How much food is enough?

[Kris10S]

So Oliver who is 17 lbs (last official weigh in) is now only eating about a can of food a day. We leave dry food out for him to graze on, but he hasn't been eating it. His numbers were looking better, but not good enough to where we see a difference in his social or playful behavior (improvement in litter box and excessive drinking). He seems alert and social before meal times, but after about 30 min of coaxing him to eat half a can of food at meal times it's like all his energy is gone. I spoke with the Vet today and we are upping his dose to 2 units twice a day to see if there is any improvement. I asked her if she thought something else could be going on and she said she thinks he is just tired and that his body is still adjusting to his new food and insulin.

Any thoughts?

 

[FurBabiesMama]

Hi. At first, I was having a very hard time getting my girls to eat much wet food. I was giving them half of a small can at meal time (for two cats!), and they never finished it. I started trying everything I could think of. I cooked chicken, shredded it and added a little on top of the food. That worked sometimes but not always. I tried a few different foods and found that they ate more of the Sheba Perfect Portions Pate Chicken than the others, followed by Fancy Feast Classic Chicken Feast. So, I settled on just those two kinds. I was also still letting them graze on Young Again Zero Mature. That is very nutrient dense so a little goes a long way. I also made chicken bone broth which, thank goodness, Mia loves (my other cat, Willow, will not touch it). I use it for a treat at test time, but I know it is good for her, and it may be coincidental, but it seemed that her eating improved after I started giving her that. Tomorrow, it will have been a week since I changed to all wet food (a few kibbles of Young Again are used as a treat at shot time when Mia is being irritable), and they are eating so much more now. We are up to about 5 of the small cans (2 Sheba Perfect Portions count as 1) per day.

I think the food challenges are one of the hardest part of this, but everyone seems to find something that works for their cat after a period of trial and error and worry.

 

[Kris10S]

Hi. At first, I was having a very hard time getting my girls to eat much wet food. I was giving them half of a small can at meal time (for two cats!), and they never finished it. I started trying everything I could think of. I cooked chicken, shredded it and added a little on top of the food. That worked sometimes but not always. I tried a few different foods and found that they ate more of the Sheba Perfect Portions Pate Chicken than the others, followed by Fancy Feast Classic Chicken Feast. So, I settled on just those two kinds. I was also still letting them graze on Young Again Zero Mature. That is very nutrient dense so a little goes a long way. I also made chicken bone broth which, thank goodness, Mia loves (my other cat, Willow, will not touch it). I use it for a treat at test time, but I know it is good for her, and it may be coincidental, but it seemed that her eating improved after I started giving her that. Tomorrow, it will have been a week since I changed to all wet food (a few kibbles of Young Again are used as a treat at shot time when Mia is being irritable), and they are eating so much more now. We are up to about 5 of the small cans (2 Sheba Perfect Portions count as 1) per day.

I think the food challenges are one of the hardest part of this, but everyone seems to find something that works for their cat after a period of trial and error and worry.

We haven't tried other wet food because for two weeks he does seem to like and eat it at meal times. I think part of it is getting used to eating a large portion in one sitting which is new for him. I know I could leave it out, but I don't like the idea of giving him his shot without knowing he has eaten enough which is why I take the time to coax him into eating more in the one sitting.

 

[FurBabiesMama]

We haven't tried other wet food because for two weeks he does seem to like and eat it at meal times. I think part of it is getting used to eating a large portion in one sitting which is new for him. I know I could leave it out, but I don't like the idea of giving him his shot without knowing he has eaten enough which is why I take the time to coax him into eating more in the one sitting.

I do leave the wet food out for my girls. Right now, I am giving them food 4 times a day - AM and PM shot times, mid-day and when I go to bed. (A lot of people here use auto-feeders or freeze food so they can leave it out in the morning for the whole day.) I take any remaining food up two hours before shot time. That works for getting a good BG test result pre-shot, and it also seems to get Mia hungry enough that she will eat a few bites at shot time. She does not usually eat much at shot time though. My vet said a couple of bites is plenty (unless the BG test result is low enough that there is concern over it dropping too low after the shot - you do not appear to be getting those low numbers yet, we are not either). Most of the time, neither of my cats eats a lot at one time. Sometimes, in the morning, they do, but not always. They like to eat a few bites at various times throughout the day/night.

Every cat is different, so it really is a matter of finding what works for your baby.

 

[Kris10S]

I do leave the wet food out for my girls. Right now, I am giving them food 4 times a day - AM and PM shot times, mid-day and when I go to bed. (A lot of people here use auto-feeders or freeze food so they can leave it out in the morning for the whole day.) I take any remaining food up two hours before shot time. That works for getting a good BG test result pre-shot, and it also seems to get Mia hungry enough that she will eat a few bites at shot time. She does not usually eat much at shot time though. My vet said a couple of bites is plenty (unless the BG test result is low enough that there is concern over it dropping too low after the shot - you do not appear to be getting those low numbers yet, we are not either). Most of the time, neither of my cats eats a lot at one time. Sometimes, in the morning, they do, but not always. They like to eat a few bites at various times throughout the day/night.

