Bubba 3.13 AMPS= 125, +3 =77,+7.5=68

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bobbie And Bubba

Bobbie And Bubba

Member Since 2015
Yesterday

Good Morning L & L ~

Bubba gave me a green start last night! He's coming down, (anti-jinx).

Question: I weighed him last night and he's gain 1 pound! Could be due to inactivity since he's been grounded for 7 months......or could be his thyroid function which was on the low side a year 1/2 ago. Doc said nothing to do unless he starts gaining weight. I am going to try to get him moving more and reduce his calories a bit. Any one with any knowledge or HYPO thyroid in cats. Meds safe?? It's supposedly rarer in cats than dogs.

We are getting another snow storm, Oh Boy! Momma has an appointment about 30 minutes away and am hoping for safe roads.
 
Good morning , Bobbie :) Glad to hear your vet embraces the possibility of hypothyroid in a cat . Many just flatly won’t . Elmo has been hyperthyroid with hypo symptoms :( but that cleared up after our diabetes experience so now is classic hyperthyroid . I’m looking forward to anyone with hypo experience to weigh in :)
 
The more I look into hypothyroidism, I think we also need to do more tests since the T4 # can still be in the normal range from what I have read. Bronx has all the signs (weight gain, lethargy, dandruff, etc) since a side effect of radiation therapy near the thyroid can cause hypothyroidism. His lower neck hair has become tanish-brown and does not like it at all when I rub near the thyroid area. I guess an IM vet visit is in order:(. Any questions you want me to ask the IM vet for you Bobbie?
 
Hi Bobbie! I take it Bubba has never had hyperthyroidism? If so, then primary hypothyroidism is extremely rare, but not unheard of. I can point you to the group I belong to .. https://groups.io/g/FelineThyroidManagement
Ro is the moderator and she has tons of knowledge on both hyper and hypothyroidism.

If you suspect hypoT, then you will need to run a full thyroid panel. Only T4 doesn't tell you the story if hypoT is in the picture. I think there are only 3 labs that run the full labs - MSU, ANTECH, and Hemopet. You need T4, free T4, T3, free T3, and TSH.

I have been dealing with both hyper/hypoT for almost 5 years. My civvie Tanner has been hypoT since his i131 4 years ago. He is now taking Armour Thyroid, which is natural, so it is not harsh like the meds for hyperT.
 
Nice numbers for Bubba. I hope you can figure out what is causing the weight gain. Stay safe in that weather. Sending prayers.
 
Hi Bobbie! :bighug::bighug::bighug:

It is extremely rare for a cat to be hypothyroid unless it has had some type of radiation treatment such as I131 or SRT. The latter, where treatment causes the hypoT, is called iatrogenic hypothyroidism.

What was his tT4 value? Where many vets miss the boat on a cat that has never had radiation but the thyroid is low is a condition called euthyroid sick syndrome also known as non-thyroidal illness syndrome” meaning the thyroid isn’t the issue. This is a situation where another condition causes the thyroid level to appear lower than it actually is.

I might suggest you see if your vet will draw the blood for a thyroid panel to be sent to Hemopet. The test you want is the Feline Profile 4 and the instructions for the vet are on the last page. With euthyroid sick syndrome, the tT3 and fT3 will be markedly lower than the tT4. Dr. Dodds is a whiz at identifying euthyroid sick syndrome.

Your vet will likely charge you to draw the blood and put it in the correct tubes (my vet charges $15) and then you can mail it yourself to Dr. Dodds. I actually got my vet hooked on Hemopet and she now runs all thyroid labs through them and none through the regular labs. It’s cheaper, too :)

Also, Gus had iatrogenic hypoT due to I131.
 
I was briefly on the thyroid group that Mandy mentions. It's a good one. Neko's full and free T4 was low (we got periodic testing after SRT), so I joined the group. I was worried she had gone hypoT after SRT like a handful of cats have done. She then had the full thyroid panel done (at MSU) and her T4 numbers had come up by then. :rolleyes: She had euthyroid sick syndrome but whatever underlying was causing it went away.

Good luck with the weight loss. How long a period was the 1 lb weight gain?
 
Mandy & Rex said:
If you do go through Hemopet, make sure you select TSH Add-on that is towards the bottom of the list of tests you want to order. Keep us posted on what you do!! :bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...
The TSH is helpful but not required to diagnose euthyroid sick syndrome. If money is an issue, it’s not required but if money is no issue, it is helpful.
 
