12/14 Asia +10.5 97, PMPS 118, +1 113, +2 71

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Stacy & Asia

Member Since 2017
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/12-13-asia-pmps-269-1-5-208-3-114.187971/

Vet visit today. Good thing Asia has a double coat, it's below freezing and probably a 10 minute walk, and a little longer with snow and ice on the ground. I'm going to throw a cat sweater on her for good measure and put a thick blanket over her cat carrier. I used to giggle at all the people in the city that have dog and cat strollers, yes really, but now I kinda get how useful that would be!

+10 didn't warrant feeding, so I'm keeping my eyes peeled on the +1 and +2. My prediction for +1 is 65. :p
 
I don't think I've stopped in on Asia's condos. Nice to see Asia doing so well and ditching those reds and blacks on the SS. It sounds like you have a good plan on getting to the vet given her age. I can't believe she is 21! 8 years on a raw diet, she must have a great bean!!!

Safe travels and stay warm, that sounds like a chilly trip. I hope the vet has good news for your little one.
 
I don't think I've stopped in on Asia's condos. Nice to see Asia doing so well and ditching those reds and blacks on the SS. It sounds like you have a good plan on getting to the vet given her age. I can't believe she is 21! 8 years on a raw diet, she must have a great bean!!!

Safe travels and stay warm, that sounds like a chilly trip. I hope the vet has good news for your little one.

Hello! I really lucked in to the raw diet thing, I think it was ironically called BARF back then. She had crazy infection, and we couldn't figure out why, vet tried all kinds of things and nothing was working. Literally the day my vet came to euthanize her, there was blood around her mouth and we finally had a clue where the infection was coming from. It turned out to be tooth resorption. Then I had to research foods to switch her from kibble to wet and BARF seemed like the safest bet (the melamine pet food deaths were in the recent past at the time). Thankfully, civvie Toki benefitted and has been on raw her entire 8 years. Thanks for the well wishes.
 
+1.5 53, so she's not going to surf this, tsp of FF gravy and a drop of honey for good measure. This is a crazy week of the year for us, daughters preparing for holiday show and lots of running around buying paper mache shoes and annoying things like that. It's going to slow down after Saturday and on my agenda is to buy some karo syrup and lite karo syrup so I can experiment with different sugars. Still looking for a cat gravy only food additive. They didn't have anything like that at the boutique pet store (and even if they did, if it's high carb, it's probably made by a crap company anyway). I might just take my chances to make my own gravy. I won't know the carb content, but if I measure everything exactly each time, I should be able to get somewhat consistent results and can experiment with that. Just have to decide if I want to use wheat flour, cornstarch or what to thicken it (and add all the carbs).
 
I've seen the gravy "toppers" at the big box stores, but like you was not fond of the ingredients. I've had good luck with FF gravy lovers and maple syrup, but ECID. @Doodles & Karen had some packets she used, hopefully she can chime in on what brand they were.

The holidays are always a stressful time with so much going on. Glad things will calm down soon so you are not juggling so much stuff.

Nice premonition on the numbers and testing again to catch the low number. Giving some carbs to bring her up/surf is what I would do too.
 
+3 50, there's that old 20 point an hour drop again! Another tsp FF and another drop of honey. Hope we are over the hump soon as far as dropping goes. This cat. :rolleyes:
 
Boy were you spot on on the +1! Great job.

I hope she’s holding the dose and I don’t want to throw water on that but remember you shot early two nights in a row. You might be seeing the effects of that. Time will tell but paws crossed it’s the 1.75u working!

Good luck at the vet today. Sending good vetty vines!
 
Did not feed that one, no, in hindsight I should have because she's coming off a bounce,
bear with me, if you would, I am learning here:
I would rather read the 121@PMPS +10 as she was going to either bounce or that the shot was wearing off... why do you say she was clearing?
The AMPS 87 rather confirms your assessment but I wish I could understand why higher 121 signaled the end of a bounce?:confused: ETA: unless that 87 was her 2nd dip, then you gave the am shot and she onset @+1 getting 2 doses overlap?:confused:
(tell me if I haven't got you confused enough already - I can go on...;))
 
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bear with me, if you would, I am learning here:
I would rather read the 121@PMPS +10 as she was going to either bounce or that the shot was wearing off... why do you say she was clearing?
The AMPS 87 rather confirms your assessment but I wish I could understand why higher 121 signaled the end of a bounce?:confused:

So, this pertains specifically to Asia because it's a pattern of hers. The bounce was in the AM cycle yesterday, and her pattern for doing this is: bounce cycle, in between cycle, shark cycle (if the +10/AMPS are in low blue/high green range). I had sleepy brain when I assessed the 121. Normally, I would leave that alone because even with a double dip, her pattern would put her around 80 at preshot. Because this was coming a cycle away from the end of a bounce, however, I should have fed that +10 because the potential is: double dip, lowish AMPS, more dropping in the +2 and +3 and not likely to surf but to keep dropping instead.
 
