Food and Cost advice

[JGeorge0890]

hey guys,

Right now I am feeding my diabetic cat Royal Canin Glycobalance Dry food which from the vet is pretty costly. I am looking for suggestions as to cheaper alternatives that could be put there. Between his insulin, syringes, food and doctor visits this is becoming way too costly and we've already accumulated a large balance on our care credit card.

Any suggestions on food or how to keep cost down in caring for a diabetic cat would be helpful. I saw the same food on chewy but you need a prescription from a vet which I'm not sure how to get the prescription to them.. I am more looking for things I can find in store without a prescription.

Side note: he has been diagnosed for about 2 months, we tried lantus and his sugar was still all over the place, now we're using Vetsilin and he's peeing all over the house.. not sure if you have any advice on this.

Thanks,
Jen.

 

[AlphaCat]

Hi Jen!
Good luck with the Vetsulin! We're on that too and have been making steady progress (minus a few setbacks unrelated to insulin).
The food.
This is a big one here as you go about reading the forum. Prescription food for diabetics is usually very high in carbs, and leads to using a lot of insulin. The problem really seems that vet's don't have enough experience treating diabetic cats so they are listening to the food people to tell them how to treat a cat, and that's just bad.

Just like a human diabetic, if you have a diabetic cat you need to watch carbs. Many people here use Friskies or Fancy Feast precisely because having a sick cat is expensive and the food is cheap. Not all the flavors are low carb. You can find your prescription food and then compare it to Friskies Pate which are low carb to see the difference.

However, before you make any food changes... Do you home test for glucose?
If your insulin is prescribed at a higher amount because of the high carb food you've been prescribed then giving a high insulin dose with low carb food could throw your kitty into a hypoglycemic episode, and unfortunately if you're not prepared, can mean death. I don't mean to scare, but this is serious stuff. So if your not home testing we need to start there.
The people on this board will help, including me, through this learning curve you're about to go through with food, diabetic care, and learning new routines.

So are you home testing?
(I'm going to run off and get you that food chart link.)

 

[AlphaCat]

Here's the chart, it's sortable if you like.

Dr. Lisa's food chart

I stay with Friskies or Fancy Feast that is under 6 carbs. I took a screen shot of the flavors I chose to buy and then went to the store and the screen shot picture wa easier to pull up than going through the whole list while standing in the cat isle. You'll also want to take into consideration your cat's weight and serving size when you're looking at cost of cat food. (which should still be cheaper than the prescription food. Also, you can take the uneaten prescription food back for a refund once you do make the switch.) Fabby is 11 pounds but I'd like her to put on a little bit of weight, she's too skinny right now for her size. Friskies comes in 5.5 oz cans. If she eats 2 cans a day that will at least maintain her weight, but since I want her to gain I try to get her to eat 3 cans. They are just under $.50 each, so for $1.50 a day Fabby eats low carb Friskies. The Fancy Feast comes in 3 oz cans, and it would take 4 cans to feed Fabby each day. Each can is about $.80 so feeding her Fancy Feast each day would cost $3.20 over double the Friskies. So even though it might not be a huge jump in price from one brand to the next the ounces it comes in and how many ounces per serving matters when factoring the cost.

 

[JGeorge0890]

So are you home testing?
(I'm going to run off and get you that food chart link.)

We do have a home tester and do occasionally do a curve to monitor him. We don't test all the time because he was fighting us a lot and we felt it was very stressful for him.

We are currently doing 2 units twice a day and his sugar is still kind of up and down. We've seen some great numbers and some not so great numbers.

The vet has pretty much thrown his hands up and assumes he is getting into food around the house but there is no way he could be.

Thanks,
Jen.

 

[AlphaCat]

Oh and sorry to keep bombarding you with messages... but the peeing: that should go back to normal once you get the diabetes under control.
Fabby always did her out of the box peeing right outside of the actual litter box. So we cut up an old air mattress (for the heavy duty plastic) and put it under her box extending about a foot and a half out from under the box. I could take the plastic outside spray it with bleach and hose it down as needed. Mostly her pee (which was excessive in amount) was so diluted it doesn't smell like normal cat pee, this always seemed to be mostly water, making it easier to clean.
A week after getting her food changed and insulin started we haven't had an out of the box issue.

