? 1/19/2018 | Darwin - S. Boulardii Q's?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tasha & Darwin

Member Since 2017
Condo

AMBG=72

Darwin had a recheck x-ray and vet visit today, and things are looking better in his chest - yay! He's feeling great, and his appetite is back to normal now. We still need to do another two weeks of his Clavamox and Orbax (boo!), but at least we don't need to add steroids (phew!).

He's still having diarrhea, but I'm thinking it's likely from the antibiotics. He's back on FortiFlora now, so hopefully that'll help firm things up.

Sending lots of vines to all the kitties in need! :bighug::bighug:
 
He's still having diarrhea, but I'm thinking it's likely from the antibiotics. He's back on FortiFlora now, so hopefully that'll help firm things up.
Have you considered using Saccharomyces Boulardii? It worked wonders for my kittens, and @Marje and Gracie swears by it. I gave them about 1/6 of a capsule when their stool was loose, then backed it off a touch to 1/8 when it got better. Marje could tell you the best dose for Darwin.
 
Have you considered using Saccharomyces Boulardii? It worked wonders for my kittens, and @Marje and Gracie swears by it. I gave them about 1/6 of a capsule when their stool was loose, then backed it off a touch to 1/8 when it got better. Marje could tell you the best dose for Darwin.

It's funny you should ask because I just happened upon a thread about this, and was wondering if I should give it a try. He's got to stay on both antibiotics for two more weeks, so I'd like to help his tummy out if that's what's causing the diarrhea (which I suspect it is). He doesn't seem to have urgency to poop, and he is not nauseous, but it's far from ideal to continue to have diarrhea for the next two weeks o_O

I have a link to the information about Saccharomyces Boulardii, but wondering if it's something I can find in a store vs online so I can start it more quickly? Do you happen to know if it's relatively tasteless? Darwin will eat his Lysine mixed into a meal, but I am hesitant to ad anything that would put him off of his food....
 
It's funny you should ask because I just happened upon a thread about this, and was wondering if I should give it a try. He's got to stay on both antibiotics for two more weeks, so I'd like to help his tummy out if that's what's causing the diarrhea (which I suspect it is). He doesn't seem to have urgency to poop, and he is not nauseous, but it's far from ideal to continue to have diarrhea for the next two weeks o_O

I have a link to the information about Saccharomyces Boulardii, but wondering if it's something I can find in a store vs online so I can start it more quickly? Do you happen to know if it's relatively tasteless? Darwin will eat his Lysine mixed into a meal, but I am hesitant to ad anything that would put him off of his food....

I don’t see a condo for today so I’ll respond here. I believe you can buy Florastor at Walmart and it has S. boulardi. The therapeutic dose is 1/2 cap twice a day but I’d start at 1/4 cap twice a day and if he tolerates it well, increase after a few days. If he’s got bad diarrhea, you might want to try the “emergency stop” method.

From RawFeedingForIBDCats.org:
EMERGENCY “STOP DIARRHEA” DOSING INSTRUCTIONS
Jarrow Brand S. Boulardii is the most commonly locally available S. Boulardii supplement (in the U.S.). It is usually sold as S. Boulardii + MOS. “MOS” are mannan-oligosaccharides, a medium that promotes utilization of the probiotic in the intestines. It seems the MOS makes the product bitter, as most kitties will eat
“plain” S. boulardii (Nutricology, A.O.R. and Renew Life brands listed here) when sprinkled on or mixed into foods - but not the S. Boulardii with MOS. This is not to say this product cannot be used, it can, but it usually needs to be syringed or pilled into the cat. If you can find an S. boulardii supplement at 5 billion CFU without MOS (there are plenty of other brand options, at least online), you may find it easier to use if your cat is not inappetent. Jarrow does have a product available in premeasured packets rather than capsules. If available, these packets will make it a little easier to use for emergency treatment if you have or can purchase small (size 3) empty capsules. Some cats eat the Jarrow S boulardii mixed into a bit of Beechnut baby food and fed as a “treat.”

