18 Oct | Girlie | AMPS 590; PMPS 178; +2=158; +3=106; +5=97

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Girlie's mom

Member Since 2017
Condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...high-black-dose-question.185517/#post-2059887

Still solid black despite dose increase last night and new cartridge of insulin yesterday morning; also using new (and tested) vial of test strips. :banghead: Some poo overnight. :)

Missed her AM wee, but will try to get another ketone test today; yesterday's was negative

Last night:
PMPS 632 +2= 608 +4= 500 +9 = 596 +11 = 590

Does anyone use a blood ketone monitor? That would be easier than catching a wee, I think! :-)
 
Darrah --
The last time Girlie had a run of black numbers was at the end of August. Was there anything other than increasing the dose back up to 0.75u that you can think of that contributed to the earlier run of high numbers? While the Flixotide shouldn't have a huge effect on numbers, it's still a steroid and some cats may be effected by an inhaled steroid.


The current numbers may simply be that Girlie can't sustain the current dose. Some kitties' numbers go up and down whether it's because of something like constipation or the stage of the moon (seriously!).

FWIW, I was reading up on the Zydax. While it's primarily used with dogs, it is used off-label in cats. The dosing is generally once a week for 4 weeks. I don't know if you're going to see much improvement in Girlie's arthritis the way your vet is administering it.

@Sienne and Gabby (GA) : I just transferred your post here so it would be in today's post and I wouldn't have two posts running concurrently and confuse everybody.

Yes, you're right: end of August when she also had Zydax but wasn't constipated - does that rule out the constipation factor? Also, with that insulin cartridge, I did everything that you could do wrong when drawing insulin; not sure whether that was a factor for the high run of blacks there, but started and new insulin cartridge and increased the dose, and she came down.

The only things that happened after 10/10 were:
  • 6 Oct: started using insulin ruler to measure dose on 1/2 unit BD 0.3 syringes: clear from that that just eyeballing the dose based on syringe lines resulted in very different doses per syringe compared to insulin ruler
  • Vet checkup 10 Oct: blood and urine draw and Zydax injection; her last blood draw on 21 Aug didn't change her numbers at all: stayed in blues
  • Constipation: Microlax enema at home (easy and no adverse reaction after - just lots of poo w/no straining or pukas)
  • BCS reduction to 0.1 on pm of 10/10 and AM of 11 Oct (panicked at being away all day after the 83 on 10/10 and signs from her that she wanted to dive down); she was already at 504 on 10/10 for her PMPS, though. Previously, she came down pretty quickly after a BCS and even a NS. Could the depot have drained from just those two reductions?
  • Test results: only big thing was the increase in creatinine to 290 (was 190 end of July). Will do another check on this next month. Haven't entered all results in Lab section of SS yet; will do soon.

Zydax: Started in 2013 for arthritis; originally got 1x shot/week for four weeks; last year switched to 1x/month to see if that would maintain her better. @Bron and Sheba used Cartrophen (as did Wendy and Neko, I think?), which is also Pentosan (like Zydax), but they had no adverse BG reactions. I can try Zydax again next month to see the reaction, or I can ask the vet about trying Cartrophen instead? In Australia, there are meds that you can get in the US that we can't here, and vice versa. Meloxicam is another example: I believe we use a different concentration here specifically for cats and that's why we don't have the black box warning that you get in the US. However, I stopped the Meloxicam a while ago due to her kidney issues.

Flixotide: I've been using this all along, so I don't know whether this can figure in?

If it's the stage of the moon, or that she wants a set of pearls to go with her new black dress, Girlie is going to get a stern talking to!
 
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Hope you start to see some movement soon.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Good luck with the litter box lurk.

I'm ordering George's Aloe Vera Juice now! I increased her Miralax a bit to see if that helps re: poo. These high numbers don't help there, though...sigh...

Very hard to type right now as she's got her head on my left arm and on my lap at computer. Love it, though! I'll have to put her cat bed back up on the puter as in her pic so she can be near me, but I can type! :)

It's a gorgeous day: not sure why she's not in her usual place on the verandah. She doesn't seem to be feeling terrific, though; can't blame her with these numbers.
 
Fingers crossed she doesn't get backed up again.

Hope it's not to hot for you, were expecting our first autumn rain here, we need it desperately. Spent the day making sure drains weren't blocked by debris so we don't get any flooding, with the way the weather has been, it wouldn't surprise me if it stayed dry:rolleyes:
 
Fingers crossed she doesn't get backed up again.

Hope it's not to hot for you, were expecting our first autumn rain here, we need it desperately. Spent the day making sure drains weren't blocked by debris so we don't get any flooding, with the way the weather has been, it wouldn't surprise me if it stayed dry:rolleyes:

I love rain! The weather here has been hot, then cool: confused. We've had a really dry winter; no rain for months, which is not good. I lived in Berlin for years ('90 - '94) but, very unfortunately, never made it to Spain. I hope I can get there the next time I go to Europe. :)
 
What's going on, Girlie? I hope she gets sorted.

