Best food for cat with mild pancreatitis? She's on Fancy Feast Classic, Vet pushing Hills i/d

[Martha and Lolly (GA)]

Hi,

The good news is this month, Lolly is 3 years OTJ this month thanks to all the help FDMB gave me, walking me through Tight Regulation with Lantus. For past year, I've been testing monthly, sometimes more, she's been in the 50's consistently. All my cats have been eating Fancy Feast Classic since Lolly's dx.

Now Lolly is showing signs of pancreatitis. Vet said it's not high, they are sending me labs via email by Monday. My vet really wants me to switch to Hill's i/d. I know she just went to a cat nutrition conference hosted by HIlls, she was very upfront about that. She says she was very impressed with the quality and batch testing they do. She's been Lolly's vet for a while, and otherwise I think she is an excellent vet. I told her the different values from Dr. Lisa's chart, that Dr Lisa is a vet, but she still wants me to do the i/d.

She says Lolly needs lower fat content. I've looked at Dr. Lisa's chart and here is what she lists for FF and i/d:

FF Classic: (in percentages)
Protein 38 ; Fat 55-60; Carb: 2-3 Phosphorus 380 mg/kcal Calories per 5.5 can ~90

Hill i/d :
Protein 30 Fat 47 Carb 23 Phosphorous 203 Calories per 5.5oz 161

Fat content doesn't seem much lower, but the Carb is much higher. Phosphorus and calories are the big differences.

Any reason I should switch her to Hills i/d? Could it send Lolly out of remission?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Sharon14]

The I/d is way too high in carbs. Change your title to include feeding a cat with pancreatitis. There are several people here that have kitties with that condition as well as diabetes. I’ll tag one @Carol & Murphy maybe she can suggest some low carb, low fat foods.

 

[Martha and Lolly (GA)]

The I/d is way too high in carbs. Change your title to include feeding a cat with pancreatitis. There are several people here that have kitties with that condition as well as diabetes. I’ll tag one @Carol & Murphy maybe she can suggest some low carb, low fat foods.

Thanks Sharon. I't's what I suspected. I don't understand why Vets don't get it. I hate to believe that she s just shilling for Hills, she has been amazing. She calls and texts me with followups, takes my texts when I have a question. Lolly was in yesterday for a check up and blood tests; she called me today to ask how Lolly was doing. When I get the labs, is there a way to attach the labs to her Signature, or do I just upload a file into a message?

 

[Sharon14]

There is a tab on your SS for labs, but I’m not sure how to use it (I am technologically challenged ). I’m sure Hills is very convincing in their nutrition talks. My vet promotes their food too. He and I have agreed to disagree on this one thing!

 

[Squalliesmom]

Do you mean the dry or the canned i/d? Neither one looks very good to me. Both are way too high in carbs. This is the list of the first 9 ingredients in the canned i/d:

Water*, Pork Liver, Chicken, Rice, Potato Protein, Chicken Fat, Chicken Liver Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Dried Beet Pulp*, Guar Gum,

vs the first 9 ingredients in Fancy Feast Classic Chicken (just as a comparison, because it is so widely used):

Chicken, Chicken Broth, Liver, Meat By-Products, Fish, Poultry By-Products, Artificial and Natural Flavors, Guar Gum.

*Nice to have the extra hydration, but not as the first ingredient!
*Why would anybody feed these to a cat?

I will never understand vets' attitudes towards the so-called "prescription" foods (there is absolutely nothing in them that would require any kind of prescription). I attribute it to a lack of training regarding the nutritional needs of cats because, otherwise, I would lose all respect for them altogether!

 

[Martha and Lolly (GA)]

I'm convinced. I tried uploading her labs, thought I did everything right, but now my whole signature is blank. So I'm starting a new thread where I'm uploading her labs as a file for now.

 

[Martha and Lolly (GA)]

ok, so now it looks like the labs link is working.