For emergency “stop diarrhea” use, it is recommended to purchase size 3 empty capsules. Fill 10 or so of these, and administer them to your cat every 2 hours. This often stops diarrhea within 24 –48 hours, other than when diarrhea is caused by another disease that requires treatment (low B12, exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, hyperthyroidism, as examples). This “loading dose” can be continued for three to four days if necessary. It is NOT necessary to use this approach, it can be given at “therapeutic” doses twice a day (and doubled if you see improvement in stool but diarrhea
or soft cow patty stools have not resolved).
NOTE: IF USE OF S BOULARDII MAKES DIARRHEA WORSE, STOP.
Give kitty a break for 3 days, and start over at a MUCH smaller amount, and very slowly work up to the therapeutic dose. If even the small amount makes diarrhea worse, your cat is likely sensitive to yeasts and this cannot be given. When the diarrhea has resolved with use of the emergency stop treatment protocol, begin use of S. boulardii at the therapeutic dose level (2.5 billion CFU twice daily) and continue for at least one week and up to one month; then adjust dose to the maintenance level (half that), or use the Nexabiotic 21-strain probiotic for maintenance. If stools soften, resume use of S. boulardii at the therapeutic dose as needed. Given its role in improving performance of bacterial probiotics and its anti-inflammatory properties, the use of S boulardii at maintenance levels can be continued indefinitely along with a bacterial probiotic.

The S. boulardi with MOS, while the best, does have a bad taste. I use the Renew Life S. boulardi but I have to order it.
 
The S. boulardi with MOS, while the best, does have a bad taste. I use the Renew Life S. boulardi but I have to order it.

Is this the one use @Marje and Gracie? I thought he was a bit better, but diarrhea in the box tonight. I doubt he'll eat the one with MOS as everything I've read says it's very bitter, and he's pretty particular about eating anything unusual. I'm hoping he'll eat the regular one with his dinner (when he loves the FortiFlora I add).
 
Is this the one use @Marje and Gracie? I thought he was a bit better, but diarrhea in the box tonight. I doubt he'll eat the one with MOS as everything I've read says it's very bitter, and he's pretty particular about eating anything unusual. I'm hoping he'll eat the regular one with his dinner (when he loves the FortiFlora I add).
Yes. Personally, I wouldn’t use Fortiflora unless he won’t eat his food without it. It’s not really a probiotic and it has really bad ingredients like animal digest.

In addition, probiotics made specifically for animals are generally not strong enough to do the job. Human probiotics are much more beneficial for them due to the higher number of CFUs.
 
Yes. Personally, I wouldn’t use Fortiflora unless he won’t eat his food without it. It’s not really a probiotic and it has really bad ingredients like animal digest.

I agree with all of this, and my dog is on human probiotics daily, but I had read quite a few articles linking Fortiflora (specifically) with help in controlling Feline Herpes. Since I got Darwin onto canned food, and have been able to give Fortiflora; his Herpes symptoms are significantly more controlled. I did wonder if the studies done just hadn't been done on any other probiotic formulas, and whether that had nothing to do with Fortiflora itself, but I have definitely seen results. Maybe he would do just as well with a proper probiotic like I give my dog? o_O
 
I agree with all of this, and my dog is on human probiotics daily, but I had read quite a few articles linking Fortiflora (specifically) with help in controlling Feline Herpes. Since I got Darwin onto canned food, and have been able to give Fortiflora; his Herpes symptoms are significantly more controlled. I did wonder if the studies done just hadn't been done on any other probiotic formulas, and whether that had nothing to do with Fortiflora itself, but I have definitely seen results. Maybe he would do just as well with a proper probiotic like I give my dog? o_O

I've had good results with Fortiflora controlling Bandit's recurrent GI issues. Animal digest isn't a great ingredient, but it's not harmful, and I did not have as good results trying out a human probiotic with him. So, Fortiflora it is for us. I don't give it all the time, only when his GI issues act up.

It can be a delicate balance keeping everything together that's working with some cats, so if the Fortiflora is working well for and you don't want to mess with it, I think that's fine. If you want to experiment to see if a human probiotic work as well for you (and would likely be less expensive), you can always go back to the Fortiflora if you're not seeing good results.
 
I agree with all of this, and my dog is on human probiotics daily, but I had read quite a few articles linking Fortiflora (specifically) with help in controlling Feline Herpes. Since I got Darwin onto canned food, and have been able to give Fortiflora; his Herpes symptoms are significantly more controlled. I did wonder if the studies done just hadn't been done on any other probiotic formulas, and whether that had nothing to do with Fortiflora itself, but I have definitely seen results. Maybe he would do just as well with a proper probiotic like I give my dog? o_O
I use L Lysine for my kitty with feline herpes.

I've had good results with Fortiflora controlling Bandit's recurrent GI issues. Animal digest isn't a great ingredient, but it's not harmful, and I did not have as good results trying out a human probiotic with him. So, Fortiflora it is for us. I don't give it all the time, only when his GI issues act up.
.
Animal digest is harmful if it comes from euthanized animals who have been euthanized with pentobarbital. Unless you can get your vet to get a statement that the animal digest used is from USDA certified meats, not just a USDA certified facility, then I wouldn’t bet on it’s safety. It isn’t worth it to me. Purina has a bad track record of taking short cuts.
 