Please don't take this as anything more than an observation (because I'm new to this and have no experience and barely know what I'm doing), but the last time she was in the sea of black, the 1 unit dose seemed to right the ship. Maybe that will be the magic number again for awhile and your next dose increase will do the trick?

As far as stalking her litter box goes, I've seen somewhere far down one of my many google feline diabetes rabbit holes, little square papers that have the same reaction as ketostix, but instead you sprinkle them atop the litter (so you don't have to catch them midstream). I would think you still have to know when they go so you can read the results in the appropriate time window. Perhaps that's something to look in to? I can try to find it again if you would like.
 
I lived in Berlin for years ('90 - '94) but, very unfortunately, never made it to Spain. I hope I can get there the next time I go to Europe
Avoid our summer especially if you want to visit the south, sight seeing in 40deg heat is no fun. Spring and autumn are great though I prefer spring as usually everything is a lot greener, and the countryside is full of wildflowers and swallows.

If you find yourself in our neck of the woods, we can have a fdmb meet up :)
 
With Lantus it may take another couple cycles to see what the .75u dose will really do for Girlie. Looks like you some momentum in the right direction at least.


The colour today is yellow - we will even take a yellow today!
 
268 @+5 (a further drop of 56 points in an hour), so that's a 257 point drop in three hours.

She's not unduly hungry or looking for food, but I'm keeping a close eye on her.
 
268 @+5 (a further drop of 56 points in an hour), so that's a 257 point drop in three hours.

She's not unduly hungry or looking for food, but I'm keeping a close eye on her.
Must be the day for drops ... Gizmo dropped 148 points in 3 hours this morning and 109 points in 2 hours this pm. Though I must say, Girlie's drops have his beat! Glad she came down some for you.
 
Must be the day for drops ... Gizmo dropped 148 points in 3 hours this morning and 109 points in 2 hours this pm. Though I must say, Girlie's drops have his beat! Glad she came down some for you.
Yikes! Gizmo! Still, it's great to see blue numbers for him again.

Girlie historically takes deep dives, but it's now +6, so I don't want her to keep sliding down too far, too quickly, and then bounce again. Next test in 9 minutes, so we'll see if she's decided to try to level out a bit or just drop at a more reasonable level...:nailbiting:
 
Yikes! Gizmo! Still, it's great to see blue numbers for him again.

Girlie historically takes deep dives, but it's now +6, so I don't want her to keep sliding down too far, too quickly, and then bounce again. Next test in 9 minutes, so we'll see if she's decided to try to level out a bit or just drop at a more reasonable level...:nailbiting:
Fingers crossed!
 
Even though this is only a 49 point drop, I'm not sure whether it's safe for me to leave her for a few hours right now. Any thoughts?
 
Her nadirs are usually around the +6 or +7 mark so you're probably safe, but the higher dose is setting in and it's a new vial. These 2 variables are hard to say where Girlie is going on this cycle.
 
Give her some low carb food and leave some in the dish to encourage the surf and to help stop the drop. She may bounce big tonight.

Thanks, I'll do that, and only stay at work for as short a time as possible. Is there a PMPS number that should make me hesitate to give another 0.75 Units? She could well decide that the 0.75 is more than she bargained for, even with all those endless days of high black numbers.
 
Thanks, I'll do that, and only stay at work for as short a time as possible. Is there a PMPS number that should make me hesitate to give another 0.75 Units? She could well decide that the 0.75 is more than she bargained for, even with all those endless days of high black numbers.
Post closer to shot time and see where she is.

Get a test before you go out the door to see if you need to give a higher carb food or not.
 
AMPS: 583 +2= 526
+4=424
+5= 268 1 tsp MC 13
+6=209 1 tsp HC 22
+8=149 1 tsp HC 22
+10=167 left 2 tsps HC 22
+11= 162

She dropped a LOT today, even though I tried to stall her dive with HC food from +6 on so I could run in to work quickly. I'm happy to see so many colours, but it's a bit disconcerting in one day!

I'm a bit anxious about the 0.75 at PM (cycle 3) as she's gone down all day despite the HC food. I have lots of strips and supplies and can monitor all night, but I've just got this feeling that she might continue to dive down as she hasn't risen at all today on her own since she started her dive at +4.

I'm just wondering whether it'll be safe for me to shoot 0.75 with a day like this and still coming down at +11. Any thoughts?
 
I would shoot 0.75 units. 0.5 wasn't doing much for her. Not sure why you gave her HC late in the cycle. She is still in plenty safe numbers.

