Checking in on Oreo's meds and syringe feedings

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I'm so sorry. I'm glad you and Oreo are giving each other a little comfort, and that he doesn't seem to be in distress. It sounds like he's still in the game, eating and at least trying to use the litter box. I think you have the right idea here; let him tell you when it is time, and in the meantime give him all the support he needs.

Thanks for the update, even if it's not the best news. Keeping you guys in my thoughts. :bighug:
 
Nan & Amber said:
I'm so sorry. I'm glad you and Oreo are giving each other a little comfort, and that he doesn't seem to be in distress. It sounds like he's still in the game, eating and at least trying to use the litter box. I think you have the right idea here; let him tell you when it is time, and in the meantime give him all the support he needs.

Thanks for the update, even if it's not the best news. Keeping you guys in my thoughts. :bighug:
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Thank you!
He is so sweet on my lap. Curled up with wake up times to be held.
 
Mirilax works by drawing water into the colon. If you can get fluids into him, it may help him feel better.

To test for dehydration, tent the scruff the neck as if giving an insulin shot. If the skin stays up for more than a few seconds, the cat is dehydrated. Dehydration can make a cat feel miserable, and they frequently perk up after fluids.

Are you doing subq fluids at home?
 
After despair last evening there is joy in the morning. When I got up I checked the box and nothing. Got ready for the day and decided since it was 5 AM I would hold off on feeding a bit. Last evening Oreo Joe refused to eat Laid his head to the side and let even just water run out. Roger came in let out a whoop and said he went he went. fat thumb size. Still didn't want to eat but it went down anyway and I came in from cleaning up the kitchen and went to cuddle him and he went an even larger amount. He is curled up with his nose tucked in a fold on my lap blanket. I do know how to give fluids from my Renal failure cat but Oreo is drinking and peeing and nice moist gums. Wow.
Quick question I am paying $7.35 per 12 cc syringe! I started 2 new ones Friday and I wash them in hot water and fill and rinse the syringe and let dry, but by Monday morning it takes all the strength I have to draw up a syringe full of puree. The holes are perfect, no bites that flatten them. When I start to feed 2 min later I have to push so hard to get it started I lose a bit of the puree. It is like trying to draw up cement. I certainly can't afford $14 every 3 days. Have any of you had this problem?? Thank you!! :bighug::)
 
Hooray Oreo! :woot: I hope this makes him feel better!

I don't know about the syringes. On another thread people were talking about there being a thin layer of lubricant inside insulin syringes-- maybe it's the same with these, so when you wash them the lubricant is removed and it's harder to move the plunger?
 
Nan & Amber said:
Hooray Oreo! :woot: I hope this makes him feel better!

I don't know about the syringes. On another thread people were talking about there being a thin layer of lubricant inside insulin syringes-- maybe it's the same with these, so when you wash them the lubricant is removed and it's harder to move the plunger?
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I googled for sticky syringes and found a blog that said that they don't have a long life and to buy a baby feeding syringe. Another idea was a baster like for a turkey and the last idea was a cake decorator with a bag and the tips. Hubby was down town and I called him to buy one and he came home with tips big enough to feed a cow. Well I am exaggerating some. I couldn't get the syringes filled so had used a small 5 cc one to feed him. I am not doing that again so got some package tape out and covered ½ of that cake decorating hole. I will see how that goes in a few hours. I oiled the plunger and pulled some up into the syringe and I can squirt it out a bit better but not great. If my brat continues on the no eat thing I will have to see what I can order on line if they don't have baby ones at the pharmacy. I wish I could wish for a Walmart and have it appear down the road. lol
 
Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
After despair last evening there is joy in the morning. When I got up I checked the box and nothing. Got ready for the day and decided since it was 5 AM I would hold off on feeding a bit. Last evening Oreo Joe refused to eat Laid his head to the side and let even just water run out. Roger came in let out a whoop and said he went he went. fat thumb size. Still didn't want to eat but it went down anyway and I came in from cleaning up the kitchen and went to cuddle him and he went an even larger amount. He is curled up with his nose tucked in a fold on my lap blanket. I do know how to give fluids from my Renal failure cat but Oreo is drinking and peeing and nice moist gums. Wow.
Quick question I am paying $7.35 per 12 cc syringe! I started 2 new ones Friday and I wash them in hot water and fill and rinse the syringe and let dry, but by Monday morning it takes all the strength I have to draw up a syringe full of puree. The holes are perfect, no bites that flatten them. When I start to feed 2 min later I have to push so hard to get it started I lose a bit of the puree. It is like trying to draw up cement. I certainly can't afford $14 every 3 days. Have any of you had this problem?? Thank you!! :bighug::)
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If you're using these to syringe food or water into Oreo, you can try putting a very thin rubbing of cooking oil on the edge of the plunger that touches the inner wall of the syringe. Push the plunger up and down a few times to get it moving smoothly. When you're done wash the syringe well because oils can degrade the syringe rubber over time. I do this whenever I have to syringe meds, etc. into my horse's mouth. Those syringes are huge and it's hard to push the plunger.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
If you're using these to syringe food or water into Oreo, you can try putting a very thin rubbing of cooking oil on the edge of the plunger that touches the inner wall of the syringe. Push the plunger up and down a few times to get it moving smoothly. When you're done wash the syringe well because oils can degrade the syringe rubber over time. I do this whenever I have to syringe meds, etc. into my horse's mouth. Those syringes are huge and it's hard to push the plunger.
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I put cooking oil in and it pushed out a bit easier. I need a metal syringe. lol Thanks I have trouble with the 12 cc syringes that are called 10 cc for some reason. My hands hurt all the time and pushing on anything is hard. A long time ago my other cat needed feeding for a few days. The vet I learned to hate gave me a syringe and food and it was a 20 cc or larger I said that it was to big for my hand to hold and he told me that was what he used and I could use it too. I finger fed her for a week. I had no transportation to go to town to get smaller.
 
On the poop side of things, it's wise to actually examine the stools produced every day to make sure that they're well formed but with a softly yielding consistency that will be comfortable for Oreo Joe to pass without straining. Doing this should help you to monitor the efficacy of his constipation treatments and make sure that the dose is right.

I keep a little plastic takeaway food container for this purpose. I line it with loo paper, pop the stool into it and then with a decent wad of folded loo paper in hand I squish the stool to see how firm it is. (And yes, I do wash my hands afterwards! :smuggrin: )

:bighug:


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
On the poop side of things, it's wise to actually examine the stools produced every day to make sure that they're well formed but with a softly yielding consistency that will be comfortable for Oreo Joe to pass without straining. Doing this should help you to monitor the efficacy of his constipation treatments and make sure that the dose is right.

I keep a little plastic takeaway food container for this purpose. I line it with loo paper, pop the stool into it and then with a decent wad of folded loo paper in hand I squish the stool to see how firm it is. (And yes, I do wash my hands afterwards! :smuggrin: )

:bighug:


Mogs
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His stools are hard but now that he is going I hope the Miralax will get them soft. He went 1 more time today so with all 3 he must have had it up to his ears. He some how knew I was cutting chicken breasts for our dinner and showed up begging!! He ate 4 or 5 small pieces of raw breast. His favorite of all foods. Oh don't use a cake decorating kit to feed it was a disaster.
 
Miralax is a 'dose to effect' treatment, Bonnie (hence my recommendation to check the consistency/form of each stool in case the dose might need to be tweaked).

How much Miralax are you currently giving Oreo Joe each day, Bonnie?


Mogs
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It might be worth keeping a little written log of amount fed, amount of water added to food (important because even mild dehydration can make stools drier), Miralax dose given and Oreo's stool quality each day (plus any other meds he's receiving). It will be a helpful guide for you and your vet. Your vet may be able to recommend additional things to help improve Oreo's stool consistency.


Mogs
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Larry and Kitties said:
"allowed" by who and why?
I have used larger dose
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Here we don't have Miralax so vets don't know about it. My last cat had diabetes handled by food but then had Kidney failure and I was in Tanya's group for that. She was having really hard stools and they said to giver her no more than 1/4th tsp 2 times daily. But now Oreo is having good daily stools that are formed but soft and no straining.
How much can one use if he gets into trouble again, although I will be using it daily since without it he gets constipated.
 
