? Prozinc to Lantus

[Case]

Hi everyone hope you're all have a lovely Thursday so far! My cat Sookie is currently on Prozinc and I recently starting thinking about switching her to a longer acting insulin like lantus. Well it just so happens I got lucky and had 5 solostar pens given to me from a diabetic human that had a bunch extra.

I've been reading the stickys and wow! It's much different from what I'm used to with Prozinc and I'm a little scared to make the switch because it seems much more strict. From what I've read, I think I'd have to use the SLGS approach because of my schedule and also since I do feed LC dry food. So of course I have questions I hope you all could help me with.

1. Its been just about 4 months since she was diagnosed, is it too soon to be considering switching insulin?

2. With SLGS, do I have to test more than I currently am and what times are key for evaluating a dose?

3. I'm using a pet meter do I have to switch to a human meter or are there different guidelines for pet meters such as a no shoot number?

4. I know I need to be consistent with injection times but how much time do I have if say I'm a little late or need to stall without messing up the schedule?

5. In the sticky it says

• Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.

So if that happens how much would you reduce usually? I know you're supposed to shoot lower numbers but not sure how low.

6. Would we be starting over at 1 unit?

I apologize for all the questions, I just really want to make sure I understand how lantus works before I make a decision. Honestly despite my fears, it seems like it may work better for Sookie because she's been in high numbers for awhile. The prozinc only brings her down for a few hours if we're lucky and I'm thinking maybe lantus will keep her lower longer. Thank you for bearing with me, this is so much to figure out!!!

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

Welcome to L&L Land! I will answer the questions I am able to.


2. With SLGS, you test for sure at both AMPS and PMPS. If you are able to, try and get another test mid-cycle, but understand each cat nadirs at different times. ECID Then once a week, you run a curve for 12 hours at 2 hour intervals.

3. With a pet meter, the take action number is 68, not 50 with the human meter.

4. With Lantus, you need to try and stick to a 12/12 schedule. If you are 15 minutes late one cycle, that's fine. If it's an hour, then you need to work back to the original shoot time in 15 minutes intervals. If you shoot early, it acts as an increase. If you shoot late, it acts as a decrease.

5. With people who are new here, we recommend you skip if the number is below 200. Once you gather more data, then that point would be lowered to 150, 120, etc. However, we do recommend you post for advice when you see a number below 200 or the no-shoot number you have in place. If you see a number below 68, the cat automatically earns a reduction for the next dose. We do it in 0.25 unit increments.

I hope that gives you some information and the others will stop by and answer the other questions. [/QUOTE]

 

[saltycat]

Sounds like you've been doing some homework. Don't apologize about questions, I had a million when I got here too. Jack is also a prozinc convert. I switched around the 2 month mark. He was at 6.5u and still stuck in the reds which was a big factor in the switch. It is generally recommended to give an insulin 6 months before switching, but not a rule.

Your testing looks pretty good, especially when you can get mid-day tests in. A midcycle test during the day and a before bed test are important. Any extra tests are additional info and can help in seeing your cats patterns. I'm a bit of a test-a-holic and work from home most days, so I tend to test a lot.

You can use either meter. I would say the majority here use human meters. It is cheaper, supplies are easier to get if you run low and many of us think in human meter numbers not pet meter. Completely your decision/preference here.

The recommendation is 15 min per cycle, or up to 30min per day when shifting the cycle or giving a late shot. I'll be honest and have done a little more then that on rare occasions. Keep in mind early shots act like a small increase, late shots tend to act like a small decrease in insulin.

5 & 6 I'll let someone else answer as I am not as familiar with them.

I'm very happy that I switched over and after getting used to dosing based on the lowest point in the cycle versus the amps/pmps number it was much easier. Lantus should give a smoother curve to the day since it is more like a timed release insulin compared to the prozinc. Read up on the depot, it affects the next few cycles unlike prozinc.

Keep asking away!

 

[Case]

Thank you both so much for the responses! I'm starting to understand it a little better now. I'm definitely a research type of person and like to know as much as possible and this truly helps.

As far as testing goes, I work during the week but can definitely run curves on the weekend. Sometimes my fiance stops home for lunch and will grab an occasional test during the week which really helps. Right now I only increase doses on the weekend while I'm home which is why I think SLGS will be a good start since doses are held for up to a week.

