IGF-1 TEST- waiting for results

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Mom2Maverick said:
If you get any info from Chris, I'd love to see it. My vet emailed them weeks ago, but I haven't heard anything.
I'm wanting to do the Cabergoline as well.
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I'm also waiting to hear the results of the trial. So if you hear something, please let us know.
 
Jadi & Tiffany said:
Tiffany is on Day 40 of Cabergoline and it has been a miracle drug for us. She has gone from 16u to 7u since starting and decreasing insulin every few days. Most importantly, she has her swag back. She is playful, runs through the house and behaves more like herself every day. She has been drinking less water, urinating less, her appetite is good and she is a very purry, happy girl. I have been communicating with Nat to check on Marvin's progress and he seems to be getting more and more of his old cat life back too. I know these kitties still have Acro, but I feel like it has bought us some quality time. My vet has been absolutely blown away with her progress. I am thankful to this board, Wendy and Paul, and Nat who trail blazed with the Cabergoline.
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I'm only hearing postive news about Cabergoline thus far! I'm going to e-mail Chris today to get some information to provide my vet.
Also, does anyone here know how often I should feed Malachai? My vet prefers I only feed him 12 hours apart since he isn't regulated andI'm trying to keep his numbers down throughout the day. Since everyone's numbers seem to be coming down with the use of Cabergoline, are you feeding smaller meals throughout the day?
 
Smaller meals throughout the day are better, many of us use a timed pet feeder than can store 5 meals. To get an accurate BG#, he should not eat 2hrs before testing. Don't starve your kitty, he will eat less once he becomes regulated. Acro kitties want to eat a lot, a good analogy that Wendy said, they think they are growing teenagers.
 
Deena Traina said:
My vet prefers I only feed him 12 hours apart since he isn't regulated
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That's the thinking with some of the older in and out insulins like Vetsulin. With Lantus or Levemir it's fine to eat several small meals a day. Some people here have grazers and that's OK too. However, it is best to feed most of the carbs in the first part of the cycle, before nadir, when the insulin is stronger. Feeding later can shorter the insulin duration and give you higher preshots. If you must feed after nadir (or they'll chew your leg off :p) try zero carb snacks like baked/boiled chicken breast.
 
Bronx's dad said:
Bronx's appetite did decrease with the Cabergoline
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Maybe a little. She will not always eat her whole portion like she used to and I do try to give smaller snacks throughout the day. (i.e. tiki cat mousse, roast beef and chicken) Acro cats love their food and she does wake up ravenous. This time change is going to be a real bummer for me.:blackeye:
 
Also,
Does anyone here have Chris's email? I was given it the other day but can't seem to find it.
Thank you!
Wendy&Neko said:
That's the thinking with some of the older in and out insulins like Vetsulin. With Lantus or Levemir it's fine to eat several small meals a day. Some people here have grazers and that's OK too. However, it is best to feed most of the carbs in the first part of the cycle, before nadir, when the insulin is stronger. Feeding later can shorter the insulin duration and give you higher preshots. If you must feed after nadir (or they'll chew your leg off :p) try zero carb snacks like baked/boiled chicken breast.
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So if his Nadir is usually 12:30-1:30pm,
And I usually shoot at 7am &7pm, are you saying I could feed 1can at 7am, maybe 1 can at 10am and then one at 7pm and one at 10pm before bed??? Would this be ideal?
 
Jadi & Tiffany said:
Tiffany is on Day 40 of Cabergoline and it has been a miracle drug for us. She has gone from 16u to 7u since starting and decreasing insulin every few days. Most importantly, she has her swag back. She is playful, runs through the house and behaves more like herself every day. She has been drinking less water, urinating less, her appetite is good and she is a very purry, happy girl. I have been communicating with Nat to check on Marvin's progress and he seems to be getting more and more of his old cat life back too. I know these kitties still have Acro, but I feel like it has bought us some quality time. My vet has been absolutely blown away with her progress. I am thankful to this board, Wendy and Paul, and Nat who trail blazed with the Cabergoline.
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I received this from RVC (it wasn't Chris who replied though.)
I'm a little confused as to what she meant below,
"We have been using veterinary formulated cabergoline, either Kelactin or Galastop."
So am I not actually giving them Cabergoline? Do I need to prescribe one of the above? I'm so confused!
 
