2.20 Rufus AMPS 96, +1 132, + 2 109, + 3.75 75, + 5 120, + 7 154, PMPS 361, + 3 453

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Sean & Rufus

Sean & Rufus

Member Since 2018
So I am very confused with the bouncing and the new lower AM numbers. I'm guessing that his dose is too high, seeing as his numbers actually climb after a dose.

Any suggestions for dosing today? Half? I will not be home for about 3 hours later today.

@Stacy & Asia any advice? First green for Rufus
 
That green is awesome - this is what you're working for!

He is breaking his bounces faster, which is a great thing - you are seeing progress. At this point, I don't think his dose is too high - he's just bouncing and adjusting to insulin and to the dental work. However, you definitely want to keep close tabs on his numbers - with the dental done and him starting to recover from it, it is possible he could go down the dosing scale quickly. But, you don't want to take reductions before they are earned - that could set you back from all this great forward movement.

When do you have to go out today - is it late in the cycle, or early? If it's later in the cycle, and again as long as you have HC and test strips and can monitor closely until then, I would strongly consider shooting the full dose.

With that said, I do have to go out for several hours myself in a short while, so I won't be able to check in again until probably around 1 or 2 EST.
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
That green is awesome - this is what you're working for!

He is breaking his bounces faster, which is a great thing - you are seeing progress. At this point, I don't think his dose is too high - he's just bouncing and adjusting to insulin and to the dental work. However, you definitely want to keep close tabs on his numbers - with the dental done and him starting to recover from it, it is possible he could go down the dosing scale quickly. But, you don't want to take reductions before they are earned - that could set you back from all this great forward movement.

When do you have to go out today - is it late in the cycle, or early? If it's later in the cycle, and again as long as you have HC and test strips and can monitor closely until then, I would strongly consider shooting the full dose.

With that said, I do have to go out for several hours myself in a short while, so I won't be able to check in again until probably around 1 or 2 EST.
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I'll be leaving here in about 2 hours, so I can take a test in an hour and then before I leave. Should I just give full dose?
 
Hmmmmm.......I admit, it is a bit of a tough call since you'll be leaving fairly early in the cycle. I really hate the thought of Rufus losing this gorgeous momentum, though. You'll be gone for 3 hours - do you think it would be more or less than that?
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
Hmmmmm.......I admit, it is a bit of a tough call since you'll be leaving fairly early in the cycle. I really hate the thought of Rufus losing this gorgeous momentum, though. You'll be gone for 3 hours - do you think it would be more or less than that?
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I could probably be back in 2 hours. I don't want to lose momentum either. I think I'll just give full dose and if numbers go down, I'll just not leave I guess.
 
Wow, Rufus is making some great progress! :woot: I agree with Amy, depending on what time you need to be out of the house, I would shoot the full dose and monitor closely. This is exactly what you want to see. It also might be helpful to either put a row demarcating when he had his dental, or at least add it to the comments. I'm sure it's making such a difference for him.
 
Since this is your first green and the lowest number you've shot, get a +1 to start seeing what's what. I have to leave in about 1.5 hours myself, and still have to shower and get ready to go, but I'll check back before I head out, and I've asked others to try and check in, too.

If his numbers do start going down (too much), you can abort the cycle by loading him up with high carb food. Mind you, this is something you'd only do under circumstances like this, with you having to leave for a while, because of course under normal circumstances this would be counterproductive. But with you leaving for 2-3 hours a good meal of high carb food should carry him through should it be necessary.

But, let's see where the numbers are.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Wow, Rufus is making some great progress! :woot: I agree with Amy, depending on what time you need to be out of the house, I would shoot the full dose and monitor closely. This is exactly what you want to see. It also might be helpful to either put a row demarcating when he had his dental, or at least add it to the comments. I'm sure it's making such a difference for him.
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I think so too. I also think if would have had dental done back in August we wouldn't be here. But so is life. I have the dental in there, it was on the 14th. Crossing fingers!
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
Since this is your first green and the lowest number you've shot, get a +1 to start seeing what's what. I have to leave in about 1.5 hours myself, and still have to shower and get ready to go, but I'll check back before I head out, and I've asked others to try and check in, too.

