Previously controlled cat now having problems

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Pixxie037

Pixxie037

Member Since 2016
Hi, we have a diabetic who was previously controlled with wet food, after being on insulin for about 18 months. He was doing well for the past 6 months but has had a major set back the past month. We were feeding him fancy feast classic pates, and had changed his feedings to 4 x a day as he was never really able to make it 12 hours. After increased drinking/urinating a trip to the vet confirmed our fears. He's back on insulin. We started at 1 unit, now increased to 2 and he is drinking and peeing more than ever. We are trying to do 2 main feedings of the FF classics with 2 small snacks of the same to get him through to the next feeding as he is obnoxious after about 6 hours, meowing to the point of making himself vomit. I am thinking we need to cut him back to a straight 2 feedings a day, but don't know how really. Any input is appreciated. Thank you for reading this far if you have. We love our kitty and just want him to be healthy and happy.
 
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I should add, he also throws up stomach bile that smells like cat feces if we don't give in and feed him after 6 hours or so.
 
Good morning,
actually feeding smaller portions thru a day is better for their pancreas.
Twice a day feeding - 12 h apart - is an old way of thinking.
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
Good morning,
actually feeding smaller portions thru a day is better for their pancreas.
Twice a day feeding - 12 h apart - is an old way of thinking.
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He is on pro zinc insulin. We don't home test. We have never been successful. He only allows about 1 try before he flips out and his ears are notoriously hard to prick. I have only ever managed to get blood out 1 x in months of trying. The vet doesn't want to do a glucose curve there as going to the vet is a very traumatic experience for him, it stresses him out immensely, he even bit the vet tech last time, enough to draw blood. We now have a big angry red dot on our chart there for having a violent kitty, meanwhile, he is not violent with us at home, my 1 year old daughter is around him and I trust that completely. We are currently going by his symptoms for his treatment. He was fully controlled with just food before this. Though at that time we were mixing in merrick foods with the FF, but they seemed to cause him to throw up more, we stopped the merrick's about 3 or 4 months ago I think. I thought you had to feed mainly 2 meals every 12 hours for the insulin to work properly? We would love to go back to 4 meals a day.
 
As far as the ear prick, I have a hard time getting his vein and he usually does swat at me and run away after a couple of tries. That does make him sound violent, but it's more of a warning swat. Like I said, he's good with my daughter. He lets her pet him even when she gets a bit rough, though we watch them together very closely. I think she is contributing to his diabetes problems though. He doesn't get as much attention as he used to and now that she's walking, she does chase after him and try to pull his tail. Like I said, we watch them very closely and he always has places he can go to get away from her, but he's used to being the center of attention. And he likes to lie in the middle of the room or on our laps as much as possible. Which is much harder now that we have the little girl around.
 
Pixxie037 said:
I thought you had to feed mainly 2 meals every 12 hours for the insulin to work properly?
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just my thoughts: "properly" is , sadly, vary per cat greatly. I do not know any other way to figure out the optimal dose (a proper one ) but regular home testing.
I say it very rarely but I am with your vet on vetty stress - most cats hate office visits and a lot of them have much, much higher BG levels under stress.
More to come on ear pricks in a moment
 
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Pixxie037 said:
As far as the ear prick, I have a hard time getting his vein
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the spot between the vein and ear's edge is the best and the least painful spot for testing.
Not the vein itself.
HERE is the good info on the topic.

One of members @JanetNJ has the link to the best tutorial video on how to test your kitty. If she replies - check it out.
 
Pixxie037 said:
to get him through to the next feeding as he is obnoxious after about 6 hours, meowing to the point of making himself vomit.
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many cats including my girl Ducia vomit if their tummies are empty.
Feeding small portions and giving snacks - a small ones - helps great deal.

The fact that he eats but still acts hungry tells me that it is possible that his BG level is high - diabetics cannot process their foods properly and literally starve. Carefully adjusting the insulin dose - given that the BG leveles are monitored frequently at home so that cat doesn't go Hypoglycemic (which is often fatal) - will help you to get him better regulated - and he'll get back to normal eating.
 
Pixxie037 said:
He is on pro zinc insulin. We don't home test. We have never been successful.
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I have no personal experience with proZ but read a lot of good about it.
Home testing is easier to do than it may sound, honestly.
We can help you with that.

I reread your above post - the fact that drinking and peeing is increased is worrying.
How was he put back on insulin - by a single read at the vet or was there a Fructosamine (spelling?)test performed?
 
We had them do the senior wellness testing, which tests most of their systems I believe. They said everything else looks great. Though they did give him an antibiotic as they found some wbc in his urine. They also found some ketones in his urine. He was way more stressed than usual at the vet this time. He has never attacked them like that before. But I think it was the stress of the visit and one of the vet techs tried to pick him up to put him in his carrier and I had asked them not to as he will go in on his own after he's calmed down some. They also forcibly took him out of the carrier, so he was just very stressed. They are usually better with him too, but we were there longer than normal and I think everyone was getting tired.
 
They said we can do the fructosamine again to get another read of how he's trending, but we didn't want to take him back so soon after the last visit which was about 3 weeks ago.
 
Pixxie037 said:
They also found some ketones in his urine.
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well, that is not good at all, sorry to say that.
My girl had DKA a year ago and still test her urine for the ketones.
It is very serious complication of unregulated diabetes.

I have tons of good info for you - incl my experience which I'd love to share but all I know re: beating ketones down involves frequent home testing. Are you willing to try it? I hope you'll say yes...
 
