5 Aug | Girlie | AMPS 455; +2=617; +4=574; +7=466: Fur shot or food?

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Girlie's mom

Girlie's mom

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Condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-545-2-306-4-76-hc-or-lc.181699/#post-2013903

I don't know what Girlie is doing today (besides being too entertaining for words)... I could swear I didn't do a fur shot: she didn't like the needle this morning, and I rubbed her fur afterwards (as usual) and smelled, and didn't smell insulin. But wow - the numbers!

AMPS: 455;
+2= 617;
+3=596;
+4=574;
+7=466

If she's going down (albeit creeping down), is that proof that I didn't do a fur shot?

Also, could it be the food? This AM I gave her some ZiwiPeak Rabbit and Lamb (3 carb) and a little ProPlan Turkey and Giblets (7 carb) as I was wondering if the somewhat higher carb ProPlan would slow down the kind of drops I've been seeing in the AM over the last couple of cycles; I didn't want to resort to HC if I didn't have to.

I got the carb ratings from Dr Pierson's list. Although that's US canned food, it appears that the ProPlan cans are made in the US.

Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks so much! :)
 
I posted earlier on your last post and have copied and pasted it below as it refers to today's SS.

Hi Darrah, just looked at Girlies SS and I see you have written '? Fur shot this am or food related'. I assume you are referring to the high AMPS and even higher +2 and 3. Unless you know you did a fur shot....you can smell the insulin on the fur or feel the wetness.......I think Girlie is bouncing from the fast drop down to 76 yesterday morning.
She is a very bouncy cat because she has fast drops and in my experience, the only way to stop bouncing from fast drops is to test each hour from the beginning of the cycle (if she is going to drop that cycle) and feed her with high enough carb food to slow down the drop. It is trial and error and then try again.
When Sheba was doing what Girlie is doing, I spent a week or more testing hourly and feeding when needed to get her down safely into better numbers.
It takes time and can be frustrating but persevere. ..and don't be hard on yourself.:bighug:
ETA. I don't think it is the food raising the bsl this morning ...I think it is a bounce
 
Marvin's Mom - Nat said:
she normally clears a bounce quickly so you may see some activity this evening
Click to expand...
Hi Nat,
I don't think she's ever been inactive...I'm assuming an active cycle is one where numbers change a lot - where there's no flat, steady line - is that right?
Is a bounce "cleared" when they go into blue or green numbers? When I look at her chart, it seems to me like she's on some sort of crazy pogo stick...
 
Girlie's mom said:
I rubbed her fur afterwards (as usual)
Click to expand...

Be careful not to rub very hard....I know with a lot of shots, people think you should "rub" the area to help dissipate the medication, but with Lantus, what you end up doing is disrupting the depot that's supposed to be forming under the skin.

Lantus really does have a strong smell....if you don't get it all in, you should be able to smell it without touching her.....at first, I'd stick my nose into China's fur and sniff.....I couldn't help but think "I sure hope nobody walks in and catches me sniffing the cat".....LOL
 
Girlie's mom said:
When I look at her chart, it seems to me like she's on some sort of crazy pogo stick...
Click to expand...
cat1.gif
 
Girlie's mom said:
Hi Nat,
I don't think she's ever been inactive...I'm assuming an active cycle is one where numbers change a lot - where there's no flat, steady line - is that right?
Is a bounce "cleared" when they go into blue or green numbers? When I look at her chart, it seems to me like she's on some sort of crazy pogo stick...
Click to expand...
lol pogo stick is what you will see some people refer to kitties who like to bounce. When a bounce clears it goes back to somewhat more normal numbers usually a bit lower for that cat, so it doesn't always mean green or blue, some cats yes will DIVE to a blue or green fast.

I thought maybe she cleared it last night when she got the 13.9, but the morning number make me think either she didn't clear the bounce or maybe she had another low number during the night and the amps is a seperate bounce.... or kitty using pogo stick
 
Chris & China said:
Be careful not to rub very hard....I know with a lot of shots, people think you should "rub" the area to help dissipate the medication, but with Lantus, what you end up doing is disrupting the depot that's supposed to be forming under the skin.