If his numbers do start going down (too much), you can abort the cycle by loading him up with high carb food. Mind you, this is something you'd only do under circumstances like this, with you having to leave for a while, because of course under normal circumstances this would be counterproductive. But with you leaving for 2-3 hours a good meal of high carb food should carry him through should it be necessary.

But, let's see where the numbers are.
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Sounds good. Thanks for your help, so much appreciated :)
 
This is remarkable how well he is responding after the dental ! As Amy said, he could go quickly down the dosing ladder which is a great thing. :cat: Glad you can monitor today. Usually when you shoot a green number the cycle is flat. But since this is his first green he is likely to bounce. But with cats, we can't assume anything.......

Oh and this is for you, the Coveted Balls of Steel which is presented after shooting your first green.

upload_2018-2-20_9-41-22.png
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
This is remarkable how well he is responding after the dental ! As Amy said, he could go quickly down the dosing ladder which is a great thing. :cat: Glad you can monitor today. Usually when you shoot a green number the cycle is flat. But since this is his first green he is likely to bounce. But with cats, we can't assume anything.......

Oh and this is for you, the Coveted Balls of Steel which is presented after shooting your first green.

View attachment 34353
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Hahahaha! Yeah, I debated for sure and was scared! I figure he'll bounce, so we'll see. Don't want lose the good numbers we're seeing!
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
I would give him some low carb food and test again within an hour. Has he had ondansetron today?
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I just gave him some fancy feast, and he's actually eating it! I did give him an ondan about 5 hours ago. I might have to up it. I'm think this up and down bg is a big part of the nausea.
 
Yes, the fluctuations might be bothering him a bit.

Great with the Fancy Feast! You might after intervene with something higher carb soon, but if we can keep him surfing without high carb, that's ideal. If he falls below 68 on your AlphaTrak, though, that's when you'll want to give him some higher carb stuff.
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
Yes, the fluctuations might be bothering him a bit.

Great with the Fancy Feast! You might after intervene with something higher carb soon, but if we can keep him surfing without high carb, that's ideal. If he falls below 68 on your AlphaTrak, though, that's when you'll want to give him some higher carb stuff.
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Oh OK. I was pretty worried that hypo starts at 68, and not sure how long he would have to get back up. So there is a little leeway per se, and ecid?
 
Actually...is he still eating any dry? I can't remember the details....just trying to remember if you are doing TR or SLGS.
 
68 is the bottom edge of what we consider safe (as well as being the bottom of the normal range); below that, ECID but we don't like to find out. If you're doing TR and he falls below 68, you would reduce the dose. I have to admit, right now I'm not remembering the reduction number for SLGS on your meter, but will do some digging.
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
Actually...is he still eating any dry? I can't remember the details....just trying to remember if you are doing TR or SLGS.
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He's not supposed to be eating any dry, per the vet, but I don't always remember to pick up the bowl after Ozzie eats. I don't think he's had much if any at all since last Wednesday.
 
There are the two stickies at the top of the forum that outline both methods...check them out and of course we can answer specific questions for you. The slight monkey wrench is that the two are both built around a human meter rather than the Alpha Trak, but folks here do work around that issue.

If you keep the dry out of the picture, you certainly test in the "TR manner" of testing.
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
There are the two stickies at the top of the forum that outline both methods...check them out and of course we can answer specific questions for you. The slight monkey wrench is that the two are both built around a human meter rather than the Alpha Trak, but folks here do work around that issue.

If you keep the dry out of the picture, you certainly test in the "TR manner" of testing.
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I've read the stickies, but don't get what to do after you do the curve. If Rufus is in "normal" range, and we stick with that dose, what do we do then? How often would we test besides amps & pmps?

I have about 80 strips left for the Alpha Trak, and then will be switching to a human meter. Vet doesn't want me to, but too bad. Unless she wants to pay for the strips :)

And dry will always be around. Hoping for young again, but might be Dr Elseys.
 
