High glucose/not eating

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JoyBee&Ravan

JoyBee&Ravan

Member Since 2018
My cat Ravan is 15 yrs old He's been raised on a raw meat diet all his life. 8 months ago he refused to eat his raw chicken (1st time?) He'll eat some cooked & he'll eat the Instinct Rabbit. End of January he was diagnosed with diabetes.Lantus 2X a day 1 unit. I test his blood before his shot am & pm & have checked it several times in between. I'll try to fill out a spreadsheet tomorrow. Four days ago at 9am his glucose was 352 I gave his 1 unit of Lantus after he ate. At 8:30 pm glucose dropped to 68 so I skipped the insulin.the next morning at 3:30 glucose 404, 9:am 392 after he ate I gave him 1 unit of Lantus at 9pm it was 306
I'll skip to today ( you'll be able to see his readings when i fill out the spreadsheet) Yesterday at 8:30 pm his reading was 348 I was cutting up a large piece of liver to give him a little before his shot & went upstairs for a minute. Ravan ate the entire large piece of liver. The next morning (today) at 4:30am glucose 406 8:40am 425 11:50 449 he hasn't had any food since the liver yesterday.I did give him 100cc of ringers. He's not drinking water either. Checked at 4:30 pm 429 he finally ate a spoon of sardines at about 8:30 tonight at 9pm his glucose was 390 I gave him 1 unit of Lantus.
Now I'm worried his glucose might drop very low like it did several days ago to 68. I also gave him a syringe of chicken baby food before his shot.I'll check his glucose again at 1130pm to see if it's dropping.I haven't slept much in 24 hrs & feel very stressed out.I did buy the strips to check ketones but he's not drinking or peeing for several hrs now.Should I be feeding him with a syringe every few hours? This is all overwhelming!
 
Ketone test is a must. Try to syringe some watery food into him if he refuses plain water. A trip to the vet might be necessary if you can't get a ketone test done at home.
Are you using the alphatrak? 68 isn't too low on a human meter but it is the "act now" number on the AT meter.
I'm thinking it might be possible he's got an upset stomach from that extra liver he ate but with his higher numbers my first thought is ketones.
 
I'm using a Relion Prime meter 11:30 last nite glucose was 377 3am checked his glucose (6 hrs after insulin) it's down to 213 Checked ketones Negative! He ate about a tbl.spoon of Instinct Rabbit canned food. I think him eating all that liver caused him not to eat & maybe his glucose to stay so high. Does that sound right?
If his glucose comes down more do I still give 1 unit of Lantus at 9am,his regular time? Or should I give less? He's also drinking water now. I'll check again at about 7:30 am.
 
JoyBee said:
I'm using a Relion Prime meter 11:30 last nite glucose was 377 3am checked his glucose (6 hrs after insulin) it's down to 213 Checked ketones Negative! He ate about a tbl.spoon of Instinct Rabbit canned food. I think him eating all that liver caused him not to eat & maybe his glucose to stay so high. Does that sound right?
If his glucose comes down more do I still give 1 unit of Lantus at 9am,his regular time? Or should I give less? He's also drinking water now. I'll check again at about 7:30 am.
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I’d give the 1 u dose this AM. It’s great that ketones were negative. You should keep a close eye on him today, feed small amounts regularly and keep getting water or watery food into him. Do the testing routine I put into one of my posts on your other thread. Keep posting here for help and to let us know how it’s going.
 
Ravan woke me up at 6am, hungry, I thought Oh his glucose must be low . It's down to 163! He ate about 1 1/2 oz. of chicken in gravy Soulistic. I'm concerned his Glucose will keep going lower. 5 days ago he was eating but his glucose went from 352 to 68 in 12 hrs. Thank god it didn't go any lower. I did NOT give him the Lantus & it slowly came up to 208. If I had given him the shot I'm sure it would have gone a lot lower. I'll check him again this morning in an hour. I thought if it's below 150 no insulin?
 
163 is good and he’s eating, that’s great!!! Normal glucose in cats with a human meter is 50-120, so you’re safe. Test again when you can and of course before you’re ready to shoot. Since you’re testing and he’s eating better, I would agree with Kris, that unless he’s real low at shot time, you would give the shot. Just post back with the number and we’ll help.
 
Should I post back here for you to reply or just stay on the main forum?

Ok I see that you are going to the main forum to check on me. I'll just post here. Thanks guys! It's taking me a while but I'm getting the hang of it.

I downloaded the spreadsheet, where can i see one filled out?

7am glucose 260. It went up from the food. His regular shot is between 8:30 & 9am

If his glucose is still over 200 should I give 1 unit as usual or maybe 1/2 unit to be safe it won't drop way down?
 
