better ...

I can’t recommend anything as I have not used the type of insulin you are...BUT to me if it were me only, I would see how this 1.5 plays out... :) for a little bit :)

Just checking in on Ravan
 
JoyBee said:
Can the increase in insulin cause his restlessness? I haven't seen him act like this EVER!
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No. It's likely he's feeling better as he gets closer to a good dose. Maybe he's now interesting in Spring! He would have been more hungry/thirsty while he was in high numbers from his bounce.

Nadirs are harder to pinpoint when they are still in mostly higher numbers. As he gets to a dose where he sees a lot more blue, it will become more evident. Nadirs are also just the low point of any given cycle. It can and does move around a bit, some cats more than others. When they are breaking a bounce, the nadirs can be later.
 
Magic Johnson,
Thanks for checking on us!
It feels I was doing better in early March before I messed up & skipped a few doses .
His #'s went up & it's been a problem ever since!
 
Wendy&Neko,
He's eating & drinking more than ever ! And very agitated.

This is not normal behaviour for Ravan.

I know my cat. This is not a good thing. It has me worried.
 
JoyBee said:
Magic Johnson,
Thanks for checking on us!
It feels I was doing better in early March before I messed up & skipped a few doses .
His #'s went up & it's been a problem ever since!
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Hang in there !!! Keep in mind you’re only at 1.5 and not 7 or 8. It’s a very small and slight difference between 1 and 1.5

Do you think Ravan might be constipated a bit ? Hence the agitation?

Will he play chase with you and a toy?

I’m beginning to think Magic just gets bored and eating is something she does when bored... I cannot free- feed she’d eat it ALL.

Have you tried offering a fresh catnip plant or an oat wheat grass plant both of those can usually be purchased at the pet store... it might add some variety and something interesting to chomp on ;)
 
@Magic Johnson
Before the last increase Ravan was playing with his sister & with a string. He was not drinking this much water or food.
His BM's are good. I grow organic grass & catnip in my house.
His agitation is worrying me most. Keeps getting up & coming by me Then back to where he was & his tail swishing.
This behaviour is not like him at all!
 
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JoyBee said:
Before the last increase Ravan was playing with his sister & with a string. He was not drinking this much water or food.
His BM's are good. I grow organic grass & catnip in my house.
His agitation is worrying me most. Keeps getting up & coming by me Then back to where he was & his tail swishing.
This behaviour is not like him at all!
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Hmmm keep us updated... ! :)

Cool on saving A LOT of money and growing both of those - Maji loves her catnip AND GRASSES !!!


Is he wanting your attention? Or is he trying to tell you something?
 
@Bellasmom

If you look at his SS when I increased last time to 1.25 he had a Blue & yellows.

This time he's eating & drinking constantly & is acting very agitated!

So I can't say he's doing better.

Maybe tomorrow.
 
@Bellasmom

It’s a sunny day at Ravan’s :)
JoyBee said:
@Magic Johnson

That's what I'm wondering. I've never seen him agitated & restless like this!
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Ok Joy - I looked at your spreadsheet an I’m not seeing what you are saying - AND I’m really trying to help here- so here goes...

Anytime you had blues and yellows before WAS ONLY when you began the day low... do you see? It’s like a glass half full... if you give 1 or 1.25 when he begins the day in a yellow or even a blue and depending on what Ravan has eaten and such there just isn’t much of a drop there. The DIFFERENCE and the thing I saw that I do believe @Bellasmom mom saw is a beginning of a pattern... you started out mid- RED and corrected in a LOW YELLOWS with only 1.5. - you did not start out in yellows - therefore the correction to me looks good - and I consider that ‘a sign ‘. Now this is just my thinkin’

To me, if Ravan were mine (which he’s not) but if it were me I would say to myself... let’s take it just a bit further and hold this dose and see where it goes. When I look at your spreadsheet your numbers are hopscotching all over the place... this is the first time I’ve seen a beginning of a pattern.

Again I certainly am no expert - but I care and I think the numbers truly tell the story...

Definitely keep an eagle eye on him and pay attention as you are and you’re reporting about -

:).

