Help with lantus syringe

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rawia

rawia

Member Since 2017
good day all,

I have been using lantus pen to inject my cat directly from the pen, the vet increse the dose from 1 unit to 2 units but it seems to high and i can not inject the second shoot because BGis low and i was afraid, it seems that i have to increas the 1 unit slowly but i can not do this with pen and to pull the insulin from pen i read that i will need only U100 3/10 cc syring which not availabe in my county and will take a time if ordered online and i need to get her BG below 300 really.

What about lantus vial, what syringe to use with it if i can buy it from local pharmacy??

Any advice please help

Thank you
 
rawia said:
good day all,

I have been using lantus pen to inject my cat directly from the pen, the vet increse the dose from 1 unit to 2 units but it seems to high and i can not inject the second shoot because BGis low and i was afraid, it seems that i have to increas the 1 unit slowly but i can not do this with pen and to pull the insulin from pen i read that i will need only U100 3/10 cc syring which not availabe in my county and will take a time if ordered online and i need to get her BG below 300 really.

What about lantus vial, what syringe to use with it if i can buy it from local pharmacy??

Any advice please help

Thank you
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You would use the same U100 syringe for the Lantus vial. If Lantus is sold in your country for human use the pharmacy should also sell the proper syringes for it. Ask if they have U100 syringes in 0.3 cc/mL capacity with half unit marks. These might be used for young children.
 
Your instincts are on target. A dose increase of 1.0u is huge. The dosing methods we use recommend dose changes in 0.25u increments. The Lantus pens will not dispense in that small of an amount -- they only allow you to make changes in 1.0u amounts. Like Kris suggested, we use an insulin syringes for giving injections.
 
Thank you

I will try to get this syringe, could you please take a look at MEME SS and tell me what do you think.

I took a look at some SS and noticed that some members injects 2 U even with numbers below 200.

It is her time for second shoot now and BG is 470 , i inject 1 u for now till i get the syringe.

This is high number,and thought 2 unit at least untill i find the syringe but want an expert openion
 
It is much easier to use the U100 syringes to draw up from pens as the needles to attach to the pen are very awkward to use.

Also, we recommend only changing the dose in increments of .25 of a unit. That way you don't miss the best dose. Going from 1 unit to 2 units is a big jump.

Is your SS up to date?

The goal is to get a dose that you can shoot twice a day. It looks like 1 unit wasn't enough and 2 is too much.. Lantus likes consistency and you have been changing up the dose from the daytime to the night time. When kitty goes lower than they are used to going, the numbers bounce up ( that is what you have been seeing in the AM) Leave the dose the same and let the depot build. Right now the depot is not stable . How about if you try 1.25 and hold that dose for at least 3 days or 6 cycles and lets see what that dose can do? Only drop the dose down IF kitty goes below 68 on the AT 2 meter.
 
Ok hope that local farmacy have that syringe. Will update the sheet today and post again


Thank you
 
Ok one more question please


Should i use keton strip test thad designed for pets or can use same one for human
 
rawia said:
Ok one more question please


Should i use keton strip test thad designed for pets or can use same one for human
Click to expand...

The human ones work just fine. I think that is what most of us use. What I have found that works for me to get a sample is a ladle that I can easily slip under kitties bum for a moment when he is in the litter box and then can dip the strip in that. You don't want to dip it into the litter because the litter itself can affect the reading.
 
Just back from pharmacy. The only syringe they have is U-100 0,5 ml

Guess will be hard to mesure .25 unit with it. I can handle the .5

Shall igo with 1.5 unit starting PSAM untill my syringe that i ordered online arrive!!
 
Yeah I got some of them too. I only use them when we are on whole or half doses. Someone here probably will have a way that you could measure a little smaller dose with that. Looking at your ss, the 1.5u dose might be fine, for both your AM and PM, remember consistency is key. I would definitely find out what others say first though because I don't have near as much experience and many of those here who can advice better. Which protocol are you following?
 