Boy were you spot on on the +1! Great job.

I hope she’s holding the dose and I don’t want to throw water on that but remember you shot early two nights in a row. You might be seeing the effects of that. Time will tell but paws crossed it’s the 1.75u working!

Good luck at the vet today. Sending good vetty vines!
Rats! I forgot about that part. But she is full of surprises, maybe she will stick the landing! ;)
 
Back from vet, overall it went really well. I'm super impressed with how the dr and staff are with cats. It's a cat only practice, which I've never experienced before. He talked to her in a calm, gentle voice, gave her pets and kisses while he was messing with her. Just general calmness, and while Asia was vocal that she wasn't happy to be messed with, she was calm too. Night and day from the place that diagnosed her with FD and held her down with the force of a linebacker just to look in her eyes and ears! :rolleyes::mad:

He asked me if I would like to be present for all the tests! That's a new one. I said yes, and he and the tech did it all right there so I could look at and pet Asia and comfort her. This was how my old vet that came to the house did it and it's just way less stressful for Asia that way.

He was very impressed with her, especially being 21, he said usually they have trouble getting weight on seniors (probably seniors that are fed prescription low protein diets, but I kept that to myself). Her coat was great, muscle tone good, he manipulated all of her legs and said nothing too bad going on.

He said her cloudy eyes and changing eye color is nuclear sclerosis as opposed to cataracts which is what my home vet diagnosed her with.

Had blood drawn for a "senior panel" and he uses IDEXX so this includes the SDMA. He made a good case for why an ultrasound was a good idea, and I agreed with the value of it, but I asked if it would change anything at the end of the day for how I cared for her and he agreed it probably would not. He did say the test that points to pancreatitis was elevated in the last set of labs, I discovered that on my own because the last vet sure didn't make mention of it to me, but he saw it too and brought it up before I did. So the u/s is on hold for now. Will revisit after the labs.

He spent a good long time studying my SS, a tiny version on my cell phone. He said he didn't like the 50s on there, I said me neither. He said he would never give a full dose on an 87, and I reminded him that it is a published protocol and so far it's working pretty well. But overall I think he was happy with it and said he couldn't think of anything to add and that it looked pretty good. :p

He got a urine sample, which is something that has never been done in front of me. He and the tech did a great job of distracting Asia and petting her head energetically and while I can't go so far as to say she wasn't bothered, she certainly wasn't bothered very much at all. Far cry from the ER that did one on her and I read in their notes later "several pokes, traumatic".

He said he can draw me up some cerenia if I ever need to take her in a car and I can inject it. Yay! No pill! He was able to get in her mouth just long enough to pick off a cap of hardened plaque, he is only the second person to get in Asia's mouth (somewhat) successfully, the other bring my long time house call vet (who got fear peed on by Asia when she did it). :oops: We are going to see how the blood work goes, but he said even though they do dentals there, the way to go at her age and with her risks is board certified oral surgeon/anesthesiologist. He recommended one and it's one I had found as the top contender.

He did a BP at my request and said it was a good idea. He said it was normal, I think 120? Is what he said, I didn't write it down, but I will request his notes. It was normal. Yay!

So for the arthritis, not exactly was I was hoping for, but not a lost cause either. He said he hasn't seen much success with Adequan and other NSAIDs, supplements, etc. He thinks they are a slippery slope and can cause more problems than they are worth with bowel side effects and all that stuff. I'm on the same page with him there, that's why I don't really give Asia anything that isn't direly needed, like insulin, or like antibiotics for an infection. He liked the idea of acupuncture but said it would be good to address pain. He wasn't a fan of the bupe, he said you have to increase the dose over time as they build tolerance to opioids and that's another slippery slope. He said he likes gabapentin. I recall reading about that somewhere on here, and from memory I think it caused dementia like symptoms? I could be way off on that. he said he doesn't have any reason to believe transdermal preps of bupe or gabapentin work, but he was going to do some research on it since it's that or injections for us.