You want Cabergoline in liquid form. A compounding pharmacy has to do it & they can flavor it with chicken, fish or other flavors, just make sure they confirm there is no added sugar in the flavoring.
 
Bronx's dad said:
You want Cabergoline in liquid form. A compounding pharmacy has to do it & they can flavor it with chicken, fish or other flavors, just make sure they confirm there is no added sugar in the flavoring.
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Are most people putting flavor into the meds? Or is it just to be safe that they will eat it? Malachai will usually eat anything...even with meds in it
 
Deena Traina said:
So if his Nadir is usually 12:30-1:30pm,
And I usually shoot at 7am &7pm, are you saying I could feed 1can at 7am, maybe 1 can at 10am and then one at 7pm and one at 10pm before bed??? Would this be ideal?
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Feeding at preshot at at +3 would work. Just take the current amount you are feeding, and split it between the multiple meals. Without more early cycle data - it's hard to say if it's ideal. Some people will feed a meal just before onset, to cushion the drop, if there cat is one of those that likes to drop hard and fast.
 
Hi wendy,
Yes, I don't have much for early cycle data but if you look at what I've compiled over the last year of testing, Malachai is extremely predictable. He is high in the AM, slowly drops and hits his Nadir at +5 to +7 and then slowly starts going back up.
I've never had a BG test number surprise me. With that said, do you think those feeding times are a good plan? He's always so hungry 2hrs before feeding/shot time but I usually try to just give him a freeze dried treat or piece of chicken breast tomhold him over.
I'll do whatever you guys think is best, that's why I'm asking. Thanks :)
 
I get chickhen flavor for Marvin. I squirt it in his mouth directly, that way I know if got the full dose. He is good with that, haven't had much issues, took a little bit to get him used to it. He knows he gets feed right after so he puts up with it. His appetite may have gone down at first, but it's back. I think his lack of appetite was more related to the diabetes being unregulated than the meds in his case. He was really doing badly, now it's amazing. His coat is back to normal and shining, his bad attitude is back....lol.... he isn't lying on his side all the time including when he ate, he sits now while eating. Like Jadi said it's made a huge difference for him and for me too.
 
Jadi & Tiffany said:
I get Cabergoline from Diamond Back Drugs in Scottsdale, AZ http://www.diamondbackdrugs.com/. 60 day supply with shipping is $95. My vet has never had a cat with Acro and took us on because I could not go the expensive specialist route any longer. She was open to everything that I have learned on this board and has read everything from RVC on the Cabergoline trial. She now defers to my friends on the board when we are unsure of dosing.
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Hi,
I just called Diamondbavk and hey quoted me $150 for a 30 day supply I'm wondering how much Cabergoline you give Tiffany and it's strength. I didn't see her weight (Malachai weighs 13.5lbs) but I'm trying to figure out why theynquoyed me so much more?
Jadi & Tiffany said:
Maybe a little. She will not always eat her whole portion like she used to and I do try to give smaller snacks throughout the day. (i.e. tiki cat mousse, roast beef and chicken) Acro cats love their food and she does wake up ravenous. This time change is going to be a real bummer for me.:blackeye:
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That is weird. My vet is the one who called it in...do they have different pricing for vet offices? I give Tiff 0.25 MG/ML of a compounded Cabergoline with chicken flavor. (Tiff's weight is about the same.)
 
Deena Traina said:
Hi,
I just called Diamondbavk and hey quoted me $150 for a 30 day supply I'm wondering how much Cabergoline you give Tiffany and it's strength. I didn't see her weight (Malachai weighs 13.5lbs) but I'm trying to figure out why theynquoyed me so much more?
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This is my quote.
He would get 0.8mg per day.