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I'm here. I'll be going out for a while later on but can check in often today. Here's some useful info (already gave you some of this):

It would help us if you set up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
  • click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
  • click on "signature" in the men that drops down
  • type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using /glucose meter you're using/what he eats/any other meds or health issues he has.
Another thing that will help us help you is to set up a spreadsheet like the one we use here. We can all see it and look at it before offering advice: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
Here's a link to an explanation of how the spreadsheet works: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

If you reread the instructions for setting up the spreadsheet (SS) it tells you in there to click on the blue "share" button at the top right. You have to click "anyone with link can view" and input the URL for the SS in the bar that's there.

Also - copy and paste your SS URL into your signature so we can see it when we click on that link.

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Here's the basic testing routine we recommend:
  1. test every day AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before) to see if the planned dose is safe
  2. test at least once near mid cycle or at bedtime daily to see how low the BG goes
  3. do extra tests on days off to fill in the response picture
  4. if indicated by consistently high numbers on your SS, increase the dose by no more than 0.25 u at a time so you don't accidentally go right past a good dose
  5. post here for advice whenever you're confused or unsure of what to do.
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Here's an explanation of what we call "bouncing". It explains why a kitty's BG can go from low to sky high:
  1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
  2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
  3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
  4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
  5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
  6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.
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Here are some tips on how to do urine ketone testing (VERY important of BG is high and kitty isn't eating well!):
  • put the end of the test strip right in his urine stream as he's peeing
  • slip a shallow, long handled spoon under his backside to catch a little pee - you don't need much
  • put a double layer of plastic wrap over his favourite part of the litter box and poke some depressions in it too catch pee.
Most test strips have to be dipped and allowed to develop for 15 seconds before viewing the colour change in very good light.
 
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Re filled in SS: if you want to see any of our SSs just click on the blue link in our grey signature text below our posts.

Re no shot BG for today: post your morning BG test number here as soon as you get it. If it's at or very near 200 you should give 1 u of Lantus. Get another BG test at +2 (SS lingo = 2 hours after the injection). If it's similar to this AM's pre shot BG test or a bit higher you probably won't see a big drop. Is it's 50+points lower, plan to test at +3, +4, etc.
 
Since you shot at 9:30 last night, you need to shoot no earlier than 9 this AM. We try to stay as close to 12 hours as possible, and only change dose times by 15 min to a half hour at a time. Kris gave you a lot of good info. Check it out and ask any questions.
Short answer to your dosing question is to give the one unit, but post here with the number first. He’s eating now and you’re testing plenty often enough to catch any low numbers.
 
Sharon14 said:
Since you shot at 9:30 last night, you need to shoot no earlier than 9 this AM. We try to stay as close to 12 hours as possible, and only change dose times by 15 min to a half hour at a time. Kris gave you a lot of good info. Check it out and ask any questions.
Short answer to your dosing question is to give the one unit, but post here with the number first. He’s eating now and you’re testing plenty often enough to catch any low numbers.
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Thanks for catching the dose timing thing, Sharon. :)
 
Ravan's glucose 9am 361 He doesn't want to eat because he ate 1/2 can of food 2 hrs ago. Do I still give a full dose 1 unit or less? Last shot was at 9:30pm his glucose was 390 1 unit of Lantus brought it down to 163 in about 8 hrs?
Spreadsheet, do I fill it out on the computer ? I was looking at the directions & I think I have information overload combined with little sleep. I didn't find where it said if I fill it out on line or not. I'll look at it more closely later today.
 
JoyBee said:
Ravan's glucose 9am 361 He doesn't want to eat because he ate 1/2 can of food 2 hrs ago. Do I still give a full dose 1 unit or less? Last shot was at 9:30pm his glucose was 390 1 unit of Lantus brought it down to 163 in about 8 hrs?
Spreadsheet, do I fill it out on the computer ? I was looking at the directions & I think I have information overload combined with little sleep. I didn't find where it said if I fill it out on line or not. I'll look at it more closely later today.
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Yes to 1 unit this AM. There are techie folks here to set up the SS for you: @Chris & China ?
 
I gave Ravan his 1 unit of Lantus at 9:30 also a syringe with baby food I'll check him again at noon.

1:15pm Checked his glucose it's 467 ! why is it going so high? He had 1 unit of Lantus at 9:30am glucose was 361 I was worried it would go too low.
 
He may be bouncing. Sometimes when a cats glucose drops lower than they are used to the body releases stored glucose and the bg ‘bounces’ high. They do not have to drop very low for this to happen.
 
I always get very worried when his glucose so high. Is there anything I can do to bring it down? He won't get his second shot till 9:30pm. I've been checking his glucose all night so neither of us got much sleep. He's "Very " soundly sleeping since i checked at 1:30. I think I'll wait till about 5pm to check again. I know I should check every 2 hrs to get the curve but he really hates getting poked in the ear Now when he sees me he runs. Ravan is nearly 16 yrs old. I don't want to constantly stress him out.
 
