? 2/15, sprocket 228/amps, 142/+3.75, 113/+6. 252/pmps but acting weird.

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Darnell & Sprocket (GA)

Darnell & Sprocket (GA)

Member Since 2015
He has been getting in better numbers lately last week or so in blues n yellows except for am pinks until yesterday. But this is 2nd time this has happened.
1st time was week of thanksgiving. He was doing good until his appetite dropped to almost nothing. He looked ill and wanted to eat like a bird.
What use is good numbers if he feels ill? In november people said it was normal so i waited and he earned 3 reductions.
I called vet when he didnt even want dry food. She said to skip next insulin dose to get appetite better but that just raised his bg back up and then his appetite went back to 13oz a day after that.
I dont want to repeat what happened in november.

He seems bored with food too. If i give something he hasnt had in a long time he will eat it but then goes back to eating like a bird.
I dont understand what is going on??
What do I do?
 
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Sorry having technical difficulites.
I started writing this 2 days ago to explain well..

Sprocket, better #'s but chasing with carbs too much.
Ok. He has done better on 2.75u dose so this time I was gonna not reduce till 3rd reduction earned.

Almost first time I gave carbs. So been avoiding the drop by giving more carb. He was eating between 12-14oz during december n january.

He went to 12oz. And now the past week has gone to mostly @ 11oz. I have his daily total on right column near remarks.


This week he has been in good numbers but I am chasing his with carbs so he wont drop because 1) he seems to mostly surf at night, & i need to sleep. I been very tired lately. Trying not to get sick.

2) he is awake most of daytime so he sleeps so much at night that I have to wake him to test and to eat. He wont even get out of his bed to eat. I have to hold dish for him.

Issue is:

He wont or doesnt seem to want to eat enough at night to keep him balanced with the amount of insulin needed to keep him in these better numbers.

Last time he reduced his food intake in november during the week of thanksgiving he also made himself not feel good. I dont get it.

He gets in better numbers but i cant get him to eat enough to balance the insulin. But if i reduce the insulin the numbers go up.


Should I try to very slowly decrease his dose to balance with the food he wants to eat??

I use a caliper to help to have the same dose even because my syringes have such inconsistent line markings.


I want him in these better numbers but I cant chase him to eat or use too many carbs to keep him from dropping to low.

How do I get him to balance?

I know he wont go in remission but can I at least get him to balance under 300 daily without chasing him with carbs??
 
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Wish I had a magic answer for you Darnell. KT did the same thing of not waking up to eat at night. Even if I woke him up completely, he still just wanted to go back to sleep. I fed higher carb right before bed - didn't resolve it but helped. He still gave me stOOpid lows for AMPS and sailed high all day. Dakota wakes me up to eat about 3am so I don't have that issue with him...

Food - my big boys only eat 8-10 oz of food each per day. I think he's eating plenty even at the lower amount. As they age, they need to eat less.
 
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Squeaky and KT (GA) said:
Wish I had a magic answer for you Darnell. KT did the same thing of not waking up to eat at night. Even if I woke him up completely, he still just wanted to go back to sleep. I fed higher carb right before bed - didn't resolve it but helped. He still gave me stOOpid lows for AMPS and sailed high all day. Dakota wakes me up to eat about 3am so I don't have that issue with him...

Food - my big boys only eat 10-11 oz of food each per day. I think he's eating plenty even at the lower amount. As they age, they need to eat less.
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Thanks.
I feel bad feeding higher carb but I am so tired. I want him in good numbers but he doesnt act good in them. He is like a yo-yo.
I didnt offer food at 330am because he ate some before 330am. And this am he gave me lower than usual amps.
So I should just give higher carb at night so i can sleep and he is safe?
Is this normal when they start to get in better numbers?
 
I am not seeing any numbers at night that are worth worrying about. The lowest he is getting is mid to low blues. There is the odd lower blue during the day, so as per SLGS you would hold the dose,

As for food, is he maintaining weight on the new amount of food? Use the scale to determine if he's getting enough. Our older cats are less active and need less food.

I am not seeing any recent ketone test results on the SS. Any time he goes off food you should be testing daily.
 
Hey Darnell, a few questions: How much does Sprocket weigh? Is Sprocket at his ideal weight now? He probably lost weight during the DKA episodes and ketones but he is eating a lot of food. For instances, Bubba is 17.4 lbs and he eats 6 oz of raw food a day to maintain that weight. If he is at a good weight, he could be overfed. And if that's the case, that might be why he isn't interested in eating during the PM cycle or what you call "eating like a bird"

Also, I looked over the SS and I am not any diving that would require higher carbs. The goal is to get them in green numbers ( numbers under 100) and have them stay there. That is when their pancreas can heal.
 
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Wendy&Neko said:
I am not seeing any numbers at night that are worth worrying about. The lowest he is getting is mid to low blues. There is the odd lower blue during the day, so as per SLGS you would hold the dose,

As for food, is he maintaining weight on the new amount of food? Use the scale to determine if he's getting enough. Our older cats are less active and need less food.