Oreo is mouse hunting. He carried on about a cupboard and I opened the door and he dug his way in the over filled space and knocked out a new pkg of spaghetti that a mouse had opened up. I think he caught and ate one 2 nights ago. He left a little pkg of what looked like mouse intestines in front of the toilet and has been staking out the kitchen.
Tuesday pm Oreo saw his new canned food on a plate and ate 2 TBLS looking so proud. Since then he has eaten a bit of raw chicken but today he is still not eating. He took his raw chicken and carried it 3 feet from the dish and left it on the floor. He did ask for his crunchy treats and ate a few. He looks at his food many times but then walks away. I will get a new pkg of Cerenia tomorrow. But how do I know if he is nauseated he doesn't gag or throw up and he is getting 36 cc of pureed food only, no water mixed in, 4 times a day. Can I give him Pepcid 1/4 tab don't remember if it is 1 or 2 times a day? Or is there another idea? Remember he will never touch human food, never fish, never tuna, certainly not anything stinky etc. He went to a strictly chicken or turkey pate' and any other food was tossed out for the feral cats. The pharmacy found 5 cc syringes for 62 cents each and as I said I feed him 4 times a day. Would sure like to get him eating real food.
Thanks for any ideas.
 
I'm so happy Oreo was feeling zippy enough to do some mousing! :woot: That seems like a really good sign.

But it does sound like he's nauseated today-- the going to food and walking away is a sign. Are you raising the food bowls a few inches off the floor? That can help with mild nausea. Not sure about Pepcid.

In terms of other ideas, this is a long shot since he seems to prefer "plain" food, but there's something called a "liver shake" that has a good track record for appealing to cats that are feeling poorly. Might be worth a try if the ingredients are easily available to you.

Recipe: THE '~LIVER SHAKE~' FOR SICK CATS
 
I should add, if nausea is the problem, the liver shake isn't going to fix it, it's just something else to try to tempt him with.

Hope he's feeling better soon. I really am so encouraged by the mousing adventures!
 
Hi Bonnie,

I'm glad to hear that Oreo Joe is having a better time on the poop front! :)

From what you describe it sounds like Oreo is interested in food but just not able to eat properly by himself. You've got two issues running here:

1. Nausea possibly due to gut motility/constipation problems.

As I suggested before, it should help you to keep a daily record of how much Oreo is eating (via syringe or by himself) and also how much he is pooping every day. As I suggested before, if poor gut motility is a problem for Oreo then perhaps ask your vet about metoclopramide (Reglan - not suitable for long-term treatment). I've also seen mention here about a medication called cisapride which can help with gut motility problems but I've never used or researched it so don't have any practical suggestions or experience to share.

2. Possible non-constipation-related nausea.

As I posted before, both Cerenia and ondansetron can help cats with nausea. These drugs have different modes of action. Some cats do better with Cerenia, others do better with ondansetron. I have read here that some caregivers have used a combination of Cerenia and ondansetron to help their nauseated cats but I've never used the two together so can't offer any practical experience regarding such a treatment regimen.

I'm posting a link to a vet-authored article from DVM360 which discusses all of the treatments commonly used in cats and dogs to control nausea and vomiting. It might be worth printing off a copy and discussing which treatment might best help Oreo with your vet.

DVM360 - Treatments for Nausea and Vomiting

While the article mentions acute vomiting, the medications it talks about are used to treat nausea and vomiting. (Note: The article also discusses a class of drugs called phenothiazine antiemetics. I've never seen mention of the use of this class of drugs for cats.)

WRT Pepcid AC (famotidine), it's more of a treatment for stomach acid problems. While it may help a little with nausea issues, in my experience at least it is nothing like as effective as ondansetron or Cerenia for marked to severe nausea problems because all it does is reduce stomach acid production; it does not target the parts of the system that control nausea and vomiting).


Mogs
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Oreo is back on
Mirtazapin Alternova 15 mg tab 1/4 tab every 3 days for max of 10 days.
He is also continuing on the
Cerenia 16mg and broken to 1/4 tab once a day until he starts to eat.