K
 
Magic Johnson said:
@Bellasmom

It’s a sunny day at Ravan’s :)


Ok Joy - I looked at your spreadsheet an I’m not seeing what you are saying - AND I’m really trying to help here- so here goes...

Anytime you had blues and yellows before WAS ONLY when you began the day low... do you see? It’s like a glass half full... if you give 1 or 1.25 when he begins the day in a yellow or even a blue and depending on what Ravan has eaten and such there just isn’t much of a drop there. The DIFFERENCE and the thing I saw that I do believe @Bellasmom mom saw is a beginning of a pattern... you started out mid- RED and corrected in a LOW YELLOWS with only 1.5. - you did not start out in yellows - therefore the correction to me looks good - and I consider that ‘a sign ‘. Now this is just my thinkin’

To me, if Ravan were mine (which he’s not) but if it were me I would say to myself... let’s take it just a bit further and hold this dose and see where it goes. When I look at your spreadsheet your numbers are hopscotching all over the place... this is the first time I’ve seen a beginning of a pattern.

Again I certainly am no expert - but I care and I think the numbers truly tell the story...

Definitely keep an eagle eye on him and pay attention as you are and you’re reporting about -

:).

K
Click to expand...
LOVE that idea! If he were mine I would do same
 
JoyBee said:
@Magic Johnson

I do plan on keeping this dose & waiting to see what happens.

I'm just worried about his reaction since i increased.
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I agree :). Take solice in the fact that you are dealing with a very small amount of insulin- I check out a LOT of spreadsheets here and I’ve seen 10 units!

Ravan and Peggy Sue are lucky to have someone who cares so much for them

You’re lucky you are able to be there with them and not have to be away all day - THEREFORE you are in a great position to observe :)

I would not worry about hypo at this point - having had a hypo event it’s a gradual decent in overall numbers - so let’s say in the future Ravan starts in yellow and the pinks and reds disappear and so mid day you’re getting blues and greens only - and those numbers are getting lower and slowly you start the day in the high blues and then later down the road you start the day in low blues OK then your gonna need to start to look at the prospect of getting to low - to me your goal would be to try and get Ravan in a regular outta the pinks and reds :) at least for mid day numbers this way Ravans pancreas begins to have at chance at healing :). Slow and steady :)
 
Bellasmom said:
I would say his reaction is not because of insulin, I am not an expert but I really don’t think it is
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I agree I would be super worried if he was not eating or drinking

ALSO Joy I remember you said Ravan had lost weight with diabetes ITS ENTIRELY POSSIBLE he is putting weight on! Cuz he’s eating and drinking so much - tissues MUSCLE and fat store water...in the body
 
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@Magic Johnson

Please don't think I don't appreciate your advice.I listen to everything the people on this forum tell me.

I keep repeating about Ravan's agitation hoping someone else might have had that happen & tell me what they found out.

No, Ravan looks as thin as ever. He's lost nearly a pound since this started a month ago.He has that caved in look on either side. He's never been overweight but he's tall & has always weighed about 14lbs.

I'd guess since last night he's eaten a pound of Raw meat.He's been asking for food every 2 hrs all night & all today. And I've refilled his water (4 bowls) a few times. His puddle in the litter is the size of a dinner plate!

I'm searching for answers.

Thank you for your concern!
 
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JoyBee said:
@Magic Johnson

Please don't think I don't appreciate your advice.I listen to everything the people hear tell me.

I keep repeating about Ravan's agitation hoping someone else might have had that happen & tell me what they found out.

No, Ravan looks as thin as ever. He's lost nearly a pound since this started a month ago.He has that caved in look on either side. He's never been overweight but he's tall & has always weighed about 14lbs.

I'd guess since last night he's eaten a pound of Raw meat.He's been asking for food every 2 hrs all night & all today. And I've refilled his water (4 bowls) a few times. His puddle in the litter is the size of a dinner plate!

I'm searching for answers.

Thank you for your concern!
Click to expand...


Has he had any food with any carbohydrates at all or is it all meat? I’m guessing you have a special balanced diet using raw meat and supplements...

I looked at your spreadsheet and trying to determine why he’s so ravenous- have you tested him in the last few Hours? Or are you waiting for dinner time?