Yum had horrible liquid poo from an antibiotic in November/December. S. Boulardii and pumpkin finally conquered it. I think I needed both together.
I bought the S. Boulardii with MOS at Whole Foods, their house brand. I started out smearing it on her paw (thinking she would hate it), but when I later put it in her food she didn't object. I don't think it's bitter.
I posted about her diarrhea in several threads. I gave her a 5 billion CFU capsule twice a day, and 1/2 teaspoon of pumpkin twice a day.
 
Yum had horrible liquid poo from an antibiotic in November/December. S. Boulardii and pumpkin finally conquered it. I think I needed both together.
I bought the S. Boulardii with MOS at Whole Foods, their house brand. I started out smearing it on her paw (thinking she would hate it), but when I later put it in her food she didn't object. I don't think it's bitter.
I posted about her diarrhea in several threads. I gave her a 5 billion CFU capsule twice a day, and 1/2 teaspoon of pumpkin twice a day.
That's good to know about it possibly not being bitter. I just ordered some without MOS online, but if it doesn't do the trick; I will try with MOS, and see if I can get my picky boy to eat it. I know he won't touch pumpkin! He is skeptical of anything new (when he ever dropped low, he would be weary enough not to eat his FF classic with a few drops of the MC or HC gravy mixed in!) - silly boy!
 
I understand it's icky to think about, but there's no way a packet of Fortiflora could possibly contain enough pentobarbital to have any sort of effect on a cat.
It’s certainly up to you but, for me, no amount of pentobarbital is worth it and a little here or there adds up.

After 11 cats and all the conditions they’ve had, I’d like to think I’ve learned something about what they are exposed to and how it effects them. My current two will benefit from that. They get very clean, species appropriate raw diets and probiotics, digestive enzymes, etc. No antibiotics unless there is an absolute dx bacterial infection requiring it, and very few supplements (e.g. L Lysine to keep Tobey’s herpes at bay and he hasn’t had an outbreak since Gracie crossed).
 
That's good to know about it possibly not being bitter. I just ordered some without MOS online, but if it doesn't do the trick; I will try with MOS, and see if I can get my picky boy to eat it. I know he won't touch pumpkin! He is skeptical of anything new (when he ever dropped low, he would be weary enough not to eat his FF classic with a few drops of the MC or HC gravy mixed in!) - silly boy!
Cats!!!
 
I use L Lysine for my kitty with feline herpes.
Darwin is on L-Lysine too, and I suppose I actually cannot say whether it's the addition of that alone that has helped control his Herpes. It's definitely possible.

It’s certainly up to you but, for me, no amount of pentobarbital is worth it and a little here or there adds up.
I agree. And quite honestly, I am not a fan of giving my money to Purina anyway. I'd rather find a better alternative.

They get very clean, species appropriate raw diets and probiotics, digestive enzymes, etc. No antibiotics unless there is an absolute dx bacterial infection requiring it, and very few supplements (e.g. L Lysine to keep Tobey’s herpes at bay and he hasn’t had an outbreak since Gracie crossed).
Love this! This is how my dog is fed, and it pains me that Darwin is still eating canned food vs raw. It's so easy for Arya (my dog) who will literally eat anything, and will readily accept high-quality probiotics and digestive enzymes in her meals - have to work on Darwin accepting better things!

Once I am sure his appetite is not going to drop off again - the plan is to get him over to a raw diet. I know he's going to be stubborn, but if I got that kibble-addicted cat off of dry food; I think I can do anything :p

Thanks for all your help!
 
I posted about her diarrhea in several threads. I gave her a 5 billion CFU capsule twice a day, and 1/2 teaspoon of pumpkin twice a day.

I'm battling Tyler'd diarrhea right now but only giving half that amount of s.boulardii. So, it is OK to give two 5 billion capsules a day?
 
It’s certainly up to you but, for me, no amount of pentobarbital is worth it and a little here or there adds up.

After 11 cats and all the conditions they’ve had, I’d like to think I’ve learned something about what they are exposed to and how it effects them. My current two will benefit from that. They get very clean, species appropriate raw diets and probiotics, digestive enzymes, etc. No antibiotics unless there is an absolute dx bacterial infection requiring it, and very few supplements (e.g. L Lysine to keep Tobey’s herpes at bay and he hasn’t had an outbreak since Gracie crossed).