Practice is full of special needs looking kitties that are adoptable. I saw two very strange ones that were bony and totally muscle wasted, but they both had big old pot bellies, one was nearly dragging on the floor. I really wanted to ask what they were feeding those cats, something that can make them fat but they can't build muscle with?! Maybe it's some weird condition. Very curious.

@Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) I liked this vet, very thorough, kind and gentle. Won't give you too much trouble about the FD stuff, seemed more curious than put off, but my initial consult with him: he doses Lantus once a day, doesn't believe in prescribing Levemir, and wanted to do sliding scale doses. Nobody's perfect. He's also very on the west side, like if he wasn't on the ground floor, you'd have a clear view of the Hudson. I can pm you his info if you're interested.
 
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Oh and, no (lasting) BG vet spike, 61 out the door, 64 when I got back home. And also, can vet visit cause stress GI stuff? She had a very mousse consistency poo the second we got home. Not quite diarrhea, but close.
 
Wonderful day for Asia. Just look at those numbers! She didn't even show a vet bounce. Sounds like you found a really good practice too. A cat-only office sounds awesome.
 
I liked this vet, very thorough, kind and gentle. Won't give you too much trouble about the FD stuff, seemed more curious than put off, but my initial consult with him: he doses Lantus once a day, doesn't believe in prescribing Levemir, and wanted to do sliding scale doses. Nobody's perfect. He's also very on the west side, like if he wasn't on the ground floor, you'd have a clear view of the Hudson. I can pm you his info if you're interested.
Thanks, Stacy. Sounds like you had a good exam and consult. If I should ever need to see a vet in the city, I will PM you for his name.
Asia: ya done good!
 
Fed her +10 tonight just because of the cycle she gave me today (just regular radcat). Giving this +2 some FF & honey
 
Just gorgeous numbers, Stacy!
Re: the gravy: I was in a real quandry about that, as I couldn't seem to get gravy out of the foods with gravy... I want to give credit where credit is due: either @LizzieInTexas or @Christie & Maverick gave me this tip: Cats in the Kitchen pouches. It's SO easy to get the gravy out of those; just cut a small corner off and squeeze the gravy out. This works really, really well for Girlie and we now have access to gravy that's from 12 to 18% carbs. I wonder if this would work for you and Asia as well?
 
Just gorgeous numbers, Stacy!
Re: the gravy: I was in a real quandry about that, as I couldn't seem to get gravy out of the foods with gravy... I want to give credit where credit is due: either @LizzieInTexas or @Christie & Maverick gave me this tip: Cats in the Kitchen pouches. It's SO easy to get the gravy out of those; just cut a small corner off and squeeze the gravy out. This works really, really well for Girlie and we now have access to gravy that's from 12 to 18% carbs. I wonder if this would work for you and Asia as well?
I will check that out, her carb response is so puny, I feel like 18-20% might be something worth trying. I got this tiki cat mousse stuff the other day, hoping it was gravy like, only to find out when I got home and called the company...it's zero carbs! :rolleyes:
 
Back from vet, overall it went really well. I'm super impressed with how the dr and staff are with cats. It's a cat only practice, which I've never experienced before. He talked to her in a calm, gentle voice, gave her pets and kisses while he was messing with her. Just general calmness, and while Asia was vocal that she wasn't happy to be messed with, she was calm too. Night and day from the place that diagnosed her with FD and held her down with the force of a linebacker just to look in her eyes and ears! :rolleyes::mad:

He asked me if I would like to be present for all the tests! That's a new one. I said yes, and he and the tech did it all right there so I could look at and pet Asia and comfort her. This was how my old vet that came to the house did it and it's just way less stressful for Asia that way.

He was very impressed with her, especially being 21, he said usually they have trouble getting weight on seniors (probably seniors that are fed prescription low protein diets, but I kept that to myself). Her coat was great, muscle tone good, he manipulated all of her legs and said nothing too bad going on.

He said her cloudy eyes and changing eye color is nuclear sclerosis as opposed to cataracts which is what my home vet diagnosed her with.

Had blood drawn for a "senior panel" and he uses IDEXX so this includes the SDMA. He made a good case for why an ultrasound was a good idea, and I agreed with the value of it, but I asked if it would change anything at the end of the day for how I cared for her and he agreed it probably would not. He did say the test that points to pancreatitis was elevated in the last set of labs, I discovered that on my own because the last vet sure didn't make mention of it to me, but he saw it too and brought it up before I did. So the u/s is on hold for now. Will revisit after the labs.