I know when Maji got in the greens she was REALLY HUNGRY it was like her blood sugar was lower than it should be and she wanted food to get it back up again
 
@Magic Johnson
It's the raw diet he's eaten for 15 yrs.He doesn't get food treats Just lots of love !

I'll test again in a few mins He hasn't been getting any carbs for a few days now. That's why I'm wondering why he's so Hungry & thirsty.

I bought another meter the other day & last time I checked bg I used Both meters they were within 20 pts of each other. So I assume the reading is accurate.

He's been eating & drinking like this since I increased his dose . That's why I assumed the increase was causing all this. Makes sense to me.
 
JoyBee said:
@Magic Johnson
It's the raw diet he's eaten for 15 yrs.He doesn't get food treats Just lots of love !

I'll test again in a few mins He hasn't been getting any carbs for a few days now. That's why I'm wondering why he's so Hungry & thirsty.

I bought another meter the other day & last time I checked bg I used Both meters they were within 20 pts of each other. So I assume the reading is accurate.

He's been eating & drinking like this since I increased his dose . That's why I assumed the increase was causing all this. Makes sense to me.
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Understood - but the numbers are showing a positive. I understand no treats (we’ve talked about that before - so I won’t even go there).

An increase in eating and drinking is NOT a bad thing imho (in my humble opinion) I’m not there to assess too much etc

Usually hungry means blood sugar is low... or thirst my usually means blood sugar is high actually I think the body is trying to flush out.

Regardless the eating is a good sign- if no carbs at all where is his blood sugar coming from? Usually the body begins breaking down its fat stores instead...

I wonder after your testing if you gave a little FF if a small amount of carbs from regular pet food may stifle some of that. When is the last time he had food with any carbs at all?
 
One other thing I noticed you raised his insulin AND dropped his carbs BOTH at the same time a few days ago... is it possible that that perhaps he needs a little bit of wet food with low carbs? The reason I say that is you say this “...he hasn’t been getting any carbs for a few days now...”

He also had his insulin increase a couple days ago also - these things go hand in hand

AND you noticed all these changes a few days ago

It seems to me that the numbers on your SS indicate that the 1.5 will take Ravan down to yellow but then when it’s all said and done at the end of the day, it comes back to the same level.

His body is responding to insulin now, it’s doing a curve down and then back up as it wears off - this is normal when giving insulin

The numbers are not where they should be yet but give it a chance the body adjusts it takes time and once you e given sufficient time with the SLGS? Plan that you’re on, follow the protocols:)

I think it’s kinda cool the pattern is emerging a bit perhaps?

I’m just not sure about no carbs at all - I’ll have to read some more on that...perhaps a feline coverts fat from food to blood sugar that would also (might) cause an increase in drinking im pretty sure converting fat to energy (glucose) has leftover components that the body would want to flush out THEREFORE an increase in thirst perhaps ?
 
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Hi Joy, sorry I wasn’t able to reply earlier, but I have a sick kitty and have been back and forth to the vet and just busy watching my little Jack.:( Has anything changed other than the increase in insulin? Does Ravan seem to have any pain when you pet him? Check legs, belly and spine. My cat gets hungry and drinks a lot more when his numbers are high, and when he has normal or low numbers, not so much. There have been cats that reacted to Lantus (there’s a thread about it), but most are fine with it. As far as your SS, I’m no expert, but this AM he had a big drop from PS to +2 and that could be triggering a bounce to the 444 you’re seeing now. I’ll check in later, have to go give Jack his meds.
 
@Sharon14
So Sorry to hear about your sick kitty

I rub & squeeze him all over & he doesn't flinch or show any indication of pain.

He started eating & drinking water like crazy shortly after the insulin increase. (He was on an increase 1.25 only 4 days & because he showed trace of ketones a lot of people told me to increase again. to 1.50)

He acts very nervous, lays by me then goes back to his chair tail swishing a lot He's been going back & forth all day & acts agitated. I have NEVER seen him act like this. That's why I can only associate it with the increase in Lantus. ( 2 increases in 4 days)

He went off the FFeast several days ago & has been eating his raw meat diet. He's asking for food every 2 hrs all night & all today.
 