Bronx's dad said:
The more I look into hypothyroidism, I think we also need to do more tests since the T4 # can still be in the normal range from what I have read. Bronx has all the signs (weight gain, lethargy, dandruff, etc) since a side effect of radiation therapy near the thyroid can cause hypothyroidism. His lower neck hair has become tanish-brown and does not like it at all when I rub near the thyroid area. I guess an IM vet visit is in order:(. Any questions you want me to ask the IM vet for you Bobbie?
Click to expand...
My biggest concern is the treatment and how safe would it be for a diabetic cat. I know a lot of cats are hyper thyroid but not hypo.
 
IMG_4983.JPG
Marje and Gracie said:
Hi Bobbie! :bighug::bighug::bighug:

It is extremely rare for a cat to be hypothyroid unless it has had some type of radiation treatment such as I131 or SRT. The latter, where treatment causes the hypoT, is called iatrogenic hypothyroidism.

What was his tT4 value? Where many vets miss the boat on a cat that has never had radiation but the thyroid is low is a condition called euthyroid sick syndrome also known as non-thyroidal illness syndrome” meaning the thyroid isn’t the issue. This is a situation where another condition causes the thyroid level to appear lower than it actually is.

I might suggest you see if your vet will draw the blood for a thyroid panel to be sent to Hemopet. The test you want is the Feline Profile 4 and the instructions for the vet are on the last page. With euthyroid sick syndrome, the tT3 and fT3 will be markedly lower than the tT4. Dr. Dodds is a whiz at identifying euthyroid sick syndrome.

Your vet will likely charge you to draw the blood and put it in the correct tubes (my vet charges $15) and then you can mail it yourself to Dr. Dodds. I actually got my vet hooked on Hemopet and she now runs all thyroid labs through them and none through the regular labs. It’s cheaper, too :)

Also, Gus had iatrogenic hypoT due to I131.
Click to expand...
The vet that noted his thyroid function was low said she has NEVER treated a cat with Hypo. I asked at that time what does this means to us and she responded, "nothing to do now unless he starts to become lethargic and gain weight". Well, since his outdoor privileges were suspended, he does nothing but eat and sleep and he seemed depressed. Lately, he has seemed to make peace with it and doesn't even cry to go outside anymore.

I need to get his labs filled in to his SS. I found the most recent lab report and it's from 8/9/17 prior to his dental. Lab IDEXX Reference Laboratory.
Test T4 Result 1.6 Reference 0.8-4.7 I am attaching his prior lab work from 9.9.16 for the T4 part. It looks to me like it had improved in the most recent lab of 9/17.

Thanks for looking at this. I want to stay on top of it as his weight contributed to his diabetes ( 23 lbs prior to DX) and I don't want any issues. Also with something underlying ( euthyroid sick syndrome) I worry because of the previous cancer.

Absolutely welcome back!!!!

ETA: The Free T4 on 8/17 lab was 0.6
 
Last edited:
Wendy&Neko said:
How long a period was the 1 lb weight gain?
Click to expand...
He was 17.8 on 2.11.18 and two months before that he was 17.4 and was hanging out at that weight for almost a year. Maybe he's full of poop or it's just inactivity from not being outdoors hunting on his beat.:rolleyes:

ETA: And now he's 18.4
 
Last edited:
Thanks for this thread Bobbie & all that chimed in, this was the kick in the butt I needed to get the full panel tests.

Bobbie And Bubba said:
My biggest concern is the treatment and how safe would it be for a diabetic cat. I know a lot of cats are hyper thyroid but not hypo.
Click to expand...
I will ask the IM vet after Bronx gets the results from the blood I will have drawn at my local vet. But I think the folks here often have better answers!
 
Mandy & Rex said:
Hi Bobbie! I take it Bubba has never had hyperthyroidism? If so, then primary hypothyroidism is extremely rare, but not unheard of. I can point you to the group I belong to .. https://groups.io/g/FelineThyroidManagement
Ro is the moderator and she has tons of knowledge on both hyper and hypothyroidism.

If you suspect hypoT, then you will need to run a full thyroid panel. Only T4 doesn't tell you the story if hypoT is in the picture. I think there are only 3 labs that run the full labs - MSU, ANTECH, and Hemopet. You need T4, free T4, T3, free T3, and TSH.