He spent a good long time studying my SS, a tiny version on my cell phone. He said he didn't like the 50s on there, I said me neither. He said he would never give a full dose on an 87, and I reminded him that it is a published protocol and so far it's working pretty well. But overall I think he was happy with it and said he couldn't think of anything to add and that it looked pretty good. :p

He got a urine sample, which is something that has never been done in front of me. He and the tech did a great job of distracting Asia and petting her head energetically and while I can't go so far as to say she wasn't bothered, she certainly wasn't bothered very much at all. Far cry from the ER that did one on her and I read in their notes later "several pokes, traumatic".

He said he can draw me up some cerenia if I ever need to take her in a car and I can inject it. Yay! No pill! He was able to get in her mouth just long enough to pick off a cap of hardened plaque, he is only the second person to get in Asia's mouth (somewhat) successfully, the other bring my long time house call vet (who got fear peed on by Asia when she did it). :oops: We are going to see how the blood work goes, but he said even though they do dentals there, the way to go at her age and with her risks is board certified oral surgeon/anesthesiologist. He recommended one and it's one I had found as the top contender.

He did a BP at my request and said it was a good idea. He said it was normal, I think 120? Is what he said, I didn't write it down, but I will request his notes. It was normal. Yay!

So for the arthritis, not exactly was I was hoping for, but not a lost cause either. He said he hasn't seen much success with Adequan and other NSAIDs, supplements, etc. He thinks they are a slippery slope and can cause more problems than they are worth with bowel side effects and all that stuff. I'm on the same page with him there, that's why I don't really give Asia anything that isn't direly needed, like insulin, or like antibiotics for an infection. He liked the idea of acupuncture but said it would be good to address pain. He wasn't a fan of the bupe, he said you have to increase the dose over time as they build tolerance to opioids and that's another slippery slope. He said he likes gabapentin. I recall reading about that somewhere on here, and from memory I think it caused dementia like symptoms? I could be way off on that. he said he doesn't have any reason to believe transdermal preps of bupe or gabapentin work, but he was going to do some research on it since it's that or injections for us.

Practice is full of special needs looking kitties that are adoptable. I saw two very strange ones that were bony and totally muscle wasted, but they both had big old pot bellies, one was nearly dragging on the floor. I really wanted to ask what they were feeding those cats, something that can make them fat but they can't build muscle with?! Maybe it's some weird condition. Very curious.

@Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) I liked this vet, very thorough, kind and gentle. Won't give you too much trouble about the FD stuff, seemed more curious than put off, but my initial consult with him: he doses Lantus once a day, doesn't believe in prescribing Levemir, and wanted to do sliding scale doses. Nobody's perfect. He's also very on the west side, like if he wasn't on the ground floor, you'd have a clear view of the Hudson. I can pm you his info if you're interested.
Hmmmm.....I’ve used gabapentin in two arthritic seniors and it didn’t do a thing. I used bupe...a very low maintenance dose....in one for three years and he never needed it increased.

I still disagree about putting much stock in Antechs pancreatitis test and I do agree with you that an u/s right now doesn’t really accomplish much.

But I’m glad you liked him and he was good with Asia. Nice to see her in green!
 
Hmmmm.....I’ve used gabapentin in two arthritic seniors and it didn’t do a thing. I used bupe...a very low maintenance dose....in one for three years and he never needed it increased.

I still disagree about putting much stock in Antechs pancreatitis test and I do agree with you that an u/s right now doesn’t really accomplish much.

But I’m glad you liked him and he was good with Asia. Nice to see her in green!
Maybe I can change his mind, or at least ask for a trial with the bupe. He says he likes it for short term use and not for long term. It appealed to me mostly because she has had it before for bad UTI and pain. A) I know it works for her pain B) I know she tolerates it wellon a much higher dose than the one I would be giving every day

I saw that PSL LIPA and looked it up, he cited more than just that test to point to potential pancreas issues, I forget which one/ones.

She's in green, and it looks nice, but it's a struggle all day today. She's had so many carbs to stay out of the shark party. If she were going to surf and I let her, it would be in the 50s or lower. :facepalm:
 
I saw that PSL LIPA and looked it up, he cited more than just that test to point to potential pancreas issues, I forget which one/ones.
Was it amylase and lipase although her amylase isn’t high and there isn’t a separate number for lipase. I’d be interested to know what he’s talking about...maybe some of the white blood cells but I don’t know of any vet who would dx pancreatitis just based on those.