@Magic Johnson

I didn't stop giving him FFeast he stopped eating it. I always offer him a couple different foods He chose to eat his raw meat. I think it's the healthiest thing he can eat right now. FFeast has artificial color & flavor in it! CHEMICALS!

I was upset when he stopped eating several weeks ago & when it was suggested i feed FF I was VERY upset. I don't care how many people feed it to Their cats I think it's just Garbage!

I let him have it out of desperation. I'm very glad now that he no longer wants it. I have 3 cats & the other 2 walk around it. won't even smell it.

I just noticed you just came to this forum March 2nd Is this the first time you have a cat with diabetes?
 
Joy I read that cats and dogs are able to convert protein and fat to satisfy their energy requirement

I find it amazing that Ravan can covert pure protein into a diabetic level of bloodsugar above 400 - that’s odd on a diet of no carbs at all

So to summarize everything you’ve told me today

A few days ago you raised his insulin

A few days ago he stopped eating FF and you’ve only been feeding raw meat - I did not get a response to balanced diet and supplements for the raw diet? Just referencing DR Lisa Piersen’s Raw diet recommendation as I don’t know what comprises your raw meat diet? She has various supplements such as ground bone, fish oil, taurine, vitamin E, vitamin B complex - this makes a balanced diet - im assuming you do this also???

AND. A few days ago you noticed these new symptoms

Is this all correct?
 
Magic Johnson said:
I agree :). Take splice in the fact that you are dealing with a very small amount of insulin- I check out a LOT of spreadsheets here and I’ve seen 10 units!

Ravan and Peggy Sue are lucky to have someone who cares so much for them

You’re lucky you are able to be there with them and not have to be away all day - THEREFORE you are in a great position to observe :)

I would not worry about hypo at this point - having had a hypo event it’s a gradual decent in overall numbers - so let’s say in the future Ravan starts in yellow and the pinks and reds disappear and so mid day you’re getting blues and greens only - and those numbers are getting lower and slowly you start the day in the high blues and then later down the road you start the day in low blues OK then your gonna need to start to look at the prospect of getting to low - to me your goal would be to try and get Ravan in a regular outta the pinks and reds :) at least for mid day numbers this way Ravans pancreas begins to have at chance at healing :). Slow and steady :)
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Sharon14 said:
Hi Joy, sorry I wasn’t able to reply earlier, but I have a sick kitty and have been back and forth to the vet and just busy watching my little Jack.:( Has anything changed other than the increase in insulin? Does Ravan seem to have any pain when you pet him? Check legs, belly and spine. My cat gets hungry and drinks a lot more when his numbers are high, and when he has normal or low numbers, not so much. There have been cats that reacted to Lantus (there’s a thread about it), but most are fine with it. As far as your SS, I’m no expert, but this AM he had a big drop from PS to +2 and that could be triggering a bounce to the 444 you’re seeing now. I’ll check in later, have to go give Jack his meds.
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hope jack gets to feeling better sharon
 
Yes - I’ve had 4 cats - this is the only cat I’ve had that developed diabetes

I understand your concern about FF as quality- I’ve begun trying a few new foods such as ZIWIpeak wet food and I might try feline natural lamb and chicken but I want to test Maji first BG tonight after 3 days on it to make sure no negatives before trying something new
 
@Magic Johnson
It's difficult to remember all the things people post.

Ravan went back to his Raw diet over a week ago.(there is some fat in the meat) & yes, there are all the needed supplements.

All three of my cats were raised on this raw meat diet & they've done well for nearly 16 yrs.

The excessive eating & drinking & agitation started the evening after I increased the Lantus.

Just so you know, I've been taking care of animals for about 52 yrs now. I'm new to diabetes. But not to Heart Disease, Cancer & a boat load of other medical issues.I do have quite a bit of "Years" of experience with animals.

May I ask where are you getting all your knowledge about Diabetes in cats?
 
JoyBee said:
@Magic Johnson
It's difficult to remember all the things people post.

Ravan went back to his Raw diet over a week ago.(there is some fat in the meat) & yes, there are all the needed supplements.

All three of my cats were raised on this raw meat diet & they've done well for nearly 16 yrs.

