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For urgent questions there are 2 ways to handle it. One is start a new thread and ask a new question. (If there's an emergency, like a hypo issue, definitely start a new thread and use the prefix 911.)
The other option is this site shows you which members are on at any time. You can click on then and send a message, but this may be counter-productive of all that's on is new people. But if you recognize any user names, reach out.
And a third option is tag people in your thread. Just put the @ symbol before going their name and it will send a notification. (If everyone's sleep this might still take a bit... But there's usually someone on.)

Did you already read through what to look for when a kitty goes hypo, and what actions to take? There's a whole list posted in here. It would be good to read through that just in case. (I know you already had this happen once, but better to be prepared.)
Also just to give you a gauge. My non-diabetic cat tested at 50, so definitely no insulin needed. I'm so glad Yong caught you before you shot! Phew!
If you do any more tests tonight please post your results. I'll try to check in through the night randomly. Have the gravy and carbs ready tonight, just in case.
 
I think your AMPS is soon, within the hour, and I see he bounced at your +2 which is not unexpected. As long as he's above 220 (slightly increasing since I might not be back until later), you could try the previously suggested dose of 2.5U. If you won't be home to check him due to working, then I might suggest only giving 2.0U. We'd rather have him a little higher while you're gone than too low for a second. Especially after 2 Hypo's.

Interesting SS colours now :woot: kind of threw my focus lol. Since you seem to be able to navigate the SS, think you could try to put in the AT2 data above the ReliOn and separate them? Might be nice to have all the data viewable :).
 
Yong said:
I think your AMPS is soon, within the hour, and I see he bounced at your +2 which is not unexpected. As long as he's above 220 (slightly increasing since I might not be back until later), you could try the previously suggested dose of 2.5U. If you won't be home to check him due to working, then I might suggest only giving 2.0U. We'd rather have him a little higher while you're gone than too low for a second. Especially after 2 Hypo's.

Interesting SS colours now :woot: kind of threw my focus lol. Since you seem to be able to navigate the SS, think you could try to put in the AT2 data above the ReliOn and separate them? Might be nice to have all the data viewable :).
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I went with your suggestion and gave him 2 Units since I won't be home for the rest of the day. LOL about the SS...I stayed up until 4 am, obviously I have no life. :p If it's too much I'll just reset it. And I'll definitely work on putting the old into the new tonight! Hehe
 
Hi Crystal and Leo!

If you are around for a few hours before heading off to work, test Leo at +1.5 to +2 post shot or at least before heading out and see where his BG is. That 410 this morning is no doubt at least in part due to a bounce from those lows yesterday and that can make kitty a bit more sensitive to insulin for a cycle or two. Bounces can take up to 6 cycles (each cycle is 12 hours) to clear but some kitties clear them faster some slower. I'm so glad you reduced the dose and I think the 2u will be fine. If Leo is dropping a lot as of +2, (or when you grab that test before work) then feed him a bit more food and leave some food out for him to have while you are at work. Post here if you have any questions. :)

At night, if you can grab another test before bed, if you get up for a "visit" in the night, or even earlier in the AM before the pre-shot, it will really help to fill in pieces of the puzzle and help figure out how best to help Leo and get his BG under better control.
 
While I'm sure Leo is fine now, I am not convinced that reducing the dose even further to say 1.5u for a few cycles wouldn't stop some of the bouncing. That is a big drop, far more than 50% in 4 hours from 410 to 160 and that will likely set off another high pre-shot. I find it's better in the early days to ease the BG down and get kitty more used to lower numbers and not riding a roller coaster of dramatic ups and downs.
 
Looks like I won't be giving him insulin again tonight. After several painful attempts I finally got enough blood and it read 191. I didn't hear back from anyone in time earlier so I did leave a little food down for him just to be on the safe side. Unless anyone suggests otherwise he won't be getting insulin tonight though. I will try to test in a couple hours if I'm still awake.
 
Good call.
Expect to be high again in the morning. Bouncing is difficult. It just means the dose isn't quite right yet.
The testing does get easier the more you do it. (The treats help too, Fabby would let me do anything for treats.)
Slow and steady wins this race.
 
Interestingly low pre-shot last night. Great to see but unexpected and I'm glad you decided to skip the shot. It's unusual for Vetsulin to last the full 12 hours but it does happen. I'm wondering if that lower pre-shot is indicative that the transition to FF is helping the numbers come down. What ratio of FF to Hills Science Sensitive are you feeding now?