I am not seeing any recent ketone test results on the SS. Any time he goes off food you should be testing daily.
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The numbers are because i been giving more carb so they dont drop lower. He is acting weird so i am scared to go to bed.
He is reducing his food intake since he has been on this dose. So i been giving more carb to make up difference.

I dont exactly know his weight. Dont have baby scale only human scale which is not that good.
He is not even 10 yrs old yet.
Ketone testing is getting hard cause he pees when i am in shower or sleeping or not home. He is getting sneaky.
 
I am with @Wendy&Neko , his morning AMPS's don't seem that low to me to feel like you should be having to steer at night. Your morning AMPS's have quite a bit of leeway before they start being worrisome.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey Darnell, a few questions: How much does Sprocket weigh? Is Sprocket at his ideal weight now? He probably lost weight during the DKA episodes and ketones but if he is eating a lot of food. For instances, Bubba is 17.4 lbs and he eats 6 oz of raw food a day to maintain that weight. If he is at a good weight, he could be overfed. And if that's the case, that might be why he isn't interested in eating during the PM cycle or what you call "eating like a bird"

Also, I looked over the SS and I am not any diving that would require higher carbs. The goal is to get them in green numbers ( numbers under 100) and have them stay there. That is when their pancreas can heal.
Click to expand...


Last i weighed him in december he was 17lbs but week before 16.5lbs so dont think my scale is that good. No baby scale.
He hasnt been interested in food at night since he started reducing his daily food to @11oz daily. About week-2.
When he naturally reduces his own intake he also acts ill. He sleeps alot, he looks sad, he hasnt played much, he seems to be bored with food.
He hasnt dropped too low at night because i been trying to give carbs so i could sleep. I am so tired.

This is my schedule:
6am- test amps/ feed/ shoot
7am - back to bed. Till about 1030am-11am depending on his amps bg.
11am ish test +4. Feed
Will usually test again about 2pm-3pm unless he is lower then i test more.
4pm pick up dishes
6pm test/feed/ shoot n give meds.
7pm make our dinner n eat.
Will test @1030pm-11pm depending on pmps bg.
Then feed. But lately will eat a small amount. I am not tired so i wait.
When i get tired i will test before bed and sometimes he is dropping cause he isnt eating same in night cycle as day cycle.
I get to bed about 1am-2am. Up at 330am to pick up dishes then sleep til 6am.

This is not working for me.
I need to sleep at night but how do i know he will be safe if he wont eat enough to keep him up enough?

I have already been told that he wont go into remission so i just need him safe under 250/300.
I was told before many times that 100s are healing bgs. And i can barely get him to surf in those most days.

This schedule is killing me.
I dont know how to make this work.
 
Darnell & Sprocket said:
Last i weighed him in december he was 17lbs but week before 16.5lbs
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Is this a good weight for him; your signature says he was 14.2 lbs. I am assuming that this was after his DKA event? So, he gained back some weight? Does he look good at this weight or is he heavy?

ETA: If he is eating 10 - 11 oz a day, he must be feeling okay. That is a lot of food. As I said before, Bubba is 17.4 lbs and only eats 6 oz a day. The formula for calories for feeding a cat is: Ideal weight X 13.5 +70 = the total calories a day.

If you look on your can food you will see the kcals on the can and times that my the amount you are giving him. Then do the formula above and see where you are. My guess is that he is getting way to much food and that is why he is disinterested at night.

The SS doesn't indicate that you should be too worried that he is going too low right at this time.
 
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I still think he feels icky cause he's not used to lower numbers. The point about age diminishing appy and need is important too. While everyone can agree that Sprocket needs to spend more time in lower numbers, the issue at hand is that the lower bgs are causing his cg, Darnell distress because he isn't eating as normal, can give big drops, and does have dka Hx. So can she safely ride these lower numbers if he still eats even only half or more his daily diet? Does she have reason for concern since besides eating less he also seems punky?
 
Myagi and Heidi said:
I still think he feels icky cause he's not used to lower numbers. The point about age diminishing appy and need is important too. While everyone can agree that Sprocket needs to spend more time in lower numbers, the issue at hand is that the lower bgs are causing his cg, Darnell distress because he isn't eating as normal, can give big drops, and does have dka Hx. So can she safely ride these lower numbers if he still eats even only half or more his daily diet? Does she have reason for concern since besides eating less he also seems punky?
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Ya. That explains it better.
Thank you.
I cant keep up with the schedule I wrote above. I am not sleeping enough for my own health conditions.
I need to know he is not gonna make a big drop and be safe so i can sleep.
He has been eating friskies awhile and now seems to be getting sick of many flavors. That worries me because we have already gone through alot of brands.
He seems to want something different every meal and no same flavor for like a week and i dont have that many flavors.
I have to open higher carb( like 7-9 and not many available) to get him to eat since he is eating less.

I would think that to keep same dose and safe then i would need to give more carbs if he eats less....right?
Or I would need to give less dose to balance the less food he wants to eat...right?
@Bobbie And Bubba
@Wendy&Neko
@Squeaky and KT (GA)
@Meridith and Zeke
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Is this a good weight for him; your signature says he was 14.2 lbs. I am assuming that this was after his DKA event? So, he gained back some weight? Does he look good at this weight or is he heavy?