Ok, so with dry always being around, you are SLGS. If you put that in your signature, it will help those who are helping you.

Yes, if he's in the normal range, carry on with the current dose.

With both methods we always recommend at least four tests per day: AMPS, PMPS, and at least one test in both the morning and evening cycle, with numbers dictating how often you test (like on days like today, where you NEED to test more than that because his numbers are lower). Testing is for determining how well a dose is working, but almost more than that, it is for safety. No matter which method you follow, you want to be sure the numbers are always, always safe.

And, I was just informed that the reduction number on the AT for SLGS is actually 90, not 68. So, since Rufus hit 75 today while you are still using the AT, he has earned a reduction! Starting this evening, his new dose would be 5.75U.

At this point, you can either keep him surfing safely in his current numbers, or if you want to boost him up a tad, you can give him some high carb food. Even though you are doing SLGS, he is safe as long as he's over 68.
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
Ok, so with dry always being around, you are SLGS. If you put that in your signature, it will help those who are helping you.

Yes, if he's in the normal range, carry on with the current dose.

With both methods we always recommend at least four tests per day: AMPS, PMPS, and at least one test in both the morning and evening cycle, with numbers dictating how often you test (like on days like today, where you NEED to test more than that because his numbers are lower). Testing is for determining how well a dose is working, but almost more than that, it is for safety. No matter which method you follow, you want to be sure the numbers are always, always safe.

And, I was just informed that the reduction number on the AT for SLGS is actually 90, not 68. So, since Rufus hit 75 today while you are still using the AT, he has earned a reduction! Starting this evening, his new dose would be 5.75U.

At this point, you can either keep him surfing safely in his current numbers, or if you want to boost him up a tad, you can give him some high carb food. Even though you are doing SLGS, he is safe as long as he's over 68.
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Thanks for the info! Do you think 5.5 would be ok? That's hard enough to do, I don't know how I could do .25!
 
Reducing by .25U really is ideal, so I would try those half-unit syringes again. If you reduce too quickly, you could end up undoing all the good work that you've done the last few weeks. None of us love those "between the line" doses, but you do get used to doing them.
 
I guess my concern is I still don't know where his nadir is. So far it's looking like early AM. I'm going to have to continue multiple tests per day to finf out when the nadir is right? Also, if that 75 to 120 was food alone, if I free feed his numbers could be jumbled all the time depending on when he ate.
 
It's possible that's a a food spike, or it could be the start of a bounce. Only time and tests will tell for sure. If it's food, he'll likely either surf with a slight rise into PMPS, or he may possibly go back down a bit once the food wears off. If it's the start of a bounce, well, you know what will happen.

Nadirs can be a moving target, so even if you figure his out, don't get too attached to it. You can get a general idea of when he'll nadir, but it could change at any given time...just because.

Free feeding can make it challenging to see what's going on. We usually feed several small meals at the front end of a cycle, and definitely nothing withing 2 hours before pre-shot test time so you now the preshot number is not food-influenced (you want an accurate read before shooting).
 
Nice cycle today Sean!

Sean & Rufus said:
that 75 to 120 was food alone
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Did you feed some food or higher carb food around then? It could very well be a food bump. Bubba used to always get about a 50 point hike with canned food before we started feeding raw.

Free feeding does make it harder to find the nadir and to know what numbers have been food induced. If you could get him on a scheduled time to feed it would be more ideal. I put my numbers and feedings together in a cell so I know what's doing what. You might what to add the carb % in the cell so that you know how he responds to higher carb food when you are trying to boost him up. It will help you the next time.

Congrats on the reduction to 5.75. Here is a pictorial guide to show you what it looks like. Practice with a used syringe and water. You've got young eyes so I know you'll be able to do it!

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Just going to throw this out there: isn't 5U about when one starts moving in 0.5U increments for high-dose conditions? Where I'm going is that a reduction of 0.5U, at least this one time, might not be a bad idea. If it's too big a reduction, Rufus will just go back up, but since he's just had a pretty dramatic change in numbers with a possible cause (dental), I'm thinking it might be appropriate to do a slightly more dramatic move for this reduction.