I can't believe I did this but I miscalculated his dose. So I'm hoping it will be significantly less expensive.
At 10mcg/kg he would get 0.084 mg daily or 84.5 mcg daily.
A misplaced decimal point is a large error and I'm a nurse!
The vet is supposed to arrange the prescription tomorrow.
 

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Jadi & Tiffany said:
That is weird. My vet is the one who called it in...do they have different pricing for vet offices? I give Tiff 0.25 MG/ML of a compounded Cabergoline with chicken flavor. (Tiff's weight is about the same.)
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Also, is Cabergoline given daily? I feel lien I read that some were giving it every other dayCan I give it with his food in the AM?
Jadi & Tiffany said:
That is weird. My vet is the one who called it in...do they have different pricing for vet offices? I give Tiff 0.25 MG/ML of a compounded Cabergoline with chicken flavor. (Tiff's weight is about the same.)
Click to expand...
i
Jadi & Tiffany said:
I get Cabergoline from Diamond Back Drugs in Scottsdale, AZ http://www.diamondbackdrugs.com/. 60 day supply with shipping is $95. My vet has never had a cat with Acro and took us on because I could not go the expensive specialist route any longer. She was open to everything that I have learned on this board and has read everything from RVC on the Cabergoline trial. She now defers to my friends on the board when we are unsure of dosing.
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So they want Malachai on .6 per day which is a lot more than your .25 a day. I wonder if my vet calculated it right since you said Tiffany is about the same weight as Malachai??
I did want to clarify though, are you getting a 60 day supply for $95 or a 30 day supply? I'm not finding it anywhere cheaper than $150 for 30days so if you're spending $95 for a 60days that's fantastic!!!!
 
Jadi & Tiffany said:
Yes $95 for 60 days, (15 ml) but I am using less. It is working at .25 and Tiff is 13.5 pounds.
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I wonder why such a difference. Gizmo is also around 13.5 lbs and is getting 0.6ml. His bottle is 20ml for $90. So I guess the price range is pretty close, but the dose is drastically different. Maybe the strength of how it is compounded is different? Makes me wonder if I have him on to much. I know the South American study was only dosed every other day.
 
Yeah I'm totally confused now....
I think they were going to give me a 30ML bottle and I was supposed to dose .6
How long does the medication last? I heard it was only good for 36 days. Is that right?
I'm wondering if I could start giving him less and if he needs more just, just raise the dose?
 
Deena Traina said:
Yeah I'm totally confused now....
I think they were going to give me a 30ML bottle and I was supposed to dose .6
How long does the medication last? I heard it was only good for 36 days. Is that right?
I'm wondering if I could start giving him less and if he needs more just, just raise the dose?
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I've also heard that it lasts only about a month, but the pharmacy we get ours from told my husband they could make more than 1 month at a time. So I'm not sure. We didn't check into it because we wanted to see if it would work for Gizmo first. My vet actually prescribed a range for the dose (0.3ml to 0.7ml). We did the calculations based on his weight and came up with 0.6ml. I'm just looking at Gizmo's prescription, it says it it good for 1 year.

@Marvin's Mom - Nat
Just curious .... how much does Marvin weigh and what is his dose?
 
Yeah I hoenstly just don't understand what the difference between 15 ML 20 ML and 30ML is?
Shouldn't we all be he getting the same ML size bottle and just be giving different doses?
My vet has never prescribed this so I'm not even sure what what I should be asking for?
 
Deena Traina said:
Yeah I hoenstly just don't understand what the difference between 15 ML 20 ML and 30ML is?
Shouldn't we all be he getting the same ML size bottle and just be giving different doses?
My vet has never prescribed this so I'm not even sure what what I should be asking for?
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I'm guessing (really just a complete guess) that the difference is because it it based on weight and each of us would need a different amount for a month supply based on the cat's weight. But what doesn't make sense is all 3 cats weight pretty close to the same, but are all different amounts. :confused:

I was pretty much on my own with my vet as well. I just sent the email from RVC to my vet and he prescribed the cabergoline based on the info in the email. That is why I am still a bit confused/worried about the dose. Just want to make sure it is correct.
 
