Glucose won’t regulate

[Boodolly]

hello my boy Tybalt has been diagnosed for 18 months and until recently has been ace on 2.5 units twice a day. But on Friday morning I found him collapsed in a hypoglycaemic coma. He’s been in the emergencyf vets since, costing the earth. He was treated with antibiotics for a UTI on Thursday afternoon. He was doing great at the vets, responded to glucose, started eating and this morning glucose was at 24.7, so he was fed and given 1 unit of insulin. By 2 o’clock his glucose was at 2, coming down very dramatically between 10 and 12 o’clock from 17 to 7, and they had to intervene with glucose again as he didn’t want the food they were offering. So another night monitoring him in the vets. I have asked them to feed him raw food, or at least high protein, low carb, I’d expect them to know this. They’re feeding him chicken and rice pate, not low carb. They’re argument that he’s not eating at all so what’s the point in trying raw food, or tuna! I’m frustrated and upset, they said yesterday he was recovering well and eating, now apparently he’s not eaten at all and won’t even attempt food. Glucose being done every hour, they will decide whether to feed and inject half a unit tonight.

My frustrations are that no one seems to know what to do for the best and it’s costing a fortune. The vet tried to tell me he should be on an MD diabetic diet, I said no he should be on raw food, or at least 70% protein canned food, but she wasn’t going to do it and I’m paying all this money and he’s no better than when he had glucose to bring him out of the coma. He’s back at square one.

Why is his glucose dropping so dramatically, he can’t seem to level out at all, I asked the vet, their answer I don’t know, I just can’t accept that as an answer, there is a reason? Any suggestions, help, advice please. I am at my wits end, anxious and utterly heartbroken because he’s been through enough and my heart and sadly purse cannot take much more.

Thank you

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Hi, welcome to the forum!
My cat had hypo and we too ended up in the ER for 24H.
My heart goes out to you both , what an awful event that is! But the most important - he IS alive! Hypo kills in hours, really bad way to go for a cat or a human being. Good news - there are many cats on this Board who survived Hypo and some of them went in to remission shortly after Hypo. I do not know the mechanics behind the phenomena but it has something to do with "jump starting" their pancreas. Let's hope it'll be your boy;s silver lining. If that is the case with Tybalt than it can explain him crashing on 1U dose.

I do understand your frustration over the glucose level and vets not being able to dose properly - but it takes time to find the optimal dose and been on the glucose drip complicates things a little. It seems to me that they are doing every thing right at the ER.

I am not going to pretend to be an expert but here is my $0.02 ,FWIW:

Why is his glucose dropping so dramatically, he can’t seem to level out at all, I asked the vet, their answer I don’t know, I just can’t accept that as an answer, there is a reason?

2.5U + 0%/ low carbs/ raw food = drops. Do you home test?
I hope you do and have a record of it - it can answer a lot of questions about dosing...
As odd as it sounds some cats handle their insulin curves better if they are fed higher carbs % (still below 10% most cases) - better than that wonderful home made raw food. An example of such food is Friskies Pates. Perhaps you can take him home and experiment with that kind of food for a while and see how that'll go?

The vet tried to tell me he should be on an MD diabetic diet, I said no he should be on raw food

I would refuse MD food as well. Yes, the raw food is the best for them - but as I said earlier your boy might need some higher Low Carbs food - give it a few weeks to try and record his BG tests - if levels than you are on the right track.
What kind insulin is he on?

A tip: you can bump your post up the forum list by replying to yourself - question at the top of the forum get most attention.

 

[JanetNJ]

Two months ago my cat had a hypo and for 2 weeks after was VERY reactive to insulin. Two days after her hypo I gave her less than half her normal dose and she hypoed again. I had to just skip the insulin for a couple of weeks, then start with a very low dose.

If you aren't already doing it, I recommend start testing at home to keep your cat safe. You can see how we use the spreadsheet in our signatures to track and help each other.