JoyBee said:
I always get very worried when his glucose so high. Is there anything I can do to bring it down? He won't get his second shot till 9:30pm. I've been checking his glucose all night so neither of us got much sleep. He's "Very " soundly sleeping since i checked at 1:30. I think I'll wait till about 5pm to check again. I know I should check every 2 hrs to get the curve but he really hates getting poked in the ear Now when he sees me he runs. Ravan is nearly 16 yrs old. I don't want to constantly stress him out.
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Once you set up a spreadsheet and start tracking his BG numbers patterns will appear. Without that data we're just guessing. In the short term it's better to be high than too low. You don't need to do a full curve to figure out his patterns. Go back and reread my post #11 above to check the testing routine we recommend and the explanation of why BG can go from low to high so quickly.

Please do take up Chris (&China)'s offer to set up a spreadsheet for you. We rely on it heavily to figure out dosing.
 
There’s not much you can do at this point. If you contact Chris, she will help you get the spreadsheet going. That will help us see if this is a bounce or not. Just click on her picture and then on ‘start a conversation’
Is he eating better today? Is it low carb food?
 
She may not be around right now. If you don’t hear from her by tonight, we’ll tag her again.
 
The first time I locked the conversation so I did it again just now & left it open Which way is correct?

I did the signature,Is it OK? Is there anything else i should add?
 
if you want to try, send me a conversation and I’ll let you know if it comes through. I’m somewhat computer illiterate...
 
Ravan is not eating or drinking water all day. He acts Nauseous everytime I give insulin & all day. ( I did give him Pepcid but it didn't seem to help) I offered him several different foods but he just turns away, same when i offer water. He's been sleeping all day. He looks very lethargic ,depressed. I tried to give him baby food in a syringe & he struggled so much I felt terrible forcing him.I decided to wait till about 8:30 to check his glucose if it's still high should I give him the regular 1 unit of Lantus? Should I force feed him? This is such a roller coaster ride!
 
JoyBee said:
Ravan is not eating or drinking water all day. He acts Nauseous everytime I give insulin & all day. ( I did give him Pepcid but it didn't seem to help) I offered him several different foods but he just turns away, same when i offer water. He's been sleeping all day. He looks very lethargic ,depressed. I tried to give him baby food in a syringe & he struggled so much I felt terrible forcing him.I decided to wait till about 8:30 to check his glucose if it's still high should I give him the regular 1 unit of Lantus? Should I force feed him? This is such a roller coaster ride!
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I suggest you consult your vet about anti nausea and appetite stimulant meds if Cerenia isn't helping. I think you mentioned trying Cerenia in an earlier post, didn't you?
 
I have a problem with giving Pharmaceuticals. I'm 71 & do not take any meds. I have always tried to use Homeopathic or natural products. My cat Jai was given Buprenorphine ( it states on the web site not to give it to an animal with respiratory problems "can cause respiratory distress" but the vet gave it to him & he did go into respiratory distress & had to be euthanized. In my life I have found many Vets & Doctors concerned more with the money than the wellbeing of their patient. (no I never used Cerenia) Next I'll try slippery elm. I do think the Insulin makes him feel sick,nauseous.
I'll try to work on the spreadsheet tomorrow. What info do you need from me?
 
Looking back over this thread, it looks like he ate pretty well this AM. Is he normally a good eater or picky? I prefer not to use meds too, but it’s important that he eat. Not enough calories can cause ketones, but also hepatic lipidosis. Try the slippery elm tonight. Hopefully it will work.
 
Thanks Sharon I'm feeling pretty down right now. Getting ready to check Ravan's glucose. I'll post the result in a little while.

His reading is higher than it was at 1:15 today It's now 474? He hasn't eaten all day why is it going higher? I am so worried. Yesterday at this time he was at 390 after the insulin it dropped to 163 in 8 hrs It looks like it will probably do that again.
Even though it's high do I still need to get food into him before the shot?
 
It’s good if you can get something in him. Have you given the slippery elm? I’ve taken that myself and it works well. How long does it take to start to work? If he’s not feeling well, the stress and any inflammation could be causing higher numbers. Has he been peeing and pooping normally?
 
I'll give him the slippery elm a few mins before I try to feed him at about 9:15 He gets his shot at 9:30 tonight. No BM today he hasn't eaten anything since this morning at 6am it was only about a tablespoon of canned food. He did pee a lot this afternoon. He doesn't even want to drink water.
Do I still give him the regular dose of insulin? I'm worried it will drop the glucose really low like yesterday.
 