I think I'd reduce the dose to 1.5u even with a pre-shot over 200 and monitor closely to see how that works for Leo.
 
I agree with Linda to reduce the dose to 1.5U as long as BG is over 200. We won't have you administer insulin under 200 this early in the dance :)
 
I'm off today so I will be able to test throughout the day--after I buy a new BG monitor because this one is driving us both mad with the amount of blood it needs!
 
68 is a NORMAL BG number for a cat and a really good normal number! Is that without food for at least 2 hours? Definitely no shot right now! :D I wouldn't bother getting another glucometer until you see what is going on here. Looks like Leo may have other plans than to have you poking and stabbing him with pointy objects! ;)

ETA I just remembered you skipped the shot last night which makes that 68 an even better surprising number.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
68 is a NORMAL BG number for a cat and a really good normal number! Is that without food for at least 2 hours? Definitely no shot right now! :D I wouldn't bother getting another glucometer until you see what is going on here. Looks like Leo may have other plans than to have you poking and stabbing him with pointy objects! ;)
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He hadn't been fed for 12 hours when I took that reading. I am supposed to feed him only every 12 hours right? I was letting him eat whenever he wanted with the HSD dry and just left the bowl down for him before so he does get hungry in-between now.

To answer your question earlier he has been eating strictly FF classics for the past 2 days--nothing else.

I have one more lancet left so I was going to run to the store and pick up either the ReliOn Confirm or Micro since that seems to be a better choice.
 
Crystal & Leo said:
Wow, I don't know whats going on here or if this is normal but his BG is 68 right now for pre-shot. Is this good or bad?
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I thought you were on 10:00 / 22:00 schedule? Either way 68 is a very nice PS number with no insulin last night and definitely none today. Most kitties don't do well with twice a day feedings so many feed multiple times a day and stop 2 hours prior to pre-shot test time. I call it a 20/7 buffet (instead of 24/7, taking away 2 hours for each cycle ;)). New diet is looking very promising! :woot:

Confirm/Micro take the same strips it's just he meter size is different. Make sure to pick up test strips for new meter as they do not use Prime strips. :)
 
Ok believe it or not, you MAY have a diet controllable diabetic cat and that is wonderful news. I am crossing all fingers, toes and all available paws here that Leo keeps pumping out low numbers for you.

You do not need to feed Leo only twice daily, Most of us feed 4 or 6 times per day with a larger portion of food with insulin and smaller snacks in between. Some even free feed. With that number being 12 hours post food, Leo is in great shape!
 
Yong said:
I thought you were on 10:00 / 22:00 schedule? Either way 68 is a very nice PS number with no insulin last night and definitely none today. Most kitties don't do well with twice a day feedings so many feed multiple times a day and stop 2 hours prior to pre-shot test time. I call it a 20/7 buffet (instead of 24/7, taking away 2 hours for each cycle ;)). New diet is looking very promising! :woot:

Confirm/Micro take the same strips it's just he meter size is different. Make sure to pick up test strips for new meter as they do not use Prime strips. :)
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Should I be feeding him the same FF Classic stuff multiple times a day? And the others don't take less blood to work? I had better luck with the AlphaTRAK because all you need is a little on the side but I checked on Amazon and the strips are nearly a dollar per strip!

MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Ok believe it or not, you MAY have a diet controllable diabetic cat and that is wonderful news. I am crossing all fingers, toes and all available paws here that Leo keeps pumping out low numbers for you.

You do not need to feed Leo only twice daily, Most of us feed 4 or 6 times per day with a larger portion of food with insulin and smaller snacks in between. Some even free feed. With that number being 12 hours post food, Leo is in great shape!
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I can't even begin to express how happy the sound of that makes me...You know it's crazy to me that in the few days I have been here I have learned more about this disease then the vet has ever told me in two years time. I can't believe I went this long without testing at home. The vet never once mentioned it or even suggested a low carb diet. Leo has probably been through hell. :(
 