Lantus really does have a strong smell....if you don't get it all in, you should be able to smell it without touching her.....at first, I'd stick my nose into China's fur and sniff.....I couldn't help but think "I sure hope nobody walks in and catches me sniffing the cat".....LOL
Click to expand...
Oh, ROFL!! :joyful: I'll keep that in mind re: the rubbing. Lantus really - well, I think it stinks! I'll just stick my nose down and smell her next time if I'm not sure. I'll be discreet, of course. :-)
 
Bron and Sheba said:
I posted earlier on your last post and have copied and pasted it below as it refers to today's SS.

Hi Darrah, just looked at Girlies SS and I see you have written '? Fur shot this am or food related'. I assume you are referring to the high AMPS and even higher +2 and 3. Unless you know you did a fur shot....you can smell the insulin on the fur or feel the wetness.......I think Girlie is bouncing from the fast drop down to 76 yesterday morning.
She is a very bouncy cat because she has fast drops and in my experience, the only way to stop bouncing from fast drops is to test each hour from the beginning of the cycle (if she is going to drop that cycle) and feed her with high enough carb food to slow down the drop. It is trial and error and then try again.
When Sheba was doing what Girlie is doing, I spent a week or more testing hourly and feeding when needed to get her down safely into better numbers.
It takes time and can be frustrating but persevere. ..and don't be hard on yourself.:bighug:
ETA. I don't think it is the food raising the bsl this morning ...I think it is a bounce
Click to expand...
Oh Bron, sorry I missed that on my post yesterday. Thank you for replying!
Well, I'm not going anywhere now, so I'll test as often as need be and feed to try to keep her on an even keel. That's why I gave her the ProPlan with 7 carbs this morning: 1/2 that and 1/2 ZiwiPeak (3 carbs) - I thought I could head off her +4 drop in its tracks. Little did I know she'd decide to climb the ladder the other way instead...sigh... Because she grazes, the LC doesn't seem to be enough to stop her beautiful dives.

Bron, I bought some chicken hearts (ick!)! I'm getting a bit tired of the canned foods and wondering whether the carb levels are right, etc. Girlie's never eaten raw food, though, and as an older lady, she's missing some teeth. What do I do with the chicken hearts - just present it to her raw, or do I cut it up into tiny pieces and see if she'll eat it? I don't think she'd go for it without it being chopped into tiny little pieces.

I also bought some butternut pumpkin. I'll have to go back through the posts to find out how I prepare that for her.

I loved your post with pics on the food you feed: it inspired me, but I'm not sure where to go with that. What do you think - might raw be a good alternative for Girlie, especially as she's contemplating chronic kidney disease? She's borderline right now, apparently; the vet thinks that that - and not the diabetes - is why she's still drinking and weeing so much still. I spent a lot of time looking at food charts last night, and feeding a diabetic a low phosphorous diet looks like an interesting challenge. She hasn't gotten the CDK diagnosis yet, but the vet thinks that she definitely has some level of renal failure, especially given her age (18 years).
 
Girlie's mom said:
Oh Bron, sorry I missed that on my post yesterday. Thank you for replying!
Well, I'm not going anywhere now, so I'll test as often as need be and feed to try to keep her on an even keel. That's why I gave her the ProPlan with 7 carbs this morning: 1/2 that and 1/2 ZiwiPeak (3 carbs) - I thought I could head off her +4 drop in its tracks. Little did I know she'd decide to climb the ladder the other way instead...sigh... Because she grazes, the LC doesn't seem to be enough to stop her beautiful dives.

Bron, I bought some chicken hearts (ick!)! I'm getting a bit tired of the canned foods and wondering whether the carb levels are right, etc. Girlie's never eaten raw food, though, and as an older lady, she's missing some teeth. What do I do with the chicken hearts - just present it to her raw, or do I cut it up into tiny pieces and see if she'll eat it? I don't think she'd go for it without it being chopped into tiny little pieces.

I also bought some butternut pumpkin. I'll have to go back through the posts to find out how I prepare that for her.