Chubba said:
But what doesn't make sense is all 3 cats weight pretty close to the same, but are all different amounts. :confused:
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Is the concentration the same?.....I don't know anything about that particular drug, but like with some drugs, you could get 250mgs per ml or 500mgs per ml
 
Chris & China said:
Is the concentration the same?.....I don't know anything about that particular drug, but like with some drugs, you could get 250mgs per ml or 500mgs per ml
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That's the only explanation that I can come up with. Gizmo's is 100 micrograms per milliliter (I believe, I don't have the bottle beside me anymore, but I'm pretty sure). Based on his weight (6 kilograms) and the dose of 10 micrograms per kilogram, he would get 60 micrograms. So 0.6ml based on how his cabergoline is compounded.
 
Deena Traina said:
I think they were going to give me a 30ML bottle and I was supposed to dose .6
How long does the medication last? I heard it was only good for 36 days. Is that right?
I'm wondering if I could start giving him less and if he needs more just, just raise the dose?
Click to expand...
We have no way of measuring if he "needs more". I would stick with the standard recommendation of 10 micrograms per kilogram of cat. If you have a 6 kg cat like Gizmo is, that 30 ML bottle will last you for 50 days (50 x 0.6ml = 30ml). How much does Malachai weigh?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
We have no way of measuring if he "needs more". I would stick with the standard recommendation of 10 micrograms per kilogram of cat. If you have a 6 kg cat like Gizmo is, that 30 ML bottle will last you for 50 days (50 x 0.6ml = 30ml). How much does Malachai weigh?
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Wendy,
Malachai also weighs 13.5lbs like Gizmo. But I wouldn't want a 30ML bottle then if it only last 30 days, right?
 
Depends on the concentration of cabergoline. If it's 100 micrograms per millileter, then a 20 ML would be better - leaving a bit of room for spills.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Depends on the concentration of cabergoline. If it's 100 micrograms per millileter, then a 20 ML would be better - leaving a bit of room for spills.
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@Wendy&Neko
I did not question our dose until now... my vet is the one who called the pharmacy and prescribed the .25 ML dose. It has been working and we have been ecstatic. However, her BG's have spiked up this morning into the 300's and I am freaking out. I did just start a new bottle 2 days ago and worried that they could have compounded it differently. (or possibly something else is going on with Tiff. She does not seem to be in pain.) I have had company this week, but I plan to give my vet a call tomorrow about the dosing. Hoping Tiff's BG's will go back down today!!!! UGH.

Tiff is 13.5 pounds, so what would be the dose? .6 ML?
 
@Jadi & Tiffany - Please start your own post on this question. We don't want to hijack this one, and this thread is already too long. One observation though, you haven't tested the last two nights, I can only guess what happened then.
 
Jadi & Tiffany said:
@Wendy&Neko
I did not question our dose until now... my vet is the one who called the pharmacy and prescribed the .25 ML dose. It has been working and we have been ecstatic. However, her BG's have spiked up this morning into the 300's and I am freaking out. I did just start a new bottle 2 days ago and worried that they could have compounded it differently. (or possibly something else is going on with Tiff. She does not seem to be in pain.) I have had company this week, but I plan to give my vet a call tomorrow about the dosing. Hoping Tiff's BG's will go back down today!!!! UGH.

Tiff is 13.5 pounds, so what would be the dose? .6 ML?
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Hopefully it is just stress from your company. Is it possible that she got into some contraband food? Hope she comes back down for you! :bighug:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
@Jadi & Tiffany - Please start your own post on this question. We don't want to hijack this one, and this thread is already too long. One observation though, you haven't tested the last two nights, I can only guess what happened then.[/Q
Wendy&Neko said:
@Jadi & Tiffany - Please start your own post on this question. We don't want to hijack this one, and this thread is already too long. One observation though, you haven't tested the last two nights, I can only guess what happened then.
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Sorry, I felt like these other Acrocat owners who are figuring out the dosing may want to be in the loop. I will chat with my vet tomorrow. Thank you,
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For what it's worth, I don't think it's a cabergoline dosing question. I think you missed a low last night and she's bouncing.
 