I'm very happy that I switched over and after getting used to dosing based on the lowest point in the cycle versus the amps/pmps number it was much easier. Lantus should give a smoother curve to the day since it is more like a timed release insulin compared to the prozinc. Read up on the depot, it affects the next few cycles unlike prozinc.

Keep asking away!

I'm working to understand the depot but I think it makes sense. My biggest issue with Prozinc is that her preshots have not come down at all. She'll have a nice curve and go into blues at nadir and constantly shoot right back up and then bounce the next few cycles. I'm hoping lantus might smooth that out a bit like you said.

3. With a pet meter, the take action number is 68, not 50 with the human meter.

4. With Lantus, you need to try and stick to a 12/12 schedule. If you are 15 minutes late one cycle, that's fine. If it's an hour, then you need to work back to the original shoot time in 15 minutes intervals. If you shoot early, it acts as an increase. If you shoot late, it acts as a decrease.

5. With people who are new here, we recommend you skip if the number is below 200. Once you gather more data, then that point would be lowered to 150, 120, etc. However, we do recommend you post for advice when you see a number below 200 or the no-shoot number you have in place. If you see a number below 68, the cat automatically earns a reduction for the next dose. We do it in 0.25 unit increments.

Thank you Mandy, that makes sense. I was worried about being a little late here and there with shots without throwing the schedule off. Also was slightly worried about shooting lower numbers but I'd be happy to post here for advice if and hopefully when that happens.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate you all taking the time to answer my many questions. Its been on my mind a lot and I'm driving my family (that know nothing about it) crazy talking about it! It's nice to have this community that understands.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Hello and welcome. I think most other questions have been answered but dose, we suggest starting at the same dose as on Prozinc. I would start on a weekend, maybe Friday night, when you can monitor a little more closely. Sometimes you see action right away, and sometimes you have to wait for the depot to fill before you see much happening. The first while on Lantus will be spent trying to figure out when the onset and nadir are. There are typical times, but ECID, my girl liked being different. Hopefully you'll get longer duration on Lantus.

We love to help here, so keep reading and asking questions. Welcome to the crazy cat people club.

 

[Case]

Thank you for the warm welcome and the info Wendy! I'm glad to know we don't totally have to start the dose over when we switch. Most people who know me would say I'm already a part of that club

 

[Chubba (GA)]

Just wanted to add that with SLGS, the take action number on a pet meter is 90 (same as the human meter). The take action number for TR is 68 on a pet meter.

Welcome!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome to Lantus and Lev land!

I may have missed if someone answered your question about the flexibility with shot time. Generally, you have about a 30 min window with shot time. The issue with trying to stay on schedule with Lantus is that a late shot acts like a dose reduction and an early shot acts like a dose increase due to the way the depot works.

It you think SLGS is a better fit, that's fine. You are generally testing enough for TR although you will need to routinely test during the PM cycles but that is the case with SLGS, as well.

 

[Case]

Just wanted to add that with SLGS, the take action number on a pet meter is 90 (same as the human meter). The take action number for TR is 68 on a pet meter.

Welcome!

Thank you, I didn't know that it would be the same on either meter.

Welcome to Lantus and Lev land!

I may have missed if someone answered your question about the flexibility with shot time. Generally, you have about a 30 min window with shot time. The issue with trying to stay on schedule with Lantus is that a late shot acts like a dose reduction and an early shot acts like a dose increase due to the way the depot works.

It you think SLGS is a better fit, that's fine. You are generally testing enough for TR although you will need to routinely test during the PM cycles but that is the case with SLGS, as well.

I do try to stay on schedule but I'm relieved that there's a little wiggle room because some days are harder than others to be right on time.

TR would have been my first choice because it seems that it has a good success rate. I didn't realize I had enough data, I was thinking I didn't test enough and that was one of the reasons I wasn't going to use it. I've been considering not using the Young Again dry food once this bag runs out as well, so maybe I can do TR. Now I have some more research and thinking to do. Thank you for letting me know!

 

[StephG]

We switched from ProZinc too. Chuck was very bouncy and after +6 shot right up. I test a lot but have been able to test a bit less with lantus because it's slower and Chuck is more predicable (even if only a tiny bit) than he was on prozinc. I was pretty nervous switching. We switched at the same dose (8 units).
He's doing fantastic on lantus compared to prozinc. We are very happy we switched.
I hope you see great results too!

 

[Case]

Thank you Steph! Glad Chuck is doing better with lantus. I am really nervous switching but if it helps her it will absolutely be worth it.