Every cat is different, so it really is a matter of finding what works for your baby.

Well that is good to know. I have looked into the feeders, but we haven't pulled the trigger on anything yet until we figure out what is working. Idk if he prefers the wet over the dry mid day yet so that is something I will need to figure out. Thanks for sharing what works for you as it does help ease my mind!

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Hi,
I base my cat's meals size on her caloric requirements: when she needed to gain ASAP I fed her 1.5 cans Friskies/24 h. Now she needs to loose a little and eats less than 5.5 oz can. Half can a day does not sound enough though.

Can you tell us more as to how exactly he doesn't eat? Does he smell the food and walks away? Have you noticed any lips licking? If yes it might be a sign of nausea and many cats refused to eat. Many won't eat when pancreatitis flares up. Was he ever tested for p-titis?

I wanted to point your attention to the fact that if he doesn't eat enough injecting 2U might be a risky proposition. Also it is better to increase by 0.25U, not half unit at a time so not to overshoot a good dose.

I find it strange that your vet didn't put more effort in ruling out other possible reasons for food refusal - it is always warning sign with cats.

Increasing the dose to 2 Units without having enough tests results collected/taken throughout the day and night and especially without prior to injection tests is odd and dangerous, in my humble opinion.

 

[Kris10S]

Hi,
I base my cat's meals size on her caloric requirements: when she needed to gain ASAP I fed her 1.5 cans Friskies/24 h. Now she needs to loose a little and eats less than 5.5 oz can. Half can a day does not sound enough though.

Can you tell us more as to how exactly he doesn't eat? Does he smell the food and walks away? Have you noticed any lips licking? If yes it might be a sign of nausea and many cats refused to eat. Many won't eat when pancreatitis flares up. Was he ever tested for p-titis?

I wanted to point your attention to the fact that if he doesn't eat enough injecting 2U might be a risky proposition. Also it is better to increase by 0.25U, not half unit at a time so not to overshoot a good dose.

I find it strange that your vet didn't put more effort in ruling out other possible reasons for food refusal - it is always warning sign with cats.

Increasing the dose to 2 Units without having enough tests results collected/taken throughout the day and night and especially without prior to injection tests is odd and dangerous, in my humble opinion.

He is eating just about a whole can a day of food (half at meal times/give or take a spoonful). We do need him to lose weight, but obviously still eat enough. He is eating, I just have to work with him. He will eat about half, and then I will scoop it back to the middle and then he eats more and I repeat the process. He isn't doing any lip licking except for after he finishes eating which is normal. He hasn't been tested for anything like pancreatitis because this just started happening over the weekend, but like I said he is eating it's just far less than what he was eating. She told me to continue to monitor him closely like I have been and if he absolutely won't eat to only give half a dose and contact her to bring him in. We JUST started all this and are on week 3 so I can see where he is probably adjusting to new food and the insulin right?

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

We JUST started all this and are on week 3 so I can see where he is probably adjusting to new food and the insulin right?

I certainly hope so! Some cats are true pickers when the food change is involved. THIS BLOG by Dr. Pierson contains some excellent tips on dry to raw transitioning - not your case I know but may be you can employ some tricks that she mentioned.

Not to alarm you but I think that I should to let you know that not eating well and staying in high-ish numbers calls for testing his urine for ketone development. It is easier done than it sounds - you buy urine ketone dip strips at any human pharmacy and dip in to his urine. Ketone levels above Trace Amount warrant vet visit to prevent ketoacidosis, potentially life threatening condition.Checking for ketones whilst you are looking for the optimal insulin dose will give you some peace of mind as this condition treated easier if caught early (and cheaper!).

 

[Kris10S]

I certainly hope so! Some cats are true pickers when the food change is involved. THIS BLOG by Dr. Pierson contains some excellent tips on dry to raw transitioning - not your case I know but may be you can employ some tricks that she mentioned.

Not to alarm you but I think that I should to let you know that not eating well and staying in high-ish numbers calls for testing his urine for ketone development. It is easier done than it sounds - you buy urine ketone dip strips at any human pharmacy and dip in to his urine. Ketone levels above Trace Amount warrant vet visit to prevent ketoacidosis, potentially life threatening condition.Checking for ketones whilst you are looking for the optimal insulin dose will give you some peace of mind as this condition treated easier if caught early (and cheaper!).

Thanks!

I think I will give it a couple more days and see what happens. I tend to over worry and don't want to rush judgement on anything. I explained in detail to the vet what last week and this weekend was like and feel she has made the right suggestions for me thus far. We will be home and can test him if he appears too out of it or something. It does look like after his insulin and eating that his number goes down like it's supposed to. We are also going to do our best to get multiple readings during one day over the weekend to see what a day or two looks like. I think a larger part of the issue is we are unable to leave his food out when we leave because the dog will eat it if it's on the ground and Oliver hasn't been wanting to jump up onto his table where his food bowl is. We are looking into a gate with a pet door so we can leave it on the ground and see if we notice a difference in the grazing again.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Sounds like a plan!