I'm just saying that not everyone has the luxury of discontinuing it when their (my) choice is using Fortiflora with a very small risk of harm vs the very real risk of the effect of increased blood sugar and decreased appetite due to GI discomfort. If Tasha can discontinue it in favor of something else that works for her, that's awesome. I wasn't able to do that, and with no less than 5 serious chronic conditions I'm currently dealing with Bandit right now, it's a delicate balance. We all make the best choices we can.
 
I have a kitty with IBD who suffered for two years with chronic, non-stop diarrhea. The thing that finally cleared it up was s.boulardii in conjunction with Slippery Elm Bark (SEB). I use NOW brand s.boulardii from Amazon, and for "emergency stop" I use a full 500 billion capsule mixed in food (it's tasteless) twice a day. Once the diarrhea stops I lower it to 1/2 capsule twice a day. At the time she started it, my cat probably weighed under 6 lbs. She has been diarrhea free for a year, now, as long as I watch her diet closely. If she does start to have loose stools I immediately put her back on the maintenance dose (1/2 cap twice daily) 'til it clears up, usually within a day.

Slippery Elm Bark can also be very helpful. I add it to her food with some extra water mixed in - I do think it has a very mild taste but I don't think she notices, and she's pretty picky. Just be careful if you use the SEB not to give it within 2 hours of any other oral meds as it can inhibit the absorption of the meds.

I always add extra water to all my cat's food. It's especially important to keep them well-hydrated if they have diarrhea.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I have a kitty with IBD who suffered for two years with chronic, non-stop diarrhea. The thing that finally cleared it up was s.boulardii in conjunction with Slippery Elm Bark (SEB). I use NOW brand s.boulardii from Amazon, and for "emergency stop" I use a full 500 billion capsule mixed in food (it's tasteless) twice a day. Once the diarrhea stops I lower it to 1/2 capsule twice a day. At the time she started it, my cat probably weighed under 6 lbs. She has been diarrhea free for a year, now, as long as I watch her diet closely. If she does start to have loose stools I immediately put her back on the maintenance dose (1/2 cap twice daily) 'til it clears up, usually within a day.

Slippery Elm Bark can also be very helpful. I add it to her food with some extra water mixed in - I do think it has a very mild taste but I don't think she notices, and she's pretty picky. Just be careful if you use the SEB not to give it within 2 hours of any other oral meds as it can inhibit the absorption of the meds.

I always add extra water to all my cat's food. It's especially important to keep them well-hydrated if they have diarrhea.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Thanks! It should be here tomorrow from Amazon so I am hoping it helps! I've never tried SEB, but always heard great things. Darwin has always been very good in the stool department - one good thing. I'm sure it's the two antibiotics that are causing his diarrhea. I do add some water to his food anyway - if I add too much, he won't eat it :rolleyes::rolleyes: He's always been a good water drinker at least.

Thankfully, he doesn't seem to be "sick" with the diarrhea. I'm finding only one or two of his stools daily (which is about normal), and he's not desperate to going outside of the litterbox. Plus, he's eating great. Hoping the S.B. helps!
 
I'm battling Tyler'd diarrhea right now but only giving half that amount of s.boulardii. So, it is OK to give two 5 billion capsules a day?
Absolutely. I was also giving her slippery elm bark for morning foamy vomit due to kidney disease. I attribute the diarrhea cure though to the S. boulardii and pumpkin.
 
Love this! This is how my dog is fed, and it pains me that Darwin is still eating canned food vs raw. It's so easy for Arya (my dog) who will literally eat anything, and will readily accept high-quality probiotics and digestive enzymes in her meals - have to work on Darwin accepting better things!

Once I am sure his appetite is not going to drop off again - the plan is to get him over to a raw diet. I know he's going to be stubborn, but if I got that kibble-addicted cat off of dry food; I think I can do anything :p

You can do it! It was an arduous process to get Asia off kibble and on to raw, but her teeth extractions warranted wet food only and it was near the time of all the melamine pet food horror so I did my homework before deciding on BARF (Raw diet). I just had a real problem getting Toki to switch from Stella & chewys to radcat. She refused to eat s&c after they added a new ingredient and she refused to eat radcat too! I finally had luck with putting parm cheese on Toki’s food. :rolleyes: But she is a cheese bandit, if she can find any cheese, she wants to eat it, weirdo!

Not fun, not easy, but possible, and like you said, getting rid of the kibble is so much more difficult! Good luck with the diet change! :bighug:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top