Crystal & Leo said:
Should I be feeding him the same FF Classic stuff multiple times a day? And the others don't take less blood to work? I had better luck with the AlphaTRAK because all you need is a little on the side but I checked on Amazon and the strips are nearly a dollar per strip!
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Any Low Carb foods. My boy doesn't like eating the same flavour multiple times a day so I rotate :rolleyes:. The ReliOn Confirm/Micro take less blood than the Prime. They're listed as needing 0.3µl like AT2. I think they take a teeny bit more but it's still less than the Prime, which needs 0.5µl. Yes, unfortunately, AT2 strips are expensive. That's why I just use mine for curves ;)
Crystal & Leo said:
The vet never once mentioned it or even suggested a low carb diet. Leo has probably been through hell. :(
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Don't be too hard on yourself :bighug:. Vet's receive like 5 hours of training for FD and like an hour or two of nutrition from the big food companies. They're expected to know a little about everything and like human doctors, it's why we have specialists :). The important thing is if your Vet is supportive ;). Leo will forgive you, all he see's is you were trying to help him with what you were told :cat:
 
And to think your vet prescribed 5units twice daily...
I hope wonderful things and Leo is able to be controlled through diet only!

One other thing to consider:
I brought my cat Tristan in to the vet because he was showing urinary issue symptoms. (I'm hyper aware because I had a previous cat with crystals just the year before.) They ran some tests and said he had a UTI but they were more concerned with his glucose numbers being over a thousand. They sent me home with literature on diabetes and scheduled a recheck on Monday. They were convinced he was diabetic. I was skeptical and wanted to hold off until we got the urinary issue under control. If I hadn't had experience in the urinary realm they would have sent me home with insulin. Tristan isn't diabetic at all. After we cleared his UTI his glucose numbers went back to normal.
It makes me wonder if while at the vet Leo presented with some sort of infection that along with the stress of the visit spiked his glucose and then the vet over prescribed insulin which caused Leo's body to respond and bounce.

Either way, it's really good you started home testing!
 
You'd be blown away by how many folks end up here in exactly the same situation....too much insulin and not making any progress. Admittedly, not many immediately show signs of remission but there have been some and we've had other cats that were diet controlled too. Vets just don't get enough training on diabetes and many treat cats as if they were dogs and that just doesn't work. You've got this under control now so no matter what happens, as long as you hold the reins, you can do what you feel is best for Leo.

Just keep Leo on the low carb food. FF is fine but there are lots of other brands too if he'd like a bit more variety.

While I don't normally suggest this, as an interim measure, since it appears possible you won't be doing any intensive testing for long, you could just buy a vial of strips for the Freestyle Lite meters to use in the AT2 meter. They cost more than the Prime strips but about half of what the AT@ meter strips cost. They are the same strips but they have not been batch tested to determine the code to use in the AT2 meter. You just leave your AT2 meter on the current cat code. The results will be within the ballpark of what the AT2 would read with the batch tested strips. It's up to you but I'm not sure it's worth purchasing another meter right now until you see what Leo has up his sleeve.
 
Crystal & Leo said:
Should I be feeding him the same FF Classic stuff multiple times a day? :(
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Fabby lost a lot of weight before we got her diagnosed with diabetes, so I break her total calories per day into 4 meals (when possible). She just won't eat enough of a can of FF to feed only 2x a day. I can only free feed her if I have her completely quarantined so instead I aim for 4 times per day and she can have visitors.
Others mix a little water with the FF and freeze it so they can set it out when they go to work and the kitty gets to eat it once it's sufficiently thawed. Several kitties are able to use food available to regulate their diabetes throughout the day, which means less insulin needed to keep them managed.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
You'd be blown away by how many folks end up here in exactly the same situation....too much insulin and not making any progress. Admittedly, not many immediately show signs of remission but there have been some and we've had other cats that were diet controlled too. Vets just don't get enough training on diabetes and many treat cats as if they were dogs and that just doesn't work. You've got this under control now so no matter what happens, as long as you hold the reins, you can do what you feel is best for Leo.

Just keep Leo on the low carb food. FF is fine but there are lots of other brands too if he'd like a bit more variety.