My cat just diagnosed a month ago with early deabites and i know that the earlier is diangosed the earlier my cat can go into remission but my vet recommend at the first only 1 unit once a day then 2 unit once aday then 2 unit morning and 1 unit after 12 hours.

This does not make sense to me , then i started my own research and find the TR protocol which i want to go through. But until i get the syringe arrived i have to make her BG comes down in away or another. It has been a month and her BG going up and down in high numbers.
 
It's best to get the syringes with the half dose markings. If not I would say just eye ball it the best you can.

There is somewhere on this forum ( and I can't put my fingers on it right now, a paper ruler that use can print and use. Hopefully someone will find it for you and you can use that in the interim. I use calipers even though my syringes have 1/2 unit marks.
 
Unfortunately vets aren't the best when it comes to dosing. Also, with everything I have read on Lantus, your vet doesn't understand the insulin very well either since it is important to keep depot insulin doses consistent. I would go with 1.5u twice a day for the consistency unless someone else more experienced says otherwise. It can take several cycles to really start seeing the overall benefits of a dose (2 cycles a day) and to know if you need to change your dose or not. One thing you will learn with this sugar dance and I have been told many times, is that our kitties are in control of this dance. You have to learn patience because you can not make this process go faster then our kitties want it to go. Keep up with doing what your doing by the home testing, which is great that your doing btw, and keep gathering that data. The more data, the easier it is for others to help you with dosing advice. I will tag some of those who have been helping me with getting going in Lantus. :)

@MrWorfMen's Mom @Kris & Teasel @Chris & China
 
To answer you question, since you don't have the syringes with the 1/2 unit markings just do the best you can with eyeballing it and if it is easier to go with 1.5 you will need to monitor closely.
 
rawia said:
Ok i will try to make 1.25 as best as i can. Could this small increas make change with her high BG!
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Yes, the small increases really can make a difference. You also don't want to increase too fast because you can skip your perfect dose. We skipped 2.25 in the begin (from my blonde moment) and we have came back down to it and have now been here for awhile and showing good progress with it.
 
Just a word of caution. The paper ruler is for BD Ultra Fine syringes. If you are using another brand, the ruler may be off to some degree. The other option would be to get a used syringe and draw up coloured water to where you perceive 1.5u and/or 1.25u to be on the barrel. You can then use that syringe as a sample for drawing up the insulin. While the dose may not be precisely accurate, it will be more consistent and that is more important than being exact.
 
Hi all,

i just try my best to eyeball 1.25 on the U-100 syringe ( the half marked will arrive this week). numbers seems good or the dose is so high?? i have no other options and i ca not skip any shoot because the numbers will go high like crazy so i took the risk and monitored her closely , today she dropped to 53 but no hypo as it rise fast again, shall i keep the dose or back to 1 U but i know it will not work anymore??


one more questions, what kind of Relion meter most of you are using, confirm /micro or ultima???
 
53 is too low using the Alpha Trak meter. 68 is the lowest you want with the pet meter and at 68 you should start intervening with a bit o Low carb food to bump the BG up and retest to make sure BG is holding or rising. Repeat as needed until the BG is holding above 68 for at least 3 tests without any food influence.

You could back up to 1.0u and if you find that isn't quite enough, draw up the 1.25u and then let out one, two or three extra tiny drops to reduce the dose slightly more for a dose somewhere between 1 and 1.25u.

Most folks use either the Confirm or Micro. Don't recall seeing anyone using the Ultima.
 
Yes i gave her high carb food immediately and some syrup and it rised after 15 minutes to 81 and now after 3 hours it is 150.

