New to dosing

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Janel and Alabaster

Janel and Alabaster

Member Since 2017
Hi All!
We are newly diagnosed and I have a Lantus dose question. This afternoon Alley was 75 so we gave him some temptation treats and a little snack. Three hours later we tested him and he was up to 107. I then as well gave him 6 temptation treats. We just tested him for his 6:30pm dinner and he is at 167. We do not have our .25/.50 syringe yet. Does anyone recommend giving him 1 unit, or should we not give him any until we check in the morning for his 6:30am dose?
Thank you!:cat:
 
He actually hasn't earned a reduction yet (depending on if you're doing TR or SLGS), and he IS heading up (the official "time to act" is when they drop below 50 on a human meter, 68 on a pet meter. Do you know if you're doing Tight Regulation or Start Low, Go Slow?

We like to use something like the gravy from a "Gravy Lovers" food instead of dry or Temptations because they can take longer to break down and get into the bloodstream and take longer to work their way out. If the cat drops below those "time to act" numbers, we want to bring them up quickly and the "gravy" part of the Gravy Lovers food works well for that (unless your cat can't tolerate the "gravy".....then you might add a few drops of Karo/honey/syrup to regular food to bring him up quickly)

I think what has happened is you went from 2U to 3U which looks like it may be too much. We do dose increases in .25 unit increments ...whole units are too much for small animals like cats. You've gone from 1 to 2 to 3....that's just too much, too fast.

I think you could give 1U safely and just get a test at +1 and +2 (to start with) so if he does something unexpected, you could intervene early.....and I'd drop back to 2.5 tomorrow (most people can eyeball .5 unit increments pretty well, but if you live in the US, you can get syringes with half unit markings from WalMart for less than $13/100
 
We went to Walmart yesterday and they did not sell the syringes. We're going to order them online tomorrow. Once we get the syringes we will be trying the SLGS method. We'll give him 1unit now and retest him in an hour. Thank you so much for your help.
 
Hi Janel! Chris & China answered your question, but I just wanted to pop in and say that my kitty and your kitty could be cousins! Hope you get the syringes you need soon!
 
Janel and Alabaster said:
We went to Walmart yesterday and they did not sell the syringes
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I've never heard of a WalMart that didn't sell their own brand of syringes, although I've heard several times where people were told that they didn't have them with half unit markings (but they DO)

Seems like a lot of people that work in their pharmacies don't realize that their Relion 3/10ml syringes all come with half unit markings

Getting them (whether from WalMart or online) will really help with his dosing in the future!!
 
[QUO
Djamila said:
Hi Janel! Chris & China answered your question, but I just wanted to pop in and say that my kitty and your kitty could be cousins! Hope you get the syringes you need soon!
Click to expand...
TE="Djamila, post: 2002011, member: 13192"]Hi Janel! Chris & China answered your question, but I just wanted to pop in and say that my kitty and your kitty could be cousins! Hope you get the syringes you need soon![/QUOTE]
Awe! Your kitty is so cute! And thank you. Us too! Hopefully tomorrow! :cat:
 
Chris & China said:
I've never heard of a WalMart that didn't sell their own brand of syringes, although I've heard several times where people were told that they didn't have them with half unit markings (but they DO)

Seems like a lot of people that work in their pharmacies don't realize that their Relion 3/10ml syringes all come with half unit markings

Getting them (whether from WalMart or online) will really help with his dosing in the future!!
Click to expand...
Yeah, they told us they had syringes but only in whole units. I really really would like them so for sure we'll be getting them.
 
Hi Janel!
I'm still a new Lantus user but I think the dose changes from 1.0 to 2.0, then 2.0 to 3.0, and from 3.0 back to 2.0U after the discussion on Main Health, messed with the depot. So depot could've been a little fuller causing her lower PMPS tonight. It is a very nice one but the consistent dosing will help give similar PS numbers :). I think I also explained this is the reasoning to not change the dose too much and only do it by 0.25U increments like Chris informed as well. I also think he'll be OK with the 1.0U tonight but do check by at least +2 to see where he's headed.

For the Walmart thing, I've also encountered this problem. The staff kind of looked at me like I had 2 heads when I asked about syringes with half unit markings. Think I tried 2 Walmarts and 1 Target :facepalm:. I gave you the link for the one's I use and I feel for a couple extra dollars it's worth not dealing with them haha.

Looks like Chris suggested trying 2.5U starting tomorrow, numbers permitting ;). Probably shows I'm still too new to Lantus because I would've thought you might try the 1.5U dose but Chris probably sees something I don't :).
 
Janel and Alabaster said:
Yeah, they told us they had syringes but only in whole units
Click to expand...

Uggghhhh.....always love it when people don't know their own products!!!

Their 3/10 syringes all come with half unit markings....if they don't believe it, tell them to open a package and look for themselves!!

Here's an article that even tells about it!! (talks about children but the concept is the same!)

Children with diabetes often take very small amounts of insulin. Half-unit dosing is common. The ReliOn Short Needle 3/10 cc syringe offers half-unit markings to make it easier to measure low insulin doses.
Young children are especially good candidates for this syringe, since they often have less body fat than older kids and adults. Infants are also good candidates, because they are so small. If you or your child has been using a syringe with a 29 gauge, 1/2 inch needle, you should consult with your doctor before making a change. You might notice absorption differences due to the short needle. Because the needle on this syringe is so short, you should inject at a 90 degree angle to ensure that the insulin is injected properly.