JoyBee said:
I'll give him the slippery elm a few mins before I try to feed him at about 9:15 He gets his shot at 9:30 tonight. No BM today he hasn't eaten anything since this morning at 6am it was only about a tablespoon of canned food. He did pee a lot this afternoon. He doesn't even want to drink water.
Do I still give him the regular dose of insulin? I'm worried it will drop the glucose really low like yesterday.
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That 163 from yesterday isn't that low, if that's the low number you're referring to. Low is below 50 on a human meter. He needs insulin because he could very easily develop ketones. Try syringing a bit of pureed food into him and give the 1 unit dose.
 
163 isn’t too low, especially 8 hours after the shot. It’s actually a pretty good number. Normal on a human meter is 50-120. Were you able to get a nap today?
 
I slept for a few hours. Thanks for asking. I'm feeling depressed. This up down , up down is hard to deal with. For Ravan & for me (his sister Peggy Sue has High liver enzymes They think it'd pancreatitis . So she's not eating either. )
I just got Ravan & her to eat about a tablespoon of Canned Wild caught Tuna. Just plain,no salt, in water.( the slippery elm does help) I hate to give him fish. I don't think it's good for him but I guess it's better than nothing?

163 is a good reading but I was checking him every hour worried it would go much lower. One time it dropped to 68. I'm going to give him his 1 unit of Lantus now. I just hope the glucose doesn't go too low.
Thanks to you all. You can't imagine how much I appreciate your help. I've lived alone for a long time & it's nice to has some one to talk to.
 
Glad they both ate a little. What are you doing for Peggy Sue’s liver enzymes? Have you tried Milk Thistle?
 
YES, She had blood work last summer & her enzymes were high. The vet wanted to sell me some product he recommended. I asked to see the bottle & the main ingredient was Milk Thistle. I told him no, I wanted to try the milk thistle I had at home. He was not happy about that (his little bottle cost $57)
I gave her milk thistle mixed in baby food & a little distilled water every day for a month. Had blood work done again & her enzymes were way down! I'm still giving her the milk thistle but she is looking sick & barely eating. I'm worried it's her liver enzymes up again & this time the milk thistle doesn't seem to be helping.Her & Ravan are from a litter of 5 that were born in my garage. After feeding them every 2 hrs for days(the mother cat got hit by a car,kittens were only a few days old) I kept them all! In the last 2 years 3 have died. One had heart disease, the other cancer & the last one was Ok one day & dead the next. Don't have any idea what happened to her.I have a very difficult time when i lose one of my kitties.Now I'm worried sick about the last two. My other cats from years ago all lived to be at least 19 some to 22 yrs old. I was so hoping Ravan & Peggy Sue would also live a long life.
I'm going to get some sleep I'll check Ravan a 3am Yesterday his glucose dropped 177 points by 3:30am.
 
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Wow 19-22 years is great. You must be doing something right! I’ve had several live into 20’s too. It’s always so hard to loose our babies.
Do try to get some sleep.
 
Ravan's glucose was still high at 6am 414 He came to his dish to eat but barely ate a spoonful He still looks nauseous. The slippery elm helps but i'm not sure how often he can get it. I think it interferes with digesting the food. (Yesterday at 6am his glucose was 163.) At 9am he did eat another spoon of food so i gave him 1 unit of Lantus at 9:30
Last week his glucose wa 352 at 9am & dropped to 68 by 9pm (I will work on the spreadsheet today. ) I don't want to keep checking his blood every 2 hrs. He cringes when i come toward him or runs & hides. He's never done that in 15 yrs. It's breaking my heart to see him like this.
Ketones negative at 6am
 
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JoyBee said:
Ravan's glucose was still high at 6am 414 He came to his dish to eat but barely ate a spoonful He still looks nauseous. The slippery elm helps but i'm not sure how often he can get it. I think it interferes with digesting the food. (Yesterday at 6am his glucose was 163.) At 9am he did eat another spoon of food so i gave him 1 unit of Lantus at 9:30
Last week his glucose wa 352 at 9am & dropped to 68 by 9pm (I will work on the spreadsheet today. ) I don't want to keep checking his blood every 2 hrs. He cringes when i come toward him or runs & hides. He's never done that in 15 yrs. It's breaking my heart to see him like this.
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He might not have another drop like that from 1 u this week. Their insulin needs change often. We tend to focus on a few days at a time only although the older data is good history. You don't have to check him every 2 hours. The goal is to see how low a dose gets him so be strategic in your testing and aim to test when the Lantus dose should be at its peak action - usually somewhere around 5 to 7 hours after the dose.
 
Thanks Kris, I'm just starting to fill out the spreadsheet,can I start with two weeks ago or is it better to go back to the beginning?

I've been looking at the other spreadsheets but I don't see Chris & China's ?
 
Yes, put all your data going back to date of diagnosis. In the right hand "notes" section of the spreadsheet include any key information like a food change, vet visit, supplements change and so on beside the relevant dates.
 
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