His food bowl is elevated, his fountain is higher and he drinks often and is urinating normally. He has 1 or 2 well formed stools that are soft and no longer cause straining. I got a peek when he didn't see me. This morning he asked to play a bit with a mouse. Hide the mouse under a scatter rug and leave his tail stick out and he kills it. He has never been one to play more than a few swats at something.
I kept the liver recipe although I remember he did't like his chicken liver cat food. Ahh he wants only 4 star $100 meals.
 
Need Input Please!!
Oreo almost grabs my hand holding the syringe and starts licking - I don't put it in his mouth I hold just outside of his mouth and he licks as I slowly drizzle the puree out. He stops when he wants and can't believe I stop before he is ready. 38 to 40 cc's are gone in 10 minutes or less. He sits on my lap and using the Jedi mind control tries to get me to give him the entire bag (1/4th cup ) of crunchy treats. He saw I dropped it and had his head shoved in this tiny bag and was gobbling like a dog. He would simply eat bag after bag. But he doesn't eat his food that I give him fresh from the container. His puree is chicken or turkey and his regular food I have beef bits in sauce or beef bits in gel.
There are almost no choices of flavors in the only good brand of food here that he will eat. He leads me to the kitchen and begs at the refrigerator door. Sometimes he eats a piece of his raw chicken and it is small. Then begs for one more and leaves it and walks away. Now and then he will eat 2 or 3 bites of the regular food and then not touch food again for 2 days. He has a good sized normal stool daily, drinks and urinates 2 or 3 times a day. He has begun to jump up in the window sills and look out, climb on his cat gym
But what do I do with his hunger? Should I get a small bag of dry and hope he doesn't get addicted? Do I buy a different brand of cat food that is bad for him so I don't go through the only good canned and have him get tired of it all?
Vet ordered Cerenia on Thursday. Roger went to pick it up on Sat. and they didn't know I wanted it so hadn't ordered it! He can get it after noon tomorrow.
I want him to eat so badly my muscles are so stiff I can't turn my head, but I need this to go right for him, not just me.
Thanks for suggestions. Roger will help me down the steps and into the grocery store tomorrow so I can buy him food. No Evo anywhere near us if they have it here. I never checked, he was so happy to leave 2½ years of dry food behind he never wanted anything like that.
Oh I crumbled his crunchy treats and put a tsp full over a tiny piece of chicken and in another spot on 4 bits of food. He hasn't touched it.
 
Wow! Good to hear that Oreo is so interested in food!!!!

You know, I'm of the mind that, if he wants to eat, feed him what he wants to eat, whenever he wants to eat it. At least for now, while he's still getting back on his feet, the blood glucose regulation is taking a back seat. I would try to stay away from dry food as much as you can because of his constipation problems, but if that's what he wants, it's what he wants.

For the inconsistency (asking for food, then walking away), do you think he's associating you feeding him? Have you tried feeding him from your hand rather than leaving things in his bowl?

It's so good to hear his appetite is back, even if it's uncertain!
 
Nan & Amber said:
Wow! Good to hear that Oreo is so interested in food!!!!

You know, I'm of the mind that, if he wants to eat, feed him what he wants to eat, whenever he wants to eat it. At least for now, while he's still getting back on his feet, the blood glucose regulation is taking a back seat. I would try to stay away from dry food as much as you can because of his constipation problems, but if that's what he wants, it's what he wants.

For the inconsistency (asking for food, then walking away), do you think he's associating you feeding him? Have you tried feeding him from your hand rather than leaving things in his bowl?

It's so good to hear his appetite is back, even if it's uncertain!
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He takes all the treats from my hand or the lap blanket I have when sitting. Same with the chicken he varies although the last 2 pieces were from my hand.
I will see how small a bag of dry there is. But mostly will get a couple of cans of a totally different brand canned and can transition back. A small bag for crunches will give him a choice. His treats are 1.75 for 2.11 ounces. To expensive to fill a bowl with!! Thanks for the help.
 