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Hi Martha - My Murphy has had multiple bouts of pancreatitis - it seems like fat content is not important for cats as opposed to dogs in setting of pancreatitis. What are Lolly's symptoms? Lack of appetite? Murphy develops food aversions very easily (when he gets ill, he associates the food he is eating at the time with what made him sick, so he won't' eat that food any more). So when he has flares, I try to feed him different foods. I don't have any special "pancreatitis' foods - just low carb. Since they really lose their appetite during flares, but they must eat, sometimes I find a little low carb kibble - I use Wysong's Epigen90 - is either the only thing he will eat, or a bit of it will jump start his appy. the key is small amounts of food but feed frequently - that places less stress on the pancreas.
Cerenia has been a god send for controlling his pancreatitis, but during a flare he really needs ondansetron (for nausea) and an appy stimulant (I use cyproheptadine) pain control and SQ as well, depending on the severity.
Here are some good links on pancreatitis
I agree with others - no need for prescription diets

 

[Martha and Lolly (GA)]

Thank you Carol.

Something new has been added to the equation. I brought Lolly to the Vet because she was vomiting bile and not eating. The blood test showed she had
Spec fPL d 12.3 0.0 - 3.5 ug/L H which is high and indicates pancreatitis. She was given a long term anti-nausea shot, and antibiotic shot, and I was told to give her famotidine (pepcid ac). After that, she was fine, chowing down, no vomiting, back to normal self, no lethargy.

But I have 4 other cats, and one by one they all got sick. One had started vomiting a little before Lolly went to the Vet; by the time she was home, they all stopped eating, and vomiting clear bile. One of them, Zoe, has recovered on her own and is eating and no longer vomiting. Neko is not eating, tried to eat this morning, vomited after eating, hasnt eaten since or vomited. He's perked up though. Tiggy is not eating, I've only seen her vomit once, and she's hiding and is lethargic. The worst is Ninja, who hasn't budged from the bottom of the bed, I did see him drinking yesterday though.

Neko, Tiggy and Ninja are going to the vet tomorrow, they couldn't take them today. So while Lolly does have elevated fPL, I'm beginning to think she had a stomach virus, and all the others have gotten it. They are my only furbabies, and none go outside. She couldn't have picked it up at the vet, since she was sick before. I can't for the life of me figure out how they got this.

Since Ninja is perking up I am tempted to let him recover on his own- three cats at the vet at one time is a real hardship. But he hasn't eaten for three days, so unless he eats on his own tomorrow morning, he'll be going.

Of course when my vet called me this morning, she really pushed the Hills i/d which they claim is for vomiting, digestive support, pancreatitis. I have a hard time standing up to her, but they are not getting i/d. What are some of the low carb foods you feed to Murphy? Anything good for nausea etc.?

 

[tiffmaxee]

Max had chronic pancreatitis for at least 7 years. ECID but Food did not seem to be his cause. He didn’t have IBD though. Other than not feeding a food super high in fat, most feed the normal diet. My internist never suggested a food change.

 

[tiffmaxee]

For nausea I gave Max ondansetron. It’s a human drug somyoun need an RX. I also used cerenia which you can get from your vet. The only sign I got that he wasn’t feeling well was inappetence. I learned that was due to nausea. Some cats need buprenorphine for pain. Max got it sometimes but usually just treating the nausea worked for him.

 

[CassWTribby]

be careful with the guar gum and other gums and carageen additives to canned food

these can be a trigger and are in most common canned cat foods
Try a food without for several days to a week. Then feed one with the additives and watch for a response.

I also found CBD oil very effective for reducing inflammation and pain relief.

 

[Martha and Lolly (GA)]

Do you mean the dry or the canned i/d? Neither one looks very good to me. Both are way too high in carbs. This is the list of the first 9 ingredients in the canned i/d:

Water*, Pork Liver, Chicken, Rice, Potato Protein, Chicken Fat, Chicken Liver Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Dried Beet Pulp*, Guar Gum,

vs the first 9 ingredients in Fancy Feast Classic Chicken (just as a comparison, because it is so widely used):

Chicken, Chicken Broth, Liver, Meat By-Products, Fish, Poultry By-Products, Artificial and Natural Flavors, Guar Gum.

*Nice to have the extra hydration, but not as the first ingredient!
*Why would anybody feed these to a cat?

I will never understand vets' attitudes towards the so-called "prescription" foods (there is absolutely nothing in them that would require any kind of prescription). I attribute it to a lack of training regarding the nutritional needs of cats because, otherwise, I would lose all respect for them altogether!

Max had chronic pancreatitis for at least 7 years. ECID but Food did not seem to be his cause. He didn’t have IBD though. Other than not feeding a food super high in fat, most feed the normal diet. My internist never suggested a food change.