The excessive eating & drinking & agitation started the evening after I increased the Lantus.

Just so you know, I've been taking care of animals for about 52 yrs now. I'm new to diabetes. But not to Heart Disease, Cancer & a boat load of other medical issues.I do have quite a bit of "Years" of experience with animals.

May I ask where are you getting all your knowledge about Diabetes in cats?
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Here - from everything I’ve read from the collective experience that I’ve read on this site from all of the people here including Dr Pierson :)

If you don’t want me posting to you I’d be happy to stop - I was merely trying to help you in a time of need :)
 
@Magic Johnson
I would never want anyone that's trying to help Ravan to STOP! I very much appreciate your concern.

I was just wondering about your advice, if you have less experience than me?

I'm reading the posts also & read Dr. Piersons' info. I wish I could afford to pay her to look over Ravan's SS & give me her opinion.

If you come across anyone with the symptoms like Ravan I would appreciate if you pass it on to me.

I'm just tired & frustrated. I've been up every few hours checking on Ravan for a few weeks now. I get kinda "Wonkie" myself when I go without sleep .

Thank you for trying to support me in all this.
 
JoyBee said:
He acts very nervous, lays by me then goes back to his chair tail swishing a lot He's been going back & forth all day & acts agitated. I have NEVER seen him act like this. That's why I can only associate it with the increase in Lantus. ( 2 increases in 4 days)
Click to expand...

Has he been doing this since the increase on Tuesday, or just today?
 
@Sharon14

I increased in the PM on 4/10 .I noticed it the next morning & evening. Last night & today he was asking for food every 2 hrs & drinking water constantly. He seemed agitated. Right now he's been sleeping for about 2 hrs.

Could it be a reaction from 2 increases so close together?
 
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According to his SS, you were giving 1+u from 3/31-4/6 then increased to 1.25 from 4/6PM- 4/10AM, so 8 cycles, then increased to 1.5 on 4/10AM through today, so this is his 4th cycle on 1.5u. While that was a quicker increase for SLGS, people on TR increase every 6 cycles, so it’s not really too close together. It’s good that he’s sleeping. I hope whatever is agitating him resolves.
 
@Sharon14

Ravan's pmps374
I sat down for a few mins & fell asleep Almost missed his shot! ( I never fall asleep downstairs!!)

I've been getting up every few hrs for 2 wks. My body is trying to tell me Sleep.
 
Magic Johnson said:
Take solice in the fact that you are dealing with a very small amount of insulin- I check out a LOT of spreadsheets here and I’ve seen 10 units!
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Yes, Ravan's dose is relatively small. @Magic Johnson - You haven't been around that long. There is one big gulper here on a dose of 59 units, I've seen larger in my time here. But the majority of kitties here are under 5 units.

Ravan's still bouncing. Hopefully he'll come down tomorrow from the bounce. Plus the depot should be filling and letting you know what 1.5 units can really do. So far it looks like he's still spending way too much time over renal threshold, time will tell. But I wouldn't wait more than 7 days before evaluating this dose. He needs to get out of these high numbers.

@Sharon14 She increased a little sooner than SLGS states because she thought she was starting to see ketones. Although a little sooner, it was still a very safe amount of time between increases, given the great job on testing.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Yes, Ravan's dose is relatively small. @Magic Johnson - You haven't been around that long. There is one big gulper here on a dose of 59 units, I've seen larger in my time here. But the majority of kitties here are under 5 units.

Ravan's still bouncing. Hopefully he'll come down tomorrow from the bounce. Plus the depot should be filling and letting you know what 1.5 units can really do. So far it looks like he's still spending way too much time over renal threshold, time will tell. But I wouldn't wait more than 7 days before evaluating this dose. He needs to get out of these high numbers.

@Sharon14 She increased a little sooner than SLGS states because she thought she was starting to see ketones. Although a little sooner, it was still a very safe amount of time between increases, given the great job on testing.
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Thank you Wendy and Neko :). I once saw 59 units in a text and thought it was a typo! :nailbiting:

Glad you’re here with your expertise with this insulin as I did not use this type :)

While I realize I have not been around long - I’ve read a lot from this site which has helped
 
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