Do I start a new thread when I have a new question? I am giving Oreo Cerenia and Mirtazapin Alternova- Question on the later, The vet said every 2 days but on here I was told never more than every 3 days. I thought that Mirtazapin Alternova 15 mg tab 1/4 tab every 3 days for max of 10 days. Every 3 days for max of 10 days mean from the 1st dose I counted to 10 days so there would be 3 doses and then stop. Sorry I am finding more confusion the more I am unable to rest, now I question if it was no more than 10 doses. Can someone help clear the fog. Nona of the new tricks with trying dry food, different bad brand canned etc have worked. He seems to be hungry and even comes to the feeding spot when called hops up and with no burrito wrap laps up the puree from the tip of the syringe like a cat will from a faucet. He stops when he wants and is upset if I pause the drizzling of the puree, when the 5cc syringe is empty and I switch to a new one he doesn't like that. he usually wants his treats but there again he will refuse them about 1/3 of the time. He gladly takes 10 or 15 cc in between his 4 feedings. I am just thinking how the Mirtazapin needs more than 3 doses. That is when I realized I could be thinking wrong.
If this is jumbled up please tell me as I said I am getting messed up too and don't make sense at times.
 
One quick idea you might try, if he's actively feeding off the syringe and you're trying to get him to eat on his own: hold a small plate under when you're syringe feeding him. Then see if you can gradually bring the syringe (and probably his chin if he follows the syringe) closer to the plate and maybe ooze the feed out of the syringe onto the plate to see if he will lap it up. Not sure I'm explaining well, but the idea is that if he laps what is oozing out of the syringe, if you can get the syringe to ooze first nearly on the plate and then on the plate WHILE he is lapping, he might just lap some off the plate. Does this make sense? Sorry if my explanation is complicated.
 
Stephanie & Quintus said:
One quick idea you might try, if he's actively feeding off the syringe and you're trying to get him to eat on his own: hold a small plate under when you're syringe feeding him. Then see if you can gradually bring the syringe (and probably his chin if he follows the syringe) closer to the plate and maybe ooze the feed out of the syringe onto the plate to see if he will lap it up. Not sure I'm explaining well, but the idea is that if he laps what is oozing out of the syringe, if you can get the syringe to ooze first nearly on the plate and then on the plate WHILE he is lapping, he might just lap some off the plate. Does this make sense? Sorry if my explanation is complicated.
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I will do that now! He stopped eating this morning to lick off what had dropped on the towel like he needed every drop. Thanks so much.
 
Let's all meet for a feast and watch that big boy of mine eating off a plate!
I tried a small plate I used for his chicken treats but the way he sits on my lap facing me the plate was a bit to big. Got a small paper plate the same size but folded it so it looked like a taco shell. I put it down lower than his head and he started to lick from the syringe and then some dripped off and he bent his head to find it and I raised the plate and squirted some puree on it and off he went. 35 cc's eaten like a little pig off the plate and he almost licked a hole in the plate. I knew he would need new puree for morning and thought I would fix it and then decided to try just the chicken pate' he ate 2 tablespoons of it and just sniffed the puree I put next to it. It was at his regular feeding place in my room. I am so excited I could dance.
His fountain died Wed and I ordered a new one, Won't get it until Tuesday but the other choice was a 6 hour round trip drive. He drinks from his bowl but first looks every where for his fountain.

I guess I keep up with his nausea and appetite stimulant a bit longer? The appetite tab that we gave him this morning I found on the floor a couple of hours ago.
This group rocks.
 
Hi Bonnie,

Please confirm the following with your vet:

Dosing info for mirtazapine: 1.8mg per cat every 48 hours.

Historically, dose was 3.75mg per cat every 72 hours but, according to the following article, giving the smaller dose is less likely to cause side effects:

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/mirtazapine-cats-how-much-too-much
http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/mirtazapine-cats-how-much-too-much
Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
Got a small paper plate the same size but folded it so it looked like a taco shell. I put it down lower than his head and he started to lick from the syringe and then some dripped off and he bent his head to find it and I raised the plate and squirted some puree on it and off he went. 35 cc's eaten like a little pig off the plate and he almost licked a hole in the plate.
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[Emphasis mine]

Cats with nausea issues can find it much more comfortable to eat and drink when they don't have to stoop down for the food and water.

Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
I guess I keep up with his nausea and appetite stimulant a bit longer?
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You need to keep them up as long as Oreo Joe needs them.

How are things on the poop front these days?


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Hi Bonnie,

Please confirm the following with your vet:

Dosing info for mirtazapine: 1.8mg per cat every 48 hours.