 

[JGeorge0890]

Oh and sorry to keep bombarding you with messages... but the peeing: that should go back to normal once you get the diabetes under control.

Haha no worries, I really appreciate your advice. Unfortunately our cat is doing it everywhere.. so we're just trying to keep it clean but it's hard to keep up with. This didn't start until a few weeks ago and we've been trying to get it under control but it's frustrating. I think I'm going to try switching his food and see how he responds. Maybe that's just the thing we need to get this under control.

 

[AlphaCat]

We do have a home tester and do occasionally do a curve to monitor him. We don't test all the time because he was fighting us a lot and we felt it was very stressful for him.

We are currently doing 2 units twice a day and his sugar is still kind of up and down. We've seen some great numbers and some not so great numbers.

The vet has pretty much thrown his hands up and assumes he is getting into food around the house but there is no way he could be.

Thanks,
Jen.

Okay, it's great you have a meter and know how to use it!
So, first thing first. Get him comfortable with the new process of testing regularly.
Some people started slower than I did, and you can too.
Have a testing spot. I chose a spot that is close to the feeding spot, and Fabby now correlates test = food.
Go to your spot, grab your cat, give cuddles and lots of pets. I've even used this time to brush her.
Take out your kit. (I keep treats in the kit, kit is now associated with treats!)
Then I rub the ear I'm going to use. I'm checking to make sure the ear is warm and if not warm it by rubbing. The blood comes easier if the ear is warm. Some use a warm rice sock, but I've never had to, but you can.
I tried the plunger thing the first week but found it easier on us both to just poke the ear with the lancet.
(If your kitty needs more time on the process just do the routine without the actual poking, he will get used to the sitting, rubbing, then treat, so when you add in the poke, kitty won't care because treat is coming.)
I've found when Fabby's glucose is higher she is more food aggressive, which means she is really ready for her poke treat. For a treat I use Fancy Feast one ingredient treats in salmon because they are no carb and individually wrapped so I can keep a few in the test kit itself.
So after three days of this routine 2-4 times a day add in your poke. If you get resistance at first don't give up, just be ready with that treat fast.
Doing it this way, Fabby had the routine down in 3 days. Then she started meeting me at the testing spot for her meal times. When I'm petting her before testing she drools waiting for her treat.

The way Vetsulin works is you test glucose, then feed, wait to make sure food stays down, then shoot insulin. Fabby will see a little drop in glucose in the first 2 hours because low carb food actually makes her glucose numbers go lower. Then between hours 6-8 Fabby's glucose is at it's lowest. Then by hour 12 we're back to the regular number her body keeps her at. I feed her 4 times a day because the food helps her regulate her sugar on her own better than the insulin dropping big. This is also why you really should be testing regularly before you switch to a low carb food. The food may give your kitty a drop on it's own, and then adding insulin at the 6-8 hour mark that may put your kitty's glucose too low, where you're at risk for hypo. Read through the forum a bit. When you get to the hypo threads they are always heartbreaking just because they are so stressful and life threatening, and just scary. The more experienced people here help ease that stress and walk the people through what to do. But if you can avoid that experience, please do.
Also, we use a spreadsheet to track glucose. Like the one you see in my signature. You can click on it and see how Fabby goes, and how the spreadsheet looks, and our experience. Setting up your spreadsheet will help the experienced folks here help you immediately if there is a problem.
I often ask the experienced folks to take a look at my spreadsheet every couple of weeks and offer suggestions over in the Vetsulin forum. They have been right on every time.

If your vet is uninformed about the food, and has basically given up, well... you will find help and great instruction here. However, after you get kitty used to testing, switch foods and then adjust the insulin so kitty can start to try to manage his own sugars better, you may want a good vet that's informed on treating diabetes as your regular vet, so if you need anything in an emergency you have someone you can trust. My first vet seemed informed, but way over charged and the level of care wasn't what I wanted. (I was pressured into leaving Fabby at the vet for a couple days, when we could have done the curve at home and gotten more reliable numbers.)