Of course, even by the above arguments, after this change you'll have to move in 0.25U increments, so probably you'll have to move to the other syringes. You can sort of figure out 0.25 with full-unit markings, but it is harder.
 
Nan & Amber said:
Just going to throw this out there: isn't 5U about when one starts moving in 0.5U increments for high-dose conditions? Where I'm going is that a reduction of 0.5U, at least this one time, might not be a bad idea. If it's too big a reduction, Rufus will just go back up, but since he's just had a pretty dramatic change in numbers with a possible cause (dental), I'm thinking it might be appropriate to do a slightly more dramatic move for this reduction.
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Since Rufus is just starting to see an improvement in numbers and bouncing, I would hate to see him lose that momentum by possibly taking too much of a reduction/reducing too quickly. Of course Sean holds the syringe, so ultimately, the decision is his.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Nice cycle today Sean!


Did you feed some food or higher carb food around then?
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It was fancy feast tender beef and liver, only 2% carbs. I did add his cosequin and immune suppoert additive to it. He's up to 154 now, so I'm guessing a slight bounce? He's been pretty sleepy all day, think he needs to get used better numbers :)
 
I'm guessing it's the start of a bounce....hopefully he won't take it to the stratosphere. And hopefully he is getting used to these better numbers!

Do you know if the cosequin and immune support have any sugar products in them? That's one thing to consider...lots (but not all) of these supplements and meds have some form of sugar in them.
 
I never noticed a bump from Cosequin, it should be OK.

Congrats on those lovely greens today - the first part of today is an ideal cycle. Although scary the first few times, pretty soon you'll crave these nice numbers. What might help you the next time you see greens, is to keep track of any foods outside of the regular meals that you feed. Knowing what food you fed, when, and how much, can be an invaluable tool next time you might need to steer his numbers. I used to track extra foods in the Remarks section.

With you using the AT and getting down to 75, that would be a reduction earned when following SLGS. Because he is on his 6th day after a dental, and is over 5 units dose, I might go with the 0.5 unit decrease. 5.5 units didn't do anything for him before, but maybe the dental is making a big difference and I like to be cautious with larger doses and hence larger depots.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I never noticed a bump from Cosequin, it should be OK.

Congrats on those lovely greens today - the first part of today is an ideal cycle. Although scary the first few times, pretty soon you'll crave these nice numbers. What might help you the next time you see greens, is to keep track of any foods outside of the regular meals that you feed. Knowing what food you fed, when, and how much, can be an invaluable tool next time you might need to steer his numbers. I used to track extra foods in the Remarks section.

With you using the AT and getting down to 75, that would be a reduction earned when following SLGS. Because he is on his 6th day after a dental, and is over 5 units dose, I might go with the 0.5 unit decrease. 5.5 units didn't do anything for him before, but maybe the dental is making a big difference and I like to be cautious with larger doses and hence larger depots.
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Thanks. Another thing to consider (possibly), is he is off his pain meds since Sunday night. He's tried eating dry kibble a couple times (he wasn't supposed to be), and I noticed that he was still eating the same way he was before dental i.e. weird tongue sticking out, manipulating the food, dropping food, head bouncing. The dental tech vet just called and asked how he was doing. I told her about these things and that I was kind of worried, but thought maybe he's still inflamed. She said it was actually ok for him to be eating dry food and he should not be exhibiting those signs. He had 2 teeth that were questionable, but they left them in. Kind of wish they would have just pulled them since they were already "in" there. Check up is not until next Wed, but she said to put down the kibble and watch him eat. If it continues, she might want to see us this week. So long story short, hahaha, he might be in pain somewhat still, and that could further complicate things.
 
Stooopid tech - dry food is NOT good for diabetics. And wet food will probably be easier to eat.
 
Glad that Wendy weighed in and agrees that the 0.5 reduction is the way to go.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier is be careful with Deli meats as often they add sugar to them.
 
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