I have been dealing with both hyper/hypoT for almost 5 years. My civvie Tanner has been hypoT since his i131 4 years ago. He is now taking Armour Thyroid, which is natural, so it is not harsh like the meds for hyperT.
Click to expand...
Hi Mandy, no Bubba was never hyperthyroid. The vet said the same thing about it being very rare and said she's never treated a cat with hypo.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
My biggest concern is the treatment and how safe would it be for a diabetic cat.
Click to expand...
We have had a couple of acro cats who got hypoT from SRT (punkin/Julie, Grayson/Lu-Ann). Medication did not negatively impact the diabetes. Neko's euthyroid sick syndrome may or may not have impacted her numbers. That was around the time she got her heart and lymphoma diagnosis and more meds thrown into the mix. It didn't materially change her dose - I might have tweaked a bit. Hyperthyroidism can make it more difficult to regulate a cat, but we've had hyperT cats go OTJ. Not enough experience here with hypoT cats, apart from the acros. Take a look at Punkin's SS, starting early March 2013. He definitely felt better on the thyroid meds.

Sounds like it's time for another full blood panel anyway if the last one was August.
 
TSH=Thyroid Stimulating Hormone

If it is high, that means it's trying very hard to stimulate the thyroid, but not getting enough 'feedback' so it keeps working to get what it needs (T4 to be produced). That's my layman's terms -- I'm sure someone else will have a better way to explain it.
 
Hypothyroidism due to euthyroid sick syndrome is not usually treated. The thyroid is actually working properly but the concurrent issue causes it to look like it isn’t working properly. Treatment of ESS usually involves identifying and treating the concurrent health issue causing it.

Iatrogenic hypothyroidism, again due to over treatment of I131 or SRT, is usually treated with supplemented thyroid medication. These medications are not harmful at all long term in contrast to the meds (e.g. felimazole, tapezole, methimazole) given for hyperthyroidism which do have long term side effects. That’s why if I ever have a kitty dx with HyperT, I won’t even start meds....I’ll just get I131 immediately done.

Bobbie....you can do the Plus if you want a more recent full panel than what you have but, otherwise, I’d just do the regular feline thyroid 4 panel and add on the TSH if you have some extra dollars. It’s one more piece of the puzzle. Have you kept a log of his weight to know whether he usually gains weight in the winter or when he is housebound? I weigh Liv and Tobey weekly and, in the winter, their weight goes up a bit because they don’t spend much time at all on the catio. Spring through fall, they are out there a lot and they are up and down on the condos, racing in and around the house and through the “escape hatch”, etc. Remember that Bubba is also getting older and so he’s likely to slow down. There is a difference between lethargy and just being a cat that is getting older and sleeps a little more. So try and think about whether he’s really lethargic or he’s just bored so he sleeps :):):) ESS cats would likely have inappetence, bad coats with dandruff, lethargy, and weight gain.

Bronx's dad said:
What does the TSH # tell you?
Click to expand...
The TSH is thyroid stimulating hormone. If the T4 and T3 drops, the TSH increases to raise the other values. Typically, in iatrogenic hypothyroidism, the TSH would be expected to be high. In ESS, you might see the TSH being normal even though the T4 and T3 values might be low. Again...its another good piece of the puzzle.

Dr. Dodds used to include a TSH in another feline thyroid profile but now it’s an add on. Not sure why.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Have you kept a log of his weight to know whether he usually gains weight
Click to expand...
Since he had ketones and went down to 13 lbs. :eek: and put back on some weight, he has been pretty much 17 -17.4 lbs. Last year in Feb he was 17.2. May 17.4, and Nov, 17 even. He has pretty much help that weight until I weighed him yesterday and he was 18.4.

Marje and Gracie said:
So try and think about whether he’s really lethargic or he’s just bored so he sleeps :):):) ESS cats would likely have inappetence, bad coats with dandruff, lethargy, and weight gain.
Click to expand...
He's most likely bored. He hops to it when it's time to eat, sleeps a lot probably out of boredom. Momma ordered him some new interactive toys that I should get tomorrow.

Thanks for looking, I appreciate it. :bighug::):cat::kiss: Time for some BW.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Since he had ketones and went down to 13 lbs. :eek: and put back on some weight, he has been pretty much 17 -17.4 lbs. Last year in Feb he was 17.2. May 17.4, and Nov, 17 even. He has pretty much help that weight until I weighed him yesterday and he was 18.4.


He's most likely bored. He hops to it when it's time to eat, sleeps a lot probably out of boredom. Momma ordered him some new interactive toys that I should get tomorrow.

Thanks for looking, I appreciate it. :bighug::):cat::kiss: Time for some BW.
Click to expand...
Any time at all, my friend.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top