Back to testing... probably the biggest confidence builder on my end with testing was I watched several YouTube videos about how to test, and took all the notes of their procedure. For example, there is a better spot on the ear to test so it is less painful for the cat. The videos taught me where to poke, and most important that you cat can learn to be just fine with it. And Fabby is now...
so if you have more questions, ask! We've probably been there!

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

We do have a home tester and do occasionally do a curve to monitor him. We don't test all the time because he was fighting us a lot and we felt it was very stressful for him.

Please note that if you transition him to low carbs food his numbers can go down significantly and he may require a lower dose of insulin.
Shooting blindly 2 units dose is very risky - he can go Hypo, potentially fatal condition. HERE is list of items you 'll need to get to be able to deal with Hypo.

I strongly urge you to start testing him before each injection and shoot only if the number is safe enough to administer insulin. Random mid cycle tests will help you to catch his nadir, the lowest point and it is necessary data to base your dose on.

 

[JGeorge0890]

I strongly urge you to start testing him before each injection and shoot only if the number is safe enough to administer insulin. Random mid cycle tests will help you to catch his nadir, the lowest point and it is necessary data to base your dose on.

We only haven't been because of how aggressive he's been. He's so hungry he's hard to hold down to where it's a two person job. Which is another reason we stopped because my husband isn't always home to help me at feeding time..

We were testing him twice a day at first but he never got used to it and I assume that was because of how aggressively hungry he is.

If we switch foods we will do testing for the first couple days to see how he responds. I'm afraid to do 1 unit on the new food because of how high his sugar has been. It's typically around 580 anymore I don't want him to get too high the other way either..

This has been a real struggle for us and my husband and I both work so we can't put all of our time into it not that we don't want to.. we've seen our regular vet and a hospital vet and both kind of threw their hands up and suggested a specialist which we can't afford..

I don't want to sound like I'm not willing to put time and effort in but I am out of the house for 10 hours a day and can't be there to monitor him constantly..

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

We only haven't been because of how aggressive he's been. He's so hungry he's hard to hold down to where it's a two person job

I think you can try feeding him more - just make sure that he has not eaten anything 2 hours prior to injection or you'll be getting "food spike" BG reading.
Giving small treats right after the injection usually help a lot with making cats agreeable.

 

[AlphaCat]

I get your concerns. So much of this is overwhelming.
I personally resisted the spreadsheet set up in the beginning. I mean, in this day and age, there should be an app with all sorts of bells and whistles. I tried the apps, I tried to do it in a way that should have been more convenient for me... what I learned is the people here know their stuff... that excel spreadsheet is the best tracker out there, and I tried many, until I succumbed.
I bring this up to let you know how stubborn I am, to let you know how hard I had to try to get through the learning curve once you find this site. My stubbornness held me back, luckily not to the detriment of Fabby.

I am NOT saying you are stubborn. I am saying the learning curve is large. So now you have new strangers telling what more you *need* to do... just what you need with all you've got going on, right?

We do get it. We have been there. Here's where I give you big (((HUGS)))! Because you have been going this alone, and THIS is stressful and hard!

Here's a couple things I pick up on with what you are saying...
Kitty is on high carb food, which means insulin CANT do it's job because it must fight the food.
When larger doses of insulin is administered cats will start bouncing. Which means a large dose of insulin to combat high glucose means a big drop in numbers, but because of the big drop, it also goes right back up high. It's like a roller coaster. With Fabby a difference in Vetsulin of a quarter of a unit can cause her to bounce. When kitty is bouncing, you will not get insulin control, and you'll have food aggression, and the peeing problems. The answer is always get glucose under control and the things that are stressing you out will slowly ease away.
But you can't see if your cat is bouncing if you aren't testing.