Mom2Maverick said:
If you get any info from Chris, I'd love to see it. My vet emailed them weeks ago, but I haven't heard anything.
I'm wanting to do the Cabergoline as well.
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I sent an e-mail to the e-mail provided above and received an e-mail right away but it wasn't from chris. If you would like, I can send it to you directly? That e-mail was enough for my vet to give it a try....
 
Hi everyone,
@Wendy&Neko I found a pharmacy in CA that can make Cabergoline but wants to make it oil based so they can add the flavoring and it's also supposed to extend the shelf life. Is that OKAY?
Is anyone else here using oil based?
 
I never used cabergoline - too late for Neko. But I have her lots of other compounded products that were oil based. Should be fine.
 
Jadi & Tiffany said:
Yes $95 for 60 days, (15 ml) but I am using less. It is working at .25 and Tiff is 13.5 pounds.
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Is your Cabergoline Oil based? I found a place that said they could do it that way as it would extend the shelf life and they could also add flavoring that way. I just want to make sure that's safe. Thanks!
 
I just received this from the RVC below. I just want to confirm that everyone here is in fact compounding the Cabergoline (and not kelactin /gelastop) and that they are seeing results…

" I am afraid we don’t have any experience with compounding cabergoline…Do you have access to the original veterinary formulation – Kelactin or Galastop? There might be a human drug otherwise. In general – for any kind of medication – compounded drugs are not 100% reliable and that’s why we do not recommend those. But obviously – if there is no other choice – you could try that."
 
Deena Traina said:
I just received this from the RVC below. I just want to confirm that everyone here is in fact compounding the Cabergoline (and not kelactin /gelastop) and that they are seeing results…

" I am afraid we don’t have any experience with compounding cabergoline…Do you have access to the original veterinary formulation – Kelactin or Galastop? There might be a human drug otherwise. In general – for any kind of medication – compounded drugs are not 100% reliable and that’s why we do not recommend those. But obviously – if there is no other choice – you could try that."
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Chris had mentioned those to me, they are the manufacturers, and here in Canada we don't have them, the are European companies I think. You may have them in the states but I doubt it. Your pharmacist may know.
 
Bronx's dad said:
Started on 3/10, doubled the dose on 4/6 (which is now what most kitties start with) & then started weeing him off last week in April for SRT 1st week in May. Kitties should not go off Cabergoline abruptly according to Chris from RVC. His #s were getting better towards the end.
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Can I ask what Bronx's weight was when he started the Cabergoline? I saw that you were on .4 and then went to .8 in roughly 3 weeks.
Did you see much improvement with his numbers I n the short time he was on it? It didn't look like his numbers dropped much.
I haven't been able to test Malachai mid day much (I will next week), but he seemed to have a good reaction to the Medication the first few days and then I've had some higher mid-day tests than I'd like recently. I'm gonna gather about another weeks worth of data but I may increase.
Either or, just curious what his weight was and if you felt the Cabergoline was working?
 
Deena Traina said:
Can I ask what Bronx's weight was when he started the Cabergoline? I saw that you were on .4 and then went to .8 in roughly 3 weeks.
Did you see much improvement with his numbers I n the short time he was on it? It didn't look like his numbers dropped much.
I haven't been able to test Malachai mid day much (I will next week), but he seemed to have a good reaction to the Medication the first few days and then I've had some higher mid-day tests than I'd like recently. I'm gonna gather about another weeks worth of data but I may increase.
Either or, just curious what his weight was and if you felt the Cabergoline was working?
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He was about 17-18lbs at that time. It did seem to start working towards the end but he was going in for SRT so I took him off. The small study in S. America showed it can take a few months to see benefits.
 
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