I loved your post with pics on the food you feed: it inspired me, but I'm not sure where to go with that. What do you think - might raw be a good alternative for Girlie, especially as she's contemplating chronic kidney disease? She's borderline right now, apparently; the vet thinks that that - and not the diabetes - is why she's still drinking and weeing so much still. I spent a lot of time looking at food charts last night, and feeding a diabetic a low phosphorous diet looks like an interesting challenge. She hasn't gotten the CDK diagnosis yet, but the vet thinks that she definitely has some level of renal failure, especially given her age (18 years).
Click to expand...
There is no need to test/feed so frequently if she is bouncing (if you are doing it to try and control the bounce). It is just when she is dropping and you need to control the curve with food.
With the chicken hearts feed them raw. You can cut them up as much as you like. Don't give more than 6 a day. I only feed 2 or 3..
With the pumpkin just cut it up and steam it or boil it til soft...drain it and mash. Don't add anything. When cool freeze into ice cube containers and defrost as needed. You could give up to a teaspoon a meal if needed but I'd start off small and see how she goes and if she'll eat it. A lot of cats like the taste.
With the raw diet, you will need to try her with different meats to see if she will eat them. Try beef mince....make sure there are no additives.WW is OK..... but not sure about the other minces.....Turkey I know has additives. Not sure about chicken. You could try her with small pieces of cooked or raw chicken, pork. Just give her a piece of what you are having.
If she is still over the renal threshold...and she is when she's over about 250... she will pee more than a normal cat would.
 
Chris & China said:
That's because it does!!

I think the most accurate description I've heard is that it smells like a Band-Aid factory, although some people say it smells like scotch but I don't drink so I wouldn't know
Click to expand...
I've never really smelled band-aids, but I used to like Scotch, and Lantus doesn't inspire me the way Scotch used to. Then again, I don't drink anymore, so maybe I've forgotten. Boy, though, Lantus has an awfully potent smell! Ick, ick, ick... If I were a cat, I'd make that funny face they make when they inhale a potent smell.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
There is no need to test/feed so frequently if she is bouncing (if you are doing it to try and control the bounce). It is just when she is dropping and you need to control the curve with food.
With the chicken hearts feed them raw. You can cut them up as much as you like. Don't give more than 6 a day. I only feed 2 or 3..
With the pumpkin just cut it up and steam it or boil it til soft...drain it and mash. Don't add anything. When cool freeze into ice cube containers and defrost as needed. You could give up to a teaspoon a meal if needed but I'd start off small and see how she goes and if she'll eat it. A lot of cats like the taste.
With the raw diet, you will need to try her with different meats to see if she will eat them. Try beef mince....make sure there are no additives.WW is OK..... but not sure about the other minces.....Turkey I know has additives. Not sure about chicken. You could try her with small pieces of cooked or raw chicken, pork. Just give her a piece of what you are having.
If she is still over the renal threshold...and she is when she's over about 250... she will pee more than a normal cat would.
Click to expand...
She's so picky, Bron: not interested in cooked meats, but will dive into juice and adores butter; loves cheese; loves anything fatty - no wonder she has high cholesterol!
When I was in WW today, I saw these prepackaged VIP (?) raw cat foods: are these any good?
Thanks for the tip re the pumpkin: I'll give that a go tonight.
When you say she's over the renal threshold when she's over 250 - is the 250 her BG number or is that the Creatinine? Her most recent creatinine was 190.
Thank you again for all the tips and suggestions! :bighug:
 
Girlie's mom said:
She's so picky, Bron: not interested in cooked meats, but will dive into juice and adores butter; loves cheese; loves anything fatty - no wonder she has high cholesterol!
When I was in WW today, I saw these prepackaged VIP (?) raw cat foods: are these any good?
Thanks for the tip re the pumpkin: I'll give that a go tonight.
When you say she's over the renal threshold when she's over 250 - is the 250 her BG number or is that the Creatinine? Her most recent creatinine was 190.
Thank you again for all the tips and suggestions! :bighug:
Click to expand...
The renal threshold varies between cats but is around 250 blood glucose level. Some cats have higher renal thresholds and some lower ECID.
No I would not use any of the prepackaged raw diets. They usually have additives and preservatives.
I only use human grade meat for the cats.
If she is picky, all you can do is try her with the different raw meats and see if she will eat them. Don't make a big deal of it......just casually drop a bit on the floor beside you when you are in the kitchen as if you didn't mean to drop it and see if she will eat it.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
The renal threshold varies between cats but is around 250 blood glucose level. Some cats have higher renal thresholds and some lower ECID.
No I would not use any of the prepackaged raw diets. They usually have additives and preservatives.
I only use human grade meat for the cats.
If she is picky, all you can do is try her with the different raw meats and see if she will eat them. Don't make a big deal of it......just casually drop a bit on the floor beside you when you are in the kitchen as if you didn't mean to drop it and see if she will eat it.
Click to expand...
I'll be casual about it and see what she does...
I'll avoid the prepackaged stuff: thanks for the tip!
 
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