Here are some of the key bits in Fabby's treatment I never would have known without home testing regularly:
one unit causes Fabby to bounce,
Low carb food by itself without insulin actually makes her glucose numbers lower,
Her nadir comes between hours 6-8 after insulin.
Higher glucose numbers equal more food aggressiveness.

The goal with insulin is to drop the nadir only slightly so the AMPS and PMPS numbers (morning pre-shot and evening pre-shot) slowly over time lower, and if you're one of the lucky ones, go into remission. Big drops at nadir cause high AMPS and PMPS numbers which is bouncing, and that won't resolve itself without being identifyed and making changes. Fabby's numbers when we started this whole journey were regularly 540. We started out on 1 unit 2x a day, and when I came for advice on our high numbers the people here told me to lower our dose... (remember I'm stubborn) so I just couldn't do it, I had more questions, and I didn't understand. Luckily, the experts giving the dosing advice are patient caring people. They got that way because I assume they had the same experience, or somewhere along the line had to learn similar lessons. Thank goodness for my personal experts, because if I hadn't listened to them and instead listened to my vet saying raise to 2 units we would be bouncing and frustrated still. Turns out Fabby's ideal dose is somewhere between .5 and .75 units. I am not the dosing expert, so I couldn't begin to give you advice there...
But I am a pretty good glucose tester, as we do it 4x a day.

If you're away from home 10 hours a day, then testing 2x a day is likely what can be accomplished. On your weekends try to get more tests in and maybe a curve until you get his glucose more stabilized. And of course don't do any changes when you're not around to be able to monitor him. High glucose is bad, but not as bad as too low glucose. High long term unregulated glucose means other problems start happening ( like the food aggression and the peeing, among others. Low glucose means death.

I know we're harping, but we're here in this forum because we care about cats, about their care, and about helping their humans on this difficult journey.
Hang in there. Read up on others experience and on the main page with all the info links, and of course testing videos! It will get better and easier, and we are here to help!

 

[JGeorge0890]

I think you can try feeding him more - just make sure that he has not eaten anything 2 hours prior to injection or you'll be getting "food spike" BG reading.
Giving small treats right after the injection usually help a lot with making cats agreeable.

We only feed him twice a day so he wouldn't have any food prior to the reading and have been giving more than the suggested amount based on his weight. We don't have treats because when I asked the vet if there was anything we could use to supplement because he's so hungry he kind of shrugged and said no.

If we switch his food we can do it on a day we're home with him and only do one unit, then we can do a curve and see how he does and go from there. It has just been hard to test constantly because of the different struggles we've had with this and our scheduling conflicts.

 

[AlphaCat]

Cats that are unregulated can't use their food as fuel. That's why despite eating more than recommended they are still ravenous. You could double the serving size and your cat wouldn't gain weight because he simply can't absorb the nutrients with glucose that high.
So giving him more food now won't hurt, especially if you aren't testing at the moment.
And your vet is right that treats and more food won't solve this issue, because it's the glucose causing this issue.
That said, when Fabby was food aggressive she felt better with a tummy full. So until you get him regulated feed him all he wants. Until you begin testing glucose, feed him all the time.

Because low carb food helps regulate glucose, once you begin regular testing and change to a low carb food do your after testing/before shot feeding, then since you'll be out of the house many people freeze cat food into cat food popcicles, the food will melt and once it does kitty gets a snack mid day without you having to actually be there for feeding.
Also, treats are fine, and while your kitty is food aggressive, he's also likely to be more food motivated. Use that to your advantage to get him into the routine you need for you. Try to get a low carb or one ingredient treat. So that way it's a treat you know he will continue to like once you do switch to low carb.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Fabby's mom has given you excellent advice! There are ways to help you help your kitty. It just requires a rethink on your part and a willingness to try doing things a bit differently.

 

[Tracey&Jones (GA)]

A timed feeder may work well for your work schedule and your kitty's needs. Kitty can get fed throughout the day - help stimulate his pancreas as well keep that food aggression down. Keeps him safe until you can get that testing routine down.

Some come with ice packs and some members actually add a bit of water and freeze the food into a ice cube.