 

[Boodolly]

hello my boy Tybalt has been diagnosed for 18 months and until recently has been ace on 2.5 units twice a day. But on Friday morning I found him collapsed in a hypoglycaemic coma. He’s been in the emergencyf vets since, costing the earth. He was treated with antibiotics for a UTI on Thursday afternoon. He was doing great at the vets, responded to glucose, started eating and this morning glucose was at 24.7, so he was fed and given 1 unit of insulin. By 2 o’clock his glucose was at 2, coming down very dramatically between 10 and 12 o’clock from 17 to 7, and they had to intervene with glucose again as he didn’t want the food they were offering. So another night monitoring him in the vets. I have asked them to feed him raw food, or at least high protein, low carb, I’d expect them to know this. They’re feeding him chicken and rice pate, not low carb. They’re argument that he’s not eating at all so what’s the point in trying raw food, or tuna! I’m frustrated and upset, they said yesterday he was recovering well and eating, now apparently he’s not eaten at all and won’t even attempt food. Glucose being done every hour, they will decide whether to feed and inject half a unit tonight.

My frustrations are that no one seems to know what to do for the best and it’s costing a fortune. The vet tried to tell me he should be on an MD diabetic diet, I said no he should be on raw food, or at least 70% protein canned food, but she wasn’t going to do it and I’m paying all this money and he’s no better than when he had glucose to bring him out of the coma. He’s back at square one.

Why is his glucose dropping so dramatically, he can’t seem to level out at all, I asked the vet, their answer I don’t know, I just can’t accept that as an answer, there is a reason? Any suggestions, help, advice please. I am at my wits end, anxious and utterly heartbroken because he’s been through enough and my heart and sadly purse cannot take much more.

Thank you

Two months ago my cat had a hypo and for 2 weeks after was VERY reactive to insulin. Two days after her hypo I gave her less than half her normal dose and she hypoed again. I had to just skip the insulin for a couple of weeks, then start with a very low dose.

If you aren't already doing it, I recommend start testing at home to keep your cat safe. You can see how we use the spreadsheet in our signatures to track and help each other.

 

[Boodolly]

Hi, welcome to the forum!
My cat had hypo and we too ended up in the ER for 24H.
My heart goes out to you both , what an awful event that is! But the most important - he IS alive! Hypo kills in hours, really bad way to go for a cat or a human being. Good news - there are many cats on this Board who survived Hypo and some of them went in to remission shortly after Hypo. I do not know the mechanics behind the phenomena but it has something to do with "jump starting" their pancreas. Let's hope it'll be your boy;s silver lining. If that is the case with Tybalt than it can explain him crashing on 1U dose.

I do understand your frustration over the glucose level and vets not being able to dose properly - but it takes time to find the optimal dose and been on the glucose drip complicates things a little. It seems to me that they are doing every thing right at the ER.

I am not going to pretend to be an expert but here is my $0.02 ,FWIW:

2.5U + 0%/ low carbs/ raw food = drops. Do you home test?
I hope you do and have a record of it - it can answer a lot of questions about dosing...
As odd as it sounds some cats handle their insulin curves better if they are fed higher carbs % (still below 10% most cases) - better than that wonderful home made raw food. An example of such food is Friskies Pates. Perhaps you can take him home and experiment with that kind of food for a while and see how that'll go?

I would refuse MD food as well. Yes, the raw food is the best for them - but as I said earlier your boy might need some higher Low Carbs food - give it a few weeks to try and record his BG tests - if levels than you are on the right track.
What kind insulin is he on?

A tip: you can bump your post up the forum list by replying to yourself - question at the top of the forum get most attention.

Thank you for your replies and kind words, you’ve made me feel far less alone and for that I’m truly grateful.

Tybs has had a fructosamine blood test which will give us a three week look at his BG. We home tested when he was first diagnosed, but it was traumatic and we stopped, I now know that was the wrong thing to do and as soon as he’s home I will home test and record it.

We can’t get hold of Friskies, I’ve searched for it with no success. But I’m sure I can find like for like.

He’s on caninsulin.

 

[Boodolly]

Two months ago my cat had a hypo and for 2 weeks after was VERY reactive to insulin. Two days after her hypo I gave her less than half her normal dose and she hypoed again. I had to just skip the insulin for a couple of weeks, then start with a very low dose.

If you aren't already doing it, I recommend start testing at home to keep your cat safe. You can see how we use the spreadsheet in our signatures to track and help each other.

Thank you for the tips, especially the home testing of his BG. It’s interesting to hear that your cat was very reactive to insulin. I shall keep that in mind. I’m concerned too because I don’t want to come home from work and find him collapsed again. It was an awful experience.