It will also be interesting to see how she does when she gets another cycle away from those early shots.
 
Night and day from the place that diagnosed her with FD and held her down with the force of a linebacker just to look in her eyes and ears!

OMG, I had a traumatic experience like that when I was at the chalet and took Quintus in for a check at a local vet. My vet's practice are all gentle, cuddle, distract, don't constrain except if absolutely needed, etc. That other place where I went, she had the assistant scruff and maintain him strongly, when Quintus is actually the gentlest soul that will let you (or a vet) do pretty much anything to him without complaining. He only grumbles a bit now when drawing blood, because I think it hurts his elbows.

I asked if it would change anything at the end of the day for how I cared for her and he agreed it probably would not

That's the best question IMHO. I ask it often. For Quintus, a few weeks ago, knowing if we had a tumor or not was in that realm: would we treat him differently if we knew there was a tumor behind his pancreatitis, or not? Particularly given he was doing "way too well" for me to consider euthanizing him at that point.

And also, can vet visit cause stress GI stuff?

Well, stress can cause GI stuff. Is vet stress different from any other stress? :-)
 
Was it amylase and lipase although her amylase isn’t high and there isn’t a separate number for lipase. I’d be interested to know what he’s talking about...maybe some of the white blood cells but I don’t know of any vet who would dx pancreatitis just based on those.

It will also be interesting to see how she does when she gets another cycle away from those early shots.

I don't recall. He said something about albumin and I remember that one coming up because the name reminds me of egg whites :p But that could have been in relation to pancreatitis or CRF. I recorded a good chunk of our visit per Wendy's idea but he spent a lot of time looking at my phone SS/previous labs, so I had to stop it prior to showing him that. And he certainly didn't diagnose pancreatitis, I think he just thought it was worth investigating further and ordered the Spec fPL and it was another reasoning (besides kidneys) to consider doing an u/s in the future.

I didn't move the pm shot back 30 mins today, I left it as is. I might do it in the am or tomorrow pm, I'm still about 2 hours off schedule, but I too am interested in seeing what's really going on with the 1.75.
 
OMG, I had a traumatic experience like that when I was at the chalet and took Quintus in for a check at a local vet. My vet's practice are all gentle, cuddle, distract, don't constrain except if absolutely needed, etc. That other place where I went, she had the assistant scruff and maintain him strongly, when Quintus is actually the gentlest soul that will let you (or a vet) do pretty much anything to him without complaining. He only grumbles a bit now when drawing blood, because I think it hurts his elbows.

Yeah, they can be the best diagnosticians in the world, but if they don't treat my cat with care, I'm not interested in going back and I'm less likely to trust everything after that. My expectations for a regular vet is an average level of competency and handling my cats with respect to them and me. If I needed a really expert opinion on something extraordinary, I'd see a specialist anyhow. Yes, Asia is much the same, very tolerant and patient. I don't think, as a generalization, many cats suffer toddlers and tiny humans, but Asia is great with them. She will remove herself from a situation if bothered, but won't lash out to show her irritation (only to the civvie, and only if Toki takes the button pushing a little too far) :joyful:

That's the best question IMHO. I ask it often. For Quintus, a few weeks ago, knowing if we had a tumor or not was in that realm: would we treat him differently if we knew there was a tumor behind his pancreatitis, or not? Particularly given he was doing "way too well" for me to consider euthanizing him at that point.

Well, stress can cause GI stuff. Is vet stress different from any other stress? :)

Exactly, why put them through the additional stress for what? A recommendation for a prescription diet?

The stess poo is a new one for me and I figured as much, but it's still a new experience. I guess she's had a pretty plush life not to have much to stress poo over before. Asia has never gone to a vet when she was otherwise relatively healthy, there was always something more critical going on when I've had to physically take her somewhere to be seen. We had a vet that came to our home for checkups and minor things and that never particularly stressed her out.
 
I feel like 18-20% might be something worth trying
Weruva is very good at publishing the numbers for their food. Here is the pouches with carb count (and other info).

http://weruva.com/catsitk-pouches-nutrition.php
I use Chick Magnet (15.8%)

Another way is to take the lid off the can then place it back on the can, invert the can and squeeze the gravy out. I squeeze it out into a small container and the measure it out from that. It can be messy but I have gotten better at it with practice :joyful:.
 
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