Historically, dose was 3.75mg per cat every 72 hours but, according to the following article, giving the smaller dose is less likely to cause side effects:

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/mirtazapine-cats-how-much-too-much


[Emphasis mine]

Cats with nausea issues can find it much more comfortable to eat and drink when they don't have to stoop down for the food and water.


You need to keep them up as long as Oreo Joe needs them.

How are things on the poop front these days?


Mogs
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He is regular in the litter box and the Miralax is keeping things normal He lapped up his entire meal this night feeding. Tried a few bites of his canned food. But I didn't have water in it. The bowl kept out for him always had water in it. He is so funny and so proud!! Will call the vet, The one on call had ordered 1/4 tab about 4 mg every 48 hours but here I was told every 72. I don't know how I can cut it smaller but will try. Just want to be sure about how many doses in a row I give. TY :)
 
Need help with Mirtazapin Alternova dose
The vet looked in their book on animal medications and says that there is nothing in it that says how long a cat can stay on this medication. I am giving the 1/8th tab every 48 hours.
Oreo Joe has to be fed by syringe very rarely. He will at times take a tiny lick of puree from his usual feeding place off his bowl. He at times will take a tiny bite of regular food or cooked chicken but so tiny it couldn't count toward intake. He will only eat sitting on my lap facing me, close to me, I took a small paper plate, put a fold in it. I hold one part against my chest and he eats off the little ledge ONLY if I squirt pureed food from a syringe slowly onto the plate. I can't get him to eat off a plain white plastic cover or anything else. I can see he is both hungry and nauseated. I give him Cerenia daily at his first feeding in the morning. The Mirtazapin Alternova at least 4½ to 5 hours later.
If someone can help me with the length of time he can take the Mirtazapin it would help. I don't want to kill him. Can he continue on it indefinitely? I understand he can with the Cerenia.
Thanks for any help.
 
Hi Bonnie,

Bonnie & Oreo Joe said:
I can see he is both hungry and nauseated. I give him Cerenia daily
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I recommend you let the vet know that Oreo is still showing signs of nausea even when receiving the Cerenia. Again I suggest asking your vet about trialling him on generic ondansetron to see whether that might help with the nausea. (Cerenia and ondansetron work in different ways so there's a possibility that the ondansetron may be of additional help with his nausea.)


Mogs
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Larry and Kitties said:
In all the studies and posts here and other places I have never hears of a time limit for using Mirtazapin.


I assume you mean 15 mg tabs. Mirtazipin is also available in 7 1/2 mg tabs.
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Hi Larry! I don't think we have the 7½ mg in Sweden. Ok then as long he doesn't get more weird than he is now I will keep it up. Question He has gone from nice normal soft formed stools to a very hard one yesterday. I remembered you said you have given more Miralax than 1/4th tsp 2 times a day so gave him more yesterday pm. Today there was nothing but a really small rock hard piece. He is drinking lots, in fact I thought maybe his BG was up but it was 88. He gets 40 ml of pureed food 4 times a day. How much do I dare give him of Miralax. The vet had thought that she felt a lump where nothing should be and we almost put him to sleep. Then he got better and she said that with the huge amount of stool he went 2 days later it could have been something else. I felt it when she helped me. I can't get it but what do I know? If Miralax doesn't work I will have to think the tumor grew and is blocking something. Then I will have to have him sent to the Bridge. I can't get water down with a syringe he drools it out but he really is drinking and peeing several times a day. The only laxative for cats here is paraffin oil and he was looking like I was making a candle out of him. It didn't help like the Miralax that I have always brought over when I visited the USA.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Bonnie,


I recommend you let the vet know that Oreo is still showing signs of nausea even when receiving the Cerenia. Again I suggest asking your vet about trialling him on generic ondansetron to see whether that might help with the nausea. (Cerenia and ondansetron work in different ways so there's a possibility that the ondansetron may be of additional help with his nausea.)
I will call her tomorrow and ask. Can he be on both or just the ondansetron. Hope we have that here. I am getting scared she really felt a tumor- I wrote to Larry and explained his poo problem.

Mogs
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I checked in with the other vet and we talked but I checked out the price and 10 tags are $50. I don't have 50 dollars. Still working on his poo. I asked the vet and she said the only choice was that paraffin oil which is awful.
 
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