Max had chronic pancreatitis for at least 7 years. ECID but Food did not seem to be his cause. He didn’t have IBD though. Other than not feeding a food super high in fat, most feed the normal diet. My internist never suggested a food change.

be careful with the guar gum and other gums and carageen additives to canned food

these can be a trigger and are in most common canned cat foods
Try a food without for several days to a week. Then feed one with the additives and watch for a response.

I also found CBD oil very effective for reducing inflammation and pain relief.

@tiffmaxee guar gum seems to be in everything. Dr Lisa charts don’t list it. Do you know any foods that don’t have it? Al

be careful with the guar gum and other gums and carageen additives to canned food

these can be a trigger and are in most common canned cat foods
Try a food without for several days to a week. Then feed one with the additives and watch for a response.

I also found CBD oil very effective for reducing inflammation and pain relief.

@CassWTribby can you recommend a food with no guar gym etc? They all seem to have it. Also how many drops of CBD oil do you recommend? Thx

 

[CassWTribby]

Unfortunately you just have to go to your local pet store and read labels. Bring a magnifying glass. Go Live cat foods in Canada I found at Pet Valu. Most pet foods have it but the more simple ingredient ones do not Feeding a complete raw diet may also help. I did a combo of raw and simple ingredient canned food although your not supposed to really.

I used Restorative Botanicals 4paws pet blend cbd oil. It recommends 2-3 drops as needed daily on your finger then wipe directly on your cats gum. Once my cat was in daily cbd oil she was able to eat some foods with additives as I think the inflammation was under control. Too much and she woukd have a flare. Tylosin an antibiotic. for IBD was very effective.

 

[Olive & Paula]

Here a thought to get vet off your back about the food. It's what I do (although mine don't push rx food) Say you'll try it. Get just one can (don't even have to open it) and in a few days tell them kitty won't eat it or they throw it up.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Chewy.com lists all the ingredients in food. Susan Thoxton, truthaboutfood.com
has a list of foods. Hers is small and mostly raw but worth looking at. Max didn’t react to the food. His pancreatitis was stress induced. I switched my kittens to raw because one had loose stool and it stopped immediately. I’m feeding Balanced Blends and Primal now. Another way to go is Easy Complete and cook your own protein. Try gently baking chicken and see if she will eat it.

 

[Martha and Lolly (GA)]

Here a thought to get vet off your back about the food. It's what I do (although mine don't push rx food) Say you'll try it. Get just one can (don't even have to open it) and in a few days tell them kitty won't eat it or they throw it up.

Haha- good idea!

 

[Martha and Lolly (GA)]

Hi Martha - My Murphy has had multiple bouts of pancreatitis - it seems like fat content is not important for cats as opposed to dogs in setting of pancreatitis. What are Lolly's symptoms? Lack of appetite? Murphy develops food aversions very easily (when he gets ill, he associates the food he is eating at the time with what made him sick, so he won't' eat that food any more). So when he has flares, I try to feed him different foods. I don't have any special "pancreatitis' foods - just low carb. Since they really lose their appetite during flares, but they must eat, sometimes I find a little low carb kibble - I use Wysong's Epigen90 - is either the only thing he will eat, or a bit of it will jump start his appy. the key is small amounts of food but feed frequently - that places less stress on the pancreas.
Cerenia has been a god send for controlling his pancreatitis, but during a flare he really needs ondansetron (for nausea) and an appy stimulant (I use cyproheptadine) pain control and SQ as well, depending on the severity.
Here are some good links on pancreatitis
I agree with others - no need for prescription diets

Thanks Carol. My vet gave her cerenia shot and an appetite shot. Both seemed to help- she is doing better. Thanks for the food tips and the pancreatitis links. There is a lot out there, so having your recommendation means a lot.