The ReliOn Short Needle Syringe, especially the 3/10 cc version, is highly recommended for children with diabetes. ReliOn products are available exclusively at Wal-Mart stores.
 
Thank you! I touched base with a friend who is a diabetic and only uses the pen now. She has a huge supply of syringes that she will be bringing me tomorrow. The lowest number is 10 but I do see about five lines below that, that you can pull too. I'll take a better look when I can see them in person. Do you know if it is recommended to use one syringe per dose, then toss it?
 
Janel and Alabaster said:
Thank you! I touched base with a friend who is a diabetic and only uses the pen now. She has a huge supply of syringes that she will be bringing me tomorrow. The lowest number is 10 but I do see about five lines below that, that you can pull too. I'll take a better look when I can see them in person. Do you know if it is recommended to use one syringe per dose, then toss it?
Click to expand...
Yes. one syringe per dose. Repeated use can blunt the tip even if you can't see it - more painful for kitty. It also increases the risk of infection.
 
Okay, thank you so much. We have a sharps container so that's good. If he will be getting 2.5.. do we do 2 from the pen, and then .5 from the syringe, or is there an option to do 2.5 from the syringe?
 
@Yong Hi there! Could you please message me the link for purchasing the syringes online? I can't seem to find it in my threads. I've tried looking on my own online and am hitting a wall.
 
Yong said:
Hi Janel!
I'm still a new Lantus user but I think the dose changes from 1.0 to 2.0, then 2.0 to 3.0, and from 3.0 back to 2.0U after the discussion on Main Health, messed with the depot. So depot could've been a little fuller causing her lower PMPS tonight. It is a very nice one but the consistent dosing will help give similar PS numbers :). I think I also explained this is the reasoning to not change the dose too much and only do it by 0.25U increments like Chris informed as well. I also think he'll be OK with the 1.0U tonight but do check by at least +2 to see where he's headed.

For the Walmart thing, I've also encountered this problem. The staff kind of looked at me like I had 2 heads when I asked about syringes with half unit markings. Think I tried 2 Walmarts and 1 Target :facepalm:. I gave you the link for the one's I use and I feel for a couple extra dollars it's worth not dealing with them haha.

Looks like Chris suggested trying 2.5U starting tomorrow, numbers permitting ;). Probably shows I'm still too new to Lantus because I would've thought you might try the 1.5U dose but Chris probably sees something I don't :).
Click to expand...
We've been back to using 2 units until our syringes arrive. This morning he was down to 186 so we gave him 1 unit. I will not be able to check him as I am at work all day. I'm worried 1 unit will drop him too low. Am I over-worrying?
 
Hi Janel - Based on the data you have, you may be over-worrying. Lantus dose is determined based on the nadir (low) not the pre-shot number. As others have mentioned, consistency over multiple days is important. You will also want to have some additional mid-cycle tests to determine how low Ally is going (AM and PM would be great). We all worry and want to do the best for our kitties - my feedback is intended as reassurance not criticism. Data can empower you. As you get more data you can learn what to expect going forward (then you will worry less)!

As you get going, you will want to start a new thread for each day. You can get guidance and answers to your questions. If you have made the decision to move forward with SLGS that would be good to include in your signature. Also, it is helpful to let folks know the type of meter you use so they can be more specific in their advice.

The sticky notes have lots of helpful information. Hope you have been able to review and understand how depot insulin works - that will explain more about consistency and why it is important.
 
Thank you Carol. All of you have been such a great resource and help. Is the depot insulin information in a certain forum? I always check Ally at 6am and 6pm. It's a bit hard for me to check him mid day due to work. Would it be helpful if I checked him around 11pm?
 
Sorry - I probably should have just included the link. All of the yellow sticky notes at the top of the Lantus forum are handy. :cat:

I was overwhelmed at first. While I did read all the sticky notes, I must admit I have had to re-read some of them and also those in the health links a few times. :bookworm:

Regarding schedule - What I would suggest is that you consider your schedule and the need for data to determine a testing routine. In my case, I am usually home during the day and can routinely test at +3 +6 and +9 in the AM and +3 and +6 in the PM. Just an example, my situation is different: I am obsessed with data, following TR and have an unregulated cat with other health problems. My weaknesses in terms of data are early visibility (+1, +2). These initial data points can help indicate what to expect later in the cycle. I also have some gaps overnight (+8 - +11). Some cats go lower overnight - I won't know about mine until I get more data. You can see these data gaps as "white space" in my spreadsheet. So to answer your question, yes - 11PM would be helpful to understand the PM mid-cycle. If you can't get the low during the day, try to get it at night!

I know you are working away from home and considering SLGS. Other members may have suggestions for you such as doing a curve on the weekend when you would be home and could test every 2 - 3 hours. In my opinion, it will take a few days at the same dose to have some stability and valid data. With frequent dose changes things are not yet stable or easy to understand. The term used here is NDW - New Dose Wonkiness (dictionary). If you are comfortable at 1U, you may want to hold that dose for a few says and then do a curve this weekend and post for more guidance from dose experts. I am not a dose expert or proficient with SLGS, but understand the expectation would be to hold the initial dose for 7 days.

I'm glad you are feeling welcome and would encourage you to continue to ask questions. This group is very eager to help both you and Ally.
 
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