While I don't normally suggest this, as an interim measure, since it appears possible you won't be doing any intensive testing for long, you could just buy a vial of strips for the Freestyle Lite meters to use in the AT2 meter. They cost more than the Prime strips but about half of what the AT@ meter strips cost. They are the same strips but they have not been batch tested to determine the code to use in the AT2 meter. You just leave your AT2 meter on the current cat code. The results will be within the ballpark of what the AT2 would read with the batch tested strips. It's up to you but I'm not sure it's worth purchasing another meter right now until you see what Leo has up his sleeve.
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I just came home with the ReliOn Micro before reading your response but I already like this one much more. I checked his BG as soon as I set it up and unfortunately it has went back up to 323. I got a couple more flavors of the Classic FF while I was at the store since I didn't have the list of other low carb foods on me and he gobbled up half a can before I just tested.

On a more positive note--no diarrhea since the complete transition to FF except on the car ride to the ER , which could've been caused by stress.
 
Well that 323 is indeed a surprise.:( I wonder if the Prime meter reads even with an insufficient blood sample?! Or maybe the battery is getting low which can cause some odd and very off readings with some meters. Been victim to that scenario myself!:banghead: And it happened on a new meter I was testing. If that is the case, then I suppose that 191 last night may be a bit suspect too. I assume there is no chance he got back into the high carb food?

Not to worry....we'll help you get back on course. I'd suggest you stick with the 2 units for now if his BG at pre-shot is 300 or above and 1u if BG is between 200 and 300 tonight and monitor Leo at +1.5 or +2 tonight to see how much he is dropping on that dose. I think you are on the same time as me (EST). What time do you do Leo's shots? I'll try to look in to see how things are going if our times are compatible.

It's still possible that the low carb canned diet is working its wonders because if I am understanding correctly, you are only on day 2 of the switch now. Sometime the full effect of lowering the carbs isn't evident for a few days to a week.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Well that 323 is indeed a surprise.:( I wonder if the Prime meter reads even with an insufficient blood sample?! Or maybe the battery is getting low which can cause some odd and very off readings with some meters. Been victim to that scenario myself!:banghead: And it happened on a new meter I was testing. If that is the case, then I suppose that 191 last night may be a bit suspect too. I assume there is no chance he got back into the high carb food?

Not to worry....we'll help you get back on course. I'd suggest you stick with the 2 units for now if his BG at pre-shot is 300 or above and 1u if BG is between 200 and 300 tonight and monitor Leo at +1.5 or +2 tonight to see how much he is dropping on that dose. I think you are on the same time as me (EST). What time do you do Leo's shots? I'll try to look in to see how things are going if our times are compatible.

It's still possible that the low carb canned diet is working its wonders because if I am understanding correctly, you are only on day 2 of the switch now. Sometime the full effect of lowering the carbs isn't evident for a few days to a week.
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I was just about to ask you for dosing suggestions tonight! So far with the new meter the numbers have been pretty consistent (in the 300's.) It's nearly 2 hours before his PMPS and it's now 352...slowly going up. No high carb food unless there is a flavor of FF Classic that's high in carbs. He gets his insulin around 11.
 
Crystal & Leo said:
I was just about to ask you for dosing suggestions tonight! So far with the new meter the numbers have been pretty consistent (in the 300's.) It's nearly 2 hours before his PMPS and it's now 352...slowly going up. No high carb food unless there is a flavor of FF Classic that's high in carbs. He gets his insulin around 11.
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Why not try 1 unit for tonight and tomorrow, numbers permitting. It's the usual starting dose for Vetsulin and you need some data for lower doses now that you know 5 u is far too high.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Why not try 1 unit for tonight and tomorrow, numbers permitting. It's the usual starting dose for Vetsulin and you need some data for lower doses now that you know 5 u is far too high.
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Yong said:
I like the idea of trying 1.0U for a little bit as well, numbers permitting :)
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I agree. Numbers were relatively the same for PMPS so we're back at 1 unit to start for now. I will check back in with you all in the morning and we will go from there. :)
 
Sorry! I crashed early last night but I see you had some great help from Kris and Yong! I agree it was a good idea to stick with 1u and see how that works for Leo. :)
 
Good morning! Leo's AMPS this morning is 176 so he won't be getting any insulin again.

I hope that I can get him regulated soon because I'm going out of town next week for my birthday and I would hate for anything to happen while I'm gone. I have someone who can administer insulin but they have no experience checking BG.
 
Well wasn't that a welcome surprise! I'm thinking it might be worth taking the dose down to 0.5u to see if you can get him to where 2 shots a day is feasible and ease him on up from there if needed. He's all over the map right now and difficult to get a handle on.