I will reduce few drops at the next shoot . Hope my syringes arrive quickly to be more accurate. I think a little bit more than 1 U will be fine.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Just a word of caution. The paper ruler is for BD Ultra Fine syringes. If you are using another brand, the ruler may be off to some degree. The other option would be to get a used syringe and draw up coloured water to where you perceive 1.5u and/or 1.25u to be on the barrel. You can then use that syringe as a sample for drawing up the insulin. While the dose may not be precisely accurate, it will be more consistent and that is more important than being exact.
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Just to make it cleare is BD syringe different from the others. Because i ordered the BD ultra fine with half unit marked as it is from UK and will arrive to me faster. Is it different in measurement for example if i draw .5 unit with BD !!
 
rawia said:
Just to make it cleare is BD syringe different from the others. Because i ordered the BD ultra fine with half unit marked as it is from UK and will arrive to me faster. Is it different in measurement for example if i draw .5 unit with BD !!
Click to expand...
No, it means the same dose. However, with half unit marks on the syringe it's easier and more accurate to get a 0.5 u dose level. When you have no half unit marks you're guessing more about where the 0.5 u level is.
 
Hi I have this photos they may help you they are of a BD syringe
LRM_EXPORT_20170918_111559.jpg
LRM_EXPORT_20170918_111322.jpg
 
I read in other fourm different protocol for TR, they inject doses based on preshoot less or more. But what i know and learned here that lantus worked better with same doses.

In other hand sometimes the pre shoot number force us to make a reduction in the shoot. Is that ok or i have to shoot same dose everytime. Because i do not want to skip doses regardless the number cause that will not work with my cat , it will make her BG rise again in big numbers. Is it ok to make reduction based on pre shoot number even if it is not as same as previous dose!!!
 
I believe the TR protocol you looked at was using a different insulin...probably PZI (not ProZinc). It is an "in and out" insulin rather than a depot insulin and can be used on a sliding scale based on pre-shots although nadir must also be taken into consideration as it is with Lantus. With Lantus, because there is a deposit of insulin retained from shot to shot that builds up over the course of a few days, changing doses frequently makes it impossible to see what any given dose is doing for the cat because the size of the stored deposit keeps changing.
 
Yes they have scale for shooting and for each insulin there is different scale.

From lantus to all other kind.

They do not shoot every 12 hours , they do it every 10 hours. It is new protocol for me and seems hard to do but they have many remisdion stories post it on the fourm.

I think that the goal in any protocol is to keep cats in normal tange in order to reach remission.
 
rawia said:
In other hand sometimes the pre shoot number force us to make a reduction in the shoot. Is that ok or i have to shoot same dose everytime. Because i do not want to skip doses regardless the number cause that will not work with my cat , it will make her BG rise again in big numbers. Is it ok to make reduction based on pre shoot number even if it is not as same as previous dose!!!
Click to expand...

We have a saying here...."Shoot low to stay low".....that means that most of us doing TR will shoot anything over 50 (on a human meter, 68 on a pet meter) once we have enough data to understand how our cats respond to both food and insulin.

Lantus works best when it doesn't have to "pull down" high numbers. I know it seems like if you shot 1U yesterday when the Preshot was 300 and it dropped them to 150, that if you shot that same 1U into a 150 today, it'd drop them to zero, but it really doesn't work that way!!

Usually, shooting a lower Pre-shot results in a nice flat curve, with only a little movement....Look at China's spreadsheet and you'll see lots of examples of shooting low and even though I always shoot the same amount, her numbers stay nice and steady.

Of course at first, if you shoot a lower number than you're comfortable with, you should have someone here watching out for you. We suggest if you get a Pre-shot under 150 that you stall, don't feed and post for help......Test again in 20-30 minutes to see if they're coming up on their own without any food.

We have a policy here that if someone shoots low for the first time, whoever responds and offers to help will stay online as long as necessary to make sure you have help....even if it means staying up all night with you!!......or we'll find someone else with experience to take over. We won't leave you alone!!
 
Oh that would be nice, yesterday i have number below 150 but i feed her and wait.

Will do as you said next time. Thank you all for your help and effort.
 
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