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

be careful with the guar gum and other gums and carageen additives to canned food

I agree with all the comments - I avoid food with some of the gums or carrageenan is a definite no no. The brands I use are Instinct, Koha, Nutro, Nulo, Sheba, Nature's Logic, Dr Elsey's, Ziwipeak, Bravo - that's not all of them, but most. I also change the proteins every other day or so (switch turkey, chicken, guinea hen, venison, etc)
Murphy is super picky so he'll eat something for awhile, and then never touch it again.
He is on 4 mg of cerenia every day - I increase to 8 mg during a flare, also ondansetron for nausea is a must for him and for appy stimulation I give cyproheptadine (plus fluids and pain support as needed). I have also found that adding digestive enzymes (with probiotics) to his food at every meal is helpful - I ever heard one vet say it can help prevent pancreatitis (digestive enzymes are not the same as pancreatic enzymes). He is also supposed to be on denamarin for liver and/or pancreas support - but I find that he frequently vomits the pill up so I don't give it regularly.
In fact, right now he is having a little flare of either pancreatitis or IBD, so he's getting increased cerenia, ondansetron, and cyproheptadine. I agree that lack of appetite is frequently the only sign, so at the 1st sign, I give him ondansetron
It's a lot to take in, but pancreatitis is more common than we realize

 

[Martha and Lolly (GA)]

I agree with all the comments - I avoid food with some of the gums or carrageenan is a definite no no. The brands I use are Instinct, Koha, Nutro, Nulo, Sheba, Nature's Logic, Dr Elsey's, Ziwipeak, Bravo - that's not all of them, but most. I also change the proteins every other day or so (switch turkey, chicken, guinea hen, venison, etc)
Murphy is super picky so he'll eat something for awhile, and then never touch it again.
He is on 4 mg of cerenia every day - I increase to 8 mg during a flare, also ondansetron for nausea is a must for him and for appy stimulation I give cyproheptadine (plus fluids and pain support as needed). I have also found that adding digestive enzymes (with probiotics) to his food at every meal is helpful - I ever heard one vet say it can help prevent pancreatitis (digestive enzymes are not the same as pancreatic enzymes). He is also supposed to be on denamarin for liver and/or pancreas support - but I find that he frequently vomits the pill up so I don't give it regularly.
In fact, right now he is having a little flare of either pancreatitis or IBD, so he's getting increased cerenia, ondansetron, and cyproheptadine. I agree that lack of appetite is frequently the only sign, so at the 1st sign, I give him ondansetron
It's a lot to take in, but pancreatitis is more common than we realize

I agree with all the comments - I avoid food with some of the gums or carrageenan is a definite no no. The brands I use are Instinct, Koha, Nutro, Nulo, Sheba, Nature's Logic, Dr Elsey's, Ziwipeak, Bravo - that's not all of them, but most. I also change the proteins every other day or so (switch turkey, chicken, guinea hen, venison, etc)
Murphy is super picky so he'll eat something for awhile, and then never touch it again.
He is on 4 mg of cerenia every day - I increase to 8 mg during a flare, also ondansetron for nausea is a must for him and for appy stimulation I give cyproheptadine (plus fluids and pain support as needed). I have also found that adding digestive enzymes (with probiotics) to his food at every meal is helpful - I ever heard one vet say it can help prevent pancreatitis (digestive enzymes are not the same as pancreatic enzymes). He is also supposed to be on denamarin for liver and/or pancreas support - but I find that he frequently vomits the pill up so I don't give it regularly.
In fact, right now he is having a little flare of either pancreatitis or IBD, so he's getting increased cerenia, ondansetron, and cyproheptadine. I agree that lack of appetite is frequently the only sign, so at the 1st sign, I give him ondansetron
It's a lot to take in, but pancreatitis is more common than we realize

@Carol & Murphy Thank you for the brands and the tip about digestive enzymes. I’ve never heard of them. I hate to hog your time but do you have brands or more info about them? I wouldn’t know how to dose her if I just found them in the store.

I am so sorry to hear of Murphy’s difficulties with pancreatitis. You are an amazing cat mom. (Or is it bean? I forget). For you and Murphy- {{(((Carol and Murphy)))}}

 

[Tracey&Jones (GA)]

guar gym etc

Rawz canned food doesn't list any gums it uses a ground up bean. Low carb. Jones has it for his IBD/pancreatitis. I have had no issues with him using it and it seemed to calm down his IBD.

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Rawz canned food doesn't list any gums it uses a ground up bean

I've never heard of Rawz - I'll have to check it out
I use NaturVet Digestive Enzymes (pic below) that I get from Amazon but I'm sure there are plenty of others. I use this every meal and I do feel it helps