Pixxie037 said:
Though they did give him an antibiotic as they found some wbc in his urine. They also found some ketones in his urine
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Did they say it was DKA?
Pixxie037 said:
he even bit the vet tech last time, enough to draw blood. We now have a big angry red dot on our chart there for having a violent kitty, meanwhile, he is not violent with us at home,
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If they tested via poking the vein - it is painful, I cannot blame him for becoming violent after that.
Using the spot between the vein and the ear's edge is the thing.
 
They did a venous draw as they were testing all of his major bodily systems for the senior cat wellness testing. We haven't tried the home testing since our daughter was born. It was just too much for us. We have a hard enough time with my husband and I working for 9-10 hours a day, taking care of the baby and then adding the stress of the cat testing, we just haven't been able to do it. I don't even know where to start, we were so frustrated with it last time. I could not get blood. I tried massaging his ear with a rice sock, tried with the pen with the tip on, tip off, just the plan lancet, most often when I got blood it was because I shot right through the cat's ear into my own finger. When I did manage to get his ear, but the time I massaged the ear and managed to get a small drop of blood, the machine had turned off. After 3 or 4 tries of this, kitty would get sick of it and run and hide.
 
We attempted daily for a few weeks and managed 1 or 2 readings. I do work from home 4 days a week, so I could conceivably do it on my 3 breaks a day, if he was amenable and if I could get that darn vein.
 
I thought maybe feeding him 4 x a day was contributing to his uncontrolled diabetes. When they are getting insulin, don't they need to be fed each time they get their injection? And can't feeding them in between mess up their glucose from the insulin?
 
Pixxie037 said:
We attempted daily for a few weeks and managed 1 or 2 readings. I do work from home 4 days a week, so I could conceivably do it on my 3 breaks a day, if he was amenable and if I could get that darn vein.
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have you got a chance to check out the link i posted as HERE in my reply #8?

There are techniques to get kitty to cooperate w/ testing and many cats get used to eat very quickly. (Tip: a small treat before and/or after an attempt to test works miracles.) We can help with it.

The presence of ketones is very serious situation. I would like it very much if you could speak with other members of this Board. Might I ask yo to include words "ketones positive" into the Title line of your post? It'll grab the attention of many.
We have many ppl w/ great experience whose opinion might be very useful for you and your kitty.
 
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Pixxie037 said:
I thought maybe feeding him 4 x a day was contributing to his uncontrolled diabetes.
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I do not think so.
Pixxie037 said:
When they are getting insulin, don't they need to be fed each time they get their injection?
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they MUST eat before the injection, and some later on - when the BG goes down at a peak performance time -or you are risking Hypo.
Pixxie037 said:
And can't feeding them in between mess up their glucose from the insulin?
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Every cat is different (ECID)- mine eats multiple time throughout a day , often as late as 9 or 10 hours after the injection and she is fine.
Speaking to as many ppl on here - hearing and comparing experiences - would be a great help. As many cats we have - as many feeding schedules and menus we've seen.
 
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Pixxie037 said:
They did a venous draw as they were testing all of his major bodily systems for the senior cat wellness testing. We haven't tried the home testing since our daughter was born. It was just too much for us. We have a hard enough time with my husband and I working for 9-10 hours a day, taking care of the baby and then adding the stress of the cat testing, we just haven't been able to do it. I don't even know where to start, we were so frustrated with it last time. I could not get blood. I tried massaging his ear with a rice sock, tried with the pen with the tip on, tip off, just the plan lancet, most often when I got blood it was because I shot right through the cat's ear into my own finger. When I did manage to get his ear, but the time I massaged the ear and managed to get a small drop of blood, the machine had turned off. After 3 or 4 tries of this, kitty would get sick of it and run and hide.
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I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home. The first week can be tricky to get blood... Try buying 26 or 28 gauge lancets as they are a little thicker than the ones that are in the 30's.
 
Pixxie037 said:
I thought maybe feeding him 4 x a day was contributing to his uncontrolled diabetes. When they are getting insulin, don't they need to be fed each time they get their injection? And can't feeding them in between mess up their glucose from the insulin?
Click to expand...
You can feed any time except no food at least 2 hours prior to the preshot test so the number is not food influenced.
 
Have you tried remaining very calm as your cat will sense your stress? Sing hum & syke yourself into being laid back! Take some regular white rice (not instant) and put it in a sock & tie to make a little bag. Warm it for a few,10-15 seconds, in the microwave. The warm ear & massaged well will produce a drop. This gets easier as time goes on. Then do not push the test strip all the way in & poke. Push the test strip in & continue massaging if needed bottom of ear up, to push the blood up. Patience... test. In the beginning my cat went crazy, hid, I was just was so stressed. I started singing, humming to myself & being very calm & patient.
Another way is to desensitize. Pick your cat up & take him to one main spot you select where you will test. Just pet him & speak calmly without testing. Always give him a treat for this! Low carb preferably. Do this occasionally throughout the day to show him it’s ok.
Also I hope you’ve looked at the pics of the correct poke spot. It’s the capillaries you are aiming for. All of this is difficult at first, I think I had a mini breakdown. My Baby does not like any of this but now but we handle it calmly. It’s gotten so much easier! I’m no pro but we have come a long way!!! I hope anything I’ve said might help... good luck & please try. You have to get the numbers for his sake! It could mean his life ....
 
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