ETA: If he is eating 10 - 11 oz a day, you must be feeling okay. That is a lot of food. As I said before, Bubba is 17.4 lbs and only eats 6 oz a day. The formula for calories for feeding a cat is: Ideal weight X 13.5 +70 = the total calories a day.

If you look on your can food you will see the kcals on the can and times that my the amount you are giving him. Then do the formula above and see where you are. My guess is that he is getting way to much food and that is why he is disinterested at night.

The SS doesn't indicate that you should be too worried that he is going too low right at this time.
Click to expand...


He did gain weight back. His lowest at dx was 12.5lbs. 3/2017 is when he was about 14lbs. He did go back up after that.
He seems to go up n down alot.
He looks good size. Has a pouch of skin that runs with him...lol but doesnt look too fat.

His disinterest in food only started within 2 weeks ago. Same time as when he started eating @ 11oz instead of 12 or 13oz.
I am afraid he will keep getting worse like last time.

I know his numbers still have room to drop but he is known for big drops in odd times. So i worry i cant go to sleep when he doesnt want to eat much.
If i knew he would eat when i sleep then i wouldnt be worried.
He usually wont even eat when i leave the house. He waits till i am there.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
How much does Sprocket weigh? 11 - 12 oz is a huge amount of food unless what you're feeding him is very low in calories.
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After the er hospital he was eating 12-15oz a day. He is part Maine Coon so he isnt supposed to be small.
Last i weighed him in December he was 17lbs. I will weigh again tonight when he gets up.
He eats friskies, some fancy feast, some proplan, some sheba.
He has an appt with vet next Tuesday for full check up with bloodwork.
 
Don't change dose if his eating habits change, but rather dose by what BG numbers he shows. Don't try to anticipate that changing eating habits will be significant. Let his numbers be the guide.

Do you have an autofeeder? If so, one thing to get more sleep is to have it turn to an empty slot at +10 at night, rather than getting up to lift the dishes.

I know it's hard to get over your fear of lower numbers, but I found Neko much more predictable in lower numbers so I learned to prefer lower numbers. When she was high she could drop or not. She was much flatter in lower numbers. Sprocket needs to spend time in lower numbers before he will feel good three. Higher numbers are his normal.
 
Darnell & Sprocket said:
Ketone testing is getting hard cause he pees when i am in shower or sleeping or not home. He is getting sneaky.
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With his history of ketones and DKA you must be vigilant. Testing daily for the presence of ketones is your first line of defense. Have you considered getting a meter that checks blood for ketones? The strips are pricey but you only use one or 2 a day. It will make life easier for you - no more stalking the litter box to catch him peeing.

So, the recipe for the formation of ketones is-
an insufficient supply of insulin + not enough calories + infection OR other systemic stresses.

He needs plenty of calories and plenty of insulin to convert those calories to usable energy his body needs to function.

Back in our day (FDMB class of 2008-2009) the rule of thumb was that a kitty recovering from DKA needs to consume at least 1.5 times the calories normally needed to maintain optimum weight. My BK got down to 7.5 lbs after DKA episode 2. Afterwards he was eating between 16-20oz. per 24 hours. After about one month he tapered down to 11oz or so. Five months later his weight was a slightly chubby 12.5lbs (his best weight was about 11lbs) and he was eating maybe 9oz per day.

Darnell & Sprocket said:
This week he has been in good numbers but I am chasing his with carbs so he wont drop because 1) he seems to mostly surf at night, & i need to sleep. I been very tired lately. Trying not to get sick.
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What exactly do you mean by "chasing him with carbs"...
What is the carb content he is fed normally?
Darnell & Sprocket said:
I know his numbers still have room to drop but he is known for big drops in odd times.
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Where on the ss can we see an example of the big drops you mention?
 
Chuck is always ready to eat. When he's in higher numbers he is always "starving" and begging for food. When he's in better numbers he doesn't eat as fast but still eats the same amount. Sometimes he skips his snacks in better numbers too.
I believe their appy decreasing in better numbers is normal but not to the point of not eating enough calories.
I've seen post DKA and ketone prone cats get more food or medium-higher carb food to allow them to continue getting the amount of insulin they need to keep ketones at bay. So feeding the 9 carb food to allow him the amount of insulin is ok as long as it's not pushing him into numbers that are too high.
I agree with Wendy about not changing dose based on appy alone. With the exception if he doesn't eat at all-seek advice here or the vet. Look at his numbers and see if there's a pattern that shows when he drops to the numbers your talking about.
Looking at your SS it looks like recently he had a bigger drop on 1/14 and 1/28 (still well into safe numbers on the 28th) early in the AM cycles. On your 2016/2017 SS it looks like most of the bigger/dramatic drops were on doses higher than 2.75-- most being 3+ units.
To get more sleep, the auto feeder is a good idea. You can test before bed and decide if he needs a little more carbs in his snacks overnight and plan a mid cycle test vs getting up multiple times a night to test and feed.
Like Wendy, lantus works better at keeping my cat in good and flatter numbers than it does pulling him down from high numbers.
Just wanted to offer my thoughts and support.
 
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