Thanks, Wendy. I left some HC at +8 because I had to leave, and the MC and HC I gave her earlier had no affect: she just continued going determinedly down. I'll give her the 0.75 and monitor closely.

Should I try to stall with low MC (12) if she continues to dive, do you think, or just see how low she goes?
 
I was looking back at her SS: her biggest dive, I think, was from AMPS 545 to 76 at +4, and on 27 July she went from AMPS 470 to 65 @+7, despite attempts to stall with food.

Tonight will be interesting! I've got my PJs ready for the party. :-)
 
:)

My Gizmo is the same way. He will creep up and I just keep increasing until he decides "ok, I get it" and tumbles down. I have to go up to get him back down to good numbers (just went up 1/8th dose this morning). Usually it is due to pancreatitis but I think this last time was all related to the food.

Hope Girlie just slides down to safe and surfs for you.
 
:)

My Gizmo is the same way. He will creep up and I just keep increasing until he decides "ok, I get it" and tumbles down. I have to go up to get him back down to good numbers (just went up 1/8th dose this morning). Usually it is due to pancreatitis but I think this last time was all related to the food.

Hope Girlie just slides down to safe and surfs for you.

I'm glad I gave her the .075 as Wendy suggested: the blue numbers so far are good, and she's stopped the headlong dive to the bottom of the ocean (so far!). Pancreatitis must be so tough to deal with: I really feel for you there. I assume you're sorted out your food issues? Have you found something that will work well for Gizmo?
 
Might have spoken too soon there:
+2 = 158;
+3= 106 (52 point drop).

Problem is, she's just not very hungry tonight; she ate a lot during the day and isn't keen on eating much now at all. I don't want to have a situation later when she's dropping and she doesn't feel like eating. What do you do when that happens? Or maybe Gizmo is a good eater.

Hmmm...what should I do? Wait til +4 and see where she is or try to get her to eat some more now, either LC or MC? :confused: I am way too tired to be able to make this decision!

During the day today, MC and HC had no effect on her: she just kept going down, down, down - even with HC 22 food.
 
I assume you're sorted out your food issues? Have you found something that will work well for Gizmo?
I was trying a certain food one.last.time. I think it makes his tummy upset. It is only 4% carb but it causes his numbers to rise (well, I thought it did, now I know for sure). I hadnt given it in over a month so it was a good test. It will go into the pile to go to the shelter. I am using Weruva Fowl Ball and various Soulistic foods. It is very difficult with both FD and Pancreatitis AND ckd (must be low phosphorus). Fowl Ball isn't very high in calories or I would just feed it but so far so good with the mixture I create.
 
Try just s little MC gravy. See if you can get her to surf. Gravy hopefully won't fill her up.

I just tried some gravy, and she liked that. For some reason, it's really hard to separate the food from the gravy! I think we have less gravy here in Oz - Bron mentioned that. Is there a secret to just getting the gravy out? I've tried everything I could think of...
 
Another trick if you are using canned (fancy feast?) is to use the lid to squeeze the gravy out. Remove lid and then put it back on the can and squeeze the gavy out into another container them use a spoon to portion it.
 
I was trying a certain food one.last.time. I think it makes his tummy upset. It is only 4% carb but it causes his numbers to rise (well, I thought it did, now I know for sure). I hadnt given it in over a month so it was a good test. It will go into the pile to go to the shelter. I am using Weruva Fowl Ball and various Soulistic foods. It is very difficult with both FD and Pancreatitis (must be low phosphorus). Fowl Ball isn't very high in calories or I would just feed it but so far so good with the mixture I create.

Mine like Cats in the Kitchen as well, and although the phosphorous is at a good level, the protein is too high. Girlie's phosphate levels are good, still, although her creatinine is up. It's tough to find the right balance! Be glad you're in the US: you have more varieties to choose from, at least. Choices are pretty limited here in Oz. :-)
 
Another trick if you are using canned (fancy feast?) is to use the lid to squeeze the gravy out. Remove lid and then put it back on the can and squeeze the gavy out into another container them use a spoon to portion it.

Superb idea!

I can get the pouches here; I didn't even think of them, of course, because they are higher carb. The store closest to me is out of stock, but I'll look around while I wait for the next test coming up. It'll be easy to just get the gravy out of the CIK food, for sure!

Thanks, Christie! :bighug:

Oops: the only store that has them is out of stock. When they're back in, I'll definitely stock up, though.
 
the protein is too high
?? For what?

The Chick Magnet has great gravy and it is easy to get it out. Just tear off a small corner and squeeze it out. The meat will stay in the pouch.

Another trick I use is MC/HC gravy gets a special bowl. It is a small metal bowl and I make a big deal with the clink of the spoon in it and "talk" it up to him and act like it is s big deal. Now all I have to do is clink the spoon on the metal bowl and he is there waiting for his "treat" :p even if he isn't hungry.
 
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