Oh @Yong I see great minds think alike! :smuggrin:
 
Yong said:
Ok on that note, if he's over 200 tonight, I might suggest trying 0.5U :). How many days will you be away?
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Sounds like a plan! 0.5U is just half a Unit right? I'll be gone for a whole 4 days.

MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Well wasn't that a welcome surprise! I'm thinking it might be worth taking the dose down to 0.5u to see if you can get him to where 2 shots a day is feasible and ease him on up from there if needed. He's all over the map right now and difficult to get a handle on.
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Is it normal to go up so high during the day and drop down in the morning after not eating?
 
Crystal & Leo said:
Is it normal to go up so high during the day and drop down in the morning after not eating?
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For some unknown reason, many cats go lower at night even if they do have access to food....perhaps less stimulation, natural circadian rhythm....who knows. But if Leo has been without food for several hours as of the morning test, then yes that would cause a lower BG. So it looks like a true fasting BG for Leo is not that high....slightly above normal but not by much. Maybe to smooth things out a bit, you could leave a bit of food out overnight in case he needs it. Vetsulin causes an early drop in BG and then in some cats you will see a second dip later in the cycle but often it's so minor it's not really evident. Could be that with no food overnight, Leo is getting more of a drop than we are aware of as well as no food to push BG back up.
When are you leaving for your trip?
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
When are you leaving for your trip?
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That makes sense...I'm leaving Sunday morning, the 23rd. I will need to gradually give insulin earlier and earlier until I get to 7 since the person watching him while I'm away has nearly the opposite schedule (gone from 7-5.) It's definitely hard to go anywhere with diabetic babies at home.
 
Crystal & Leo said:
That makes sense...I'm leaving Sunday morning, the 23rd. I will need to gradually give insulin earlier and earlier until I get to 7 since the person watching him while I'm away has nearly the opposite schedule (gone from 7-5.) It's definitely hard to go anywhere with diabetic babies at home.
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With Vetsulin you can back up each shot by 30 minutes, so an hour for each day.
 
Ok! Let's see how Leo does for the next few days and then we can discuss dosing while you are gone given that your sitter doesn't test. It's better to have Leo running a little high in your absence than risking too low. If you can grab tests around +2, +4 and +6 in his cycles randomly as well as pre-shots (not four tests every cycle) for the next few days, either in the day or evening or both, whatever works for you, it will give us a good view of what's going on and give us some data on which to make decisions to keep Leo safe while you are away.

It definitely is a bit more of a challenge getting away but it's doable. I thankfully have a friend who offered to learn how to care for my sugar when I had to head out of town. Something to think about for the future.
 
I'll get as many tests as I can this week on my days off. His BG was 400 for PMPS this evening and he got .5U.

MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Ok! It definitely is a bit more of a challenge getting away but it's doable. I thankfully have a friend who offered to learn how to care for my sugar when I had to head out of town. Something to think about for the future.
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Luck you! My only friends are animals lol. I looked into pet boarding but it's out of my budget.
 
Yes I'd continue the same 0.5u for now. The goal is to get Leo's cycles to smooth out a bit and that might put the mid cycle tests up a bit but also bring down the pre-shot numbers or in Leo's case, help us figure out those low pre-shots the last couple of days. This keeps bouncing to a minimum and makes it much easier to see exactly what any given dose is doing for him. Holding the same dose for about 3 days (six 12 hour cycles) allows for any existing bounce to clear. If his pre-shots go up then I'd re-evaluate the dose earlier, otherwise stay the course for the moment.
 
Just got home from work and his PMPS is 186 so I guess no insulin tonight again. These huge differences in BG levels are starting to confuse me. I did leave some food out before I left but he probably finished it off hours ago. Wonder if that might contribute to the lower reading tonight. :/
 
What a guy! He's got me scratching my head because Vetsulin does not usually last the full 12 hours and yet he is getting low pre-shots and higher mid cycle numbers............somewhat backwards. Some of that could be lack of food for awhile but it still surprises me a bit since most of the drop usually happens in the first half of the cycle with Vetsulin and even without food I'd expect to see a rise in the last half. I'd definitely keep the dose low.....I shutter to think he was on 5u before.

How is Leo acting now? Is he more active than he was? Sleeping less? Less lethargic? Peeing any less? Less hungry? It's not just about numbers. General observations like this also speak volumes as to how kitty is doing.
 
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