Thank you for taking the time to reply to me

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

We can’t get hold of Friskies, I’ve searched for it with no success. But I’m sure I can find like for like.

He’s on caninsulin.

I gather you are not in the Us, nor in Canada, are you?
We have members all over the world and if you post country I'll try to think who can help you with the local supplies market - to save on meter, strips and hopefully re: the food.

 

[Boodolly]

I gather you are not in the Us, nor in Canada, are you?
We have members all over the world and if you post country I'll try to think who can help you with the local supplies market - to save on meter, strips and hopefully re: the food.

We’re in the UK. Thank you for your help.

Just spoken to the vet, he’s bright, eaten and glucose is at 6.7, without insulin. Fingers crossed he has a good night and I can bring him home tomorrow.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

We’re in the UK. Thank you for your help.

Here is the food list for UK:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml
but it might be out dated. Aim at anything below 10% carbs per 100 Kcal and as low Phosphorous content as you can get (the ideal is below 200/ 100Kcal).
I cannot recall the names of all UK members except @Elizabeth and Bertie (easy to remember names )
but I hope that she can fetch others. There are many experienced UK-ers here.

glucose is at 6.7, without insulin.

in the US it is 120 - good, really good number expecially without insulin!
Fingers crossed...

Keep us posted and ask any question - no thing is too small here.

 

[Boodolly]

Here is the food list for UK:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml
but it might be out dated. Aim at anything below 10% carbs per 100 Kcal and as low Phosphorous content as you can get (the ideal is below 200/ 100Kcal).
I cannot recall the names of all UK members except @Elizabeth and Bertie (easy to remember names )
but I hope that she can fetch others. There are many experienced UK-ers here.



in the US it is 120 - good, really good number expecially without insulin!
Fingers crossed...

Keep us posted and ask any question - no thing is too small here.

Yes your measurement is in mg/dL and our vet does it in mmol/L, it converts to the same. That food list is a gift, thank you. I’ve never heard of some of those foods, it gives me much more to go on and ultimately hope.

What is the reason for low phosphorus?

Any input from anyone is superb, it’s the understanding, support and guidance I needed. If there are any UKers that know about our markets and can advise on what is available and possible over here then that’s jackpot, but you have made me feel much less anxious and far more positive about Tybalt and facing his diabetes.

Exceptionally grateful and tearful with relief, thank you

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

That food list is a gift, thank you. I’ve never heard of some of those foods, it gives me much more to go on and ultimately hope.

you are welcome! There will be more info on food once the UK members are online.

What is the reason for low phosphorus?

P excess is tough on kidneys - the most vulnerable organ in cats, let alone diabetics. And, sadly, most commercial , affordable wet cat food id P high.
The lower P you feed - the easier it is on the kidney. Nothing more than a precaution - a lot of members from the US feed higher P(the economy) and they cats are ok year after year, unless your kitty is already having kidney problems - focus on the carbs content instead of P.

Exceptionally grateful and tearful with relief, thank you

All of us being there, done that. Hang on! I promise that managing diabetes will get easier with time. Truly!

In a meantime, while you are waiting for someone from the UK to respond re: food & supplies- have a look at the Sticky Notes at the top f the Health (main) forum - ton's of good info! The Hypo instructions is especially helpful.

And post with anything you are concerned with - we are here to help because we were where you at right now at some point in the past, worked it out, gained practical experience and are willing to share.
You are so totally not alone!
Have you it seen at the Forum page - we are 17 thousand members strong. Everyone was in your shoes at some point.
You are in the best place you don't want to be.

 

[Willow71]

I don’t have any advise to give but definitely relate to your situation of having issues getting your kittys BGs under control. Our Willow has had three emergency vet admissions just recently and has a reasonably new diabetes diagnosis Dec2017 . Sending kitty hugs to you and your fur baby.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Hi @Boodolly, I'm also in UK (waving from Surrey!)

So sorry to hear about the hypo. ((((hugs))))
My cat also became very sensitive to insulin after hypo, (went from .75 of a unit to 0.1 of a unit...) ...Not all cats become really sensitive to insulin, but it's as well to be aware of the possibility....

The UK food list was updated last spring (2017) and will be updated again shortly (new foods come onto the market all the time...)

How is Tybalt doing now?
And how are you doing?

Eliz