We are also going to do our best to get multiple readings during one day over the weekend to see what a day or two looks like.

Please be sure to test him BEFORE injecting to know that he is high enough to receive his dose. You vet might be out of the office/ closed for the night and if is to low to shoot she won;t be able to help. Giving even half dose at a number too low might b dangerous. Post for help if you find you self in such situation - someone will be along to help decide on the dose for most nights.
I cannot think of any solution re: dog raiding Oliver's meals but there are several members of the Forum who dealt successfully with the same issue - why not to post a separate question, another thread titled something like "How do you keep your dog out of your FD kitty's food?", you'll know better wording.
Best of luck to you and Oliver.

I tend to over worry

I knew we had something in common!

 

[FurBabiesMama]

I think a larger part of the issue is we are unable to leave his food out when we leave because the dog will eat it if it's on the ground and Oliver hasn't been wanting to jump up onto his table where his food bowl is

Poor baby. They have no energy when they are unregulated. I saw Mia jump down from the bed the other night and excitedly bat at a bug or something (that I could not even see), and it made me so happy. Baby steps...small victories.

There is a feeder that will only open for a specific pet. It is expensive (a little cheaper on Amazon), but I have seen a couple of people say it really helped when they had a situation like yours. I wish it could be programmed to open only for a specific pet AND only during specific times, but I have not found one like that yet.

 

[Kris10S]

Sounds like a plan!

Please be sure to test him BEFORE injecting to know that he is high enough to receive his dose. You vet might be out of the office/ closed for the night and if is to low to shoot she won;t be able to help. Giving even half dose at a number too low might b dangerous. Post for help if you find you self in such situation - someone will be along to help decide on the dose for most nights.
I cannot think of any solution re: dog raiding Oliver's meals but there are several members of the Forum who dealt successfully with the same issue - why not to post a separate question, another thread titled something like "How do you keep your dog out of your FD kitty's food?", you'll know better wording.
Best of luck to you and Oliver.

I knew we had something in common!

Yes, with the higher dose we will test before for sure to make sure it's not too low. I would think it's not going to be since it's been too high.

 

[Kris10S]

Poor baby. They have no energy when they are unregulated. I saw Mia jump down from the bed the other night and excitedly bat at a bug or something (that I could not even see), and it made me so happy. Baby steps...small victories.

There is a feeder that will only open for a specific pet. It is expensive (a little cheaper on Amazon), but I have seen a couple of people say it really helped when they had a situation like yours. I wish it could be programmed to open only for a specific pet AND only during specific times, but I have not found one like that yet.

I think I found a gate with a pet door that the dog wouldn't be able to get through so I think that will help in being able to leave the food down throughout the day and he won't have to jump up to eat something. I fear he wants to eat, but doesn't want to jump because when his food is on the floor he does graze it.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

I would think it's not going to be since it's been too high.

One can never be sure about that. Especially since he is not eating his dry but only wet and Low In Carbs (LC) his numbers might go down due only to this diet. There were recently several instances reported that LC diet brought the BG levels so low that no insulin was required at all!

 

[Kris10S]

One can never be sure about that. Especially since he is not eating his dry but only wet and Low In Carbs (LC) his numbers might go down due only to this diet. There were recently several instances reported that LC diet brought the BG levels so low that no insulin was required at all!

That is what I am hoping happens, but with the diet change he still isn't showing behavior improvements so who knows! I am trying to remain optimistic, but realistic at the same time. Being 7 months pregnant when all this started hasn't helped and I don't trust my husband to do things the "right" way just yet. I have been all over the place emotionally and I just want to see some signs of him going in the right direction, but I know it's a marathon and not a sprint so I need to be patient (so much easier said then done).

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Oh, wow! Congrats on your pregnancy! Try not to worry to much (I know, easier said than done, I know..) you are in the best place to help and to support you! I promise it gets much easier once your routine with testing and feeding is set.

I forgot to mention an important detail - the must do pre-shot BG tests have to be free of food influence. Otherwise you'll be shooting insulin at a food glucose, might be much higher than the real number, and that's dangerous. Take all the food out of sight 2 hours prior to your pre-shot time, test ans then inject - if the current number allows it.

 

[Kris10S]

Oh, wow! Congrats on your pregnancy! Try not to worry to much (I know, easier said than done, I know..) you are in the best place to help and to support you! I promise it gets much easier once your routine with testing and feeding is set.

I forgot to mention an important detail - the must do pre-shot BG tests have to be free of food influence. Otherwise you'll be shooting insulin at a food glucose, might be much higher than the real number, and that's dangerous. Take all the food out of sight 2 hours prior to your pre-shot time, test ans then inject - if the current number allows it.

Me not worrying is not going to happen, but I know I need to keep it in check for my little girl's sake. I do know about the food and it's usually do able in the evening before dinner because we get home in time, and not the morning as I don't know when/if he grazes overnight.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Me not worrying is not going to happen, but I know I need to keep it in check for my little girl's sake.