Beenie's dose

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Good morning!
I am happy to report our first blue number last night :cool:. I actually set the alarm to get a 2:00am reading just to keep an eye on it and it went back up slightly not down like I was almost worried about.
My question is this mornings AMPS number. What the heck?:eek:

Just the wonkiness of the sugar dance or something else??

No contraband food was left out anywhere. Can't be a bounce, can it?
 
Hooray for the first blue!!! Today's numbers are unfortunately totally normal. After a kitty hits a new "low" number, they will usually follow that up with a few high flat cycles. Even though 192 isn't particularly low, it's low for Beenie, so his body panics a little and floods his system with stored glucose giving you the numbers you're seeing today. It's nothing to worry about, and is a very normal, predictable part of the sugar dance. It's also the part that we all kind of hate. We usually refer to it as bouncing. or vets usually call in somogyi effect.
 
Ah so it is bouncing. Just tested again and was able to get ketone test in too. Also have the strips ready to go!

Thank you so much!:bighug:
 
I'm going to hold the 6.4 unit dose for a few more cycles since we had our first bounce. Typical is 6 cycles or is there something in her numbers I should be looking for :bookworm:before we increase again??

Where are my manners......GOOD MORNING!!:bighug:
 
Good morning Michelle! :coffee:;)
Even though that blue set off a bounce, if her PMPS is still pink, I think you could safely increase to 6.6U tonight or tomorrow morning if you prefer increases in the mornings :smuggrin:. There's still room for improvement :cool:. Just my thought :cat:

LOL just read your note from yesterday's ketone test
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Beenie said:
I'm going to hold the 6.4 unit dose for a few more cycles since we had our first bounce. Typical is 6 cycles or is there something in her numbers I should be looking for :bookworm:before we increase again??

Where are my manners......GOOD MORNING!!:bighug:
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Yes, we usually recommend 6 cycles to get enough data to assess a dose's effectiveness. If it doesn't give you better numbers, then it's time to raise the dose. If there's been a lower than usual number a cycle or two earlier the inflated numbers (at that same dose) are bounce numbers. Unfortunately, bouncing complicates everything. If the earlier low was not very low (such as your blue) then a dose increase isn't likely to suddenly produce a lime green.

A lot of this is decided based on your SS data, knowledge of Beenie's responses and your instincts. That last part is important and it develops over time.
 
Since she has never dropped low I'm comfortable with an increase tonight. Beenie agrees! Thanks!!
beenie sat morn.JPG

Yong- I didn't think anyone would catch that ketone note:D. Figured we were there had the strips, why not?!?
 
Yong said:
Good morning Michelle! :coffee:;)
Even though that blue set off a bounce, if her PMPS is still pink, I think you could safely increase to 6.6U tonight or tomorrow morning if you prefer increases in the mornings :smuggrin:. There's still room for improvement :cool:. Just my thought :cat:

PMPS was yellow so I held the dose. Always surprises!!;)

LOL just read your note from yesterday's ketone test
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Morning!
Ah don't worry about the weird post, it happens ;). Looks like another bounce :p. I think you're getting close to his working dose (of course that can change again too :smuggrin:)
 
Great example of what happens when you get close to the "good dose range"!! Keep in mind that things can get a bit ... exciting ... when you're there and that the good range can move around a bit. Nothing is ever set in stone with FD. :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Great example of what happens when you get close to the "good dose range"!! Keep in mind that things can get a bit ... exciting ... when you're there and that the good range can move around a bit. Nothing is ever set in stone with FD. :)
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Since AMPS was yellow too I'll hold this does if my PMPS is yellow again. I think I'm getting this :nailbiting:
 
Oh no, you can get a 0.1 increment :woot:. I'm going to get an old syringe and try to post pictures for you ;). I've been thinking about doing this anyways, I like visual aids :smuggrin:. You are drawing to line 16 for the 6.4U, correct?
 
Yong said:
Oh no, you can get a 0.1 increment :woot:. I'm going to get an old syringe and try to post pictures for you ;). I've been thinking about doing this anyways, I like visual aids :smuggrin:. You are drawing to line 16 for the 6.4U, correct?
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Yes I've been drawing to 16. So the half unit markers are .1? Maybe I'm saying this incorrectly. I'm using the U40 to U100 dosing chart and the increments are 6.0, 6.2, 6.4, 6.6, 6.8... So that's were I'm getting the .2 from. Yikes am I doing something wrong?:nailbiting:
 
Beenie said:
Yes I've been drawing to 16. So the half unit markers are .1? Maybe I'm saying this incorrectly. I'm using the U40 to U100 dosing chart and the increments are 6.0, 6.2, 6.4, 6.6, 6.8... So that's were I'm getting the .2 from. Yikes am I doing something wrong?:nailbiting:
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No, you're right :bighug:, the half unit marks are 0.2U. OH fiddle sticks, I am supposed to be leaving :facepalm:. I have to get the pictures together anyway. Don't fret about it right now :smuggrin:.
 
Beenie said:
Ok have a great day! See you guys on line later :)
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Hi Michelle,

What Yong meant was that the half unit marks on a U100 syringe correspond to 0.2 u if you're using them for ProZinc. Then, if you eyeball between those half unit intervals, you have a 0.1 u fraction. Does that make sense?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Hi Michelle,

What Yong meant was that the half unit marks on a U100 syringe correspond to 0.2 u if you're using them for ProZinc. Then, if you eyeball between those half unit intervals, you have a 0.1 u fraction. Does that make sense?
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I don't think I can I eyeball thato_O. It would be a crap shoot. I can barely just see the half unit markers. I went to CVS a month ago and had to get readerso_O Got them all over the house now!!!
Good lord I can't see close up anymore...I need longer arms:joyful:
 
Beenie said:
I don't think I can I eyeball thato_O. It would be a crap shoot. I can barely just see the half unit markers. I went to CVS a month ago and had to get readerso_O Got them all over the house now!!!
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I still got the pictures done, finally :rolleyes:. If it's too frustrating, don't worry about it but I said I would do them for you :)
upload_2017-7-11_18-11-50.png
 
Yong said:
I still got the pictures done, finally :rolleyes:. If it's too frustrating, don't worry about it but I said I would do them for you :)
View attachment 29655
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Ah I see now I get it! Thank you!!! I actually just gave Beenie her new dose of 6.8 U. I will try for 6.9 after we get through the next cycle. I had to be in my office all day today and I feel so guilty for not getting numbers today. I'm starting to get a bit obsessive :nailbiting:
I just set my alarm to get a +3 and +5 reading tonight to see what's happening. Thanks so much Yong for the pics:bighug:
 
Mornin'

I missed the +5 shot last night but was able to get +8 instead. We're not bouncing still, right? Just seems to be still running flat? Looks like another increase tomorrow morning unless you guys say its bouncing and I should hold. I can try for the .1 increase if that's advisable now that Yong sent me the pics of the syringe I know what I'm going for.
My patience pants are at the cleaners :facepalm: I'll pick them up today :joyful:
 
I don't really see any reason to just do a 0.1u increase right now. It's a great trick to know when it's time to fine tune the dose though! I think you could keep going with the 0.2u increases. It's nice that the pre-shots are starting to wiggle their way down!
 
Djamila said:
I don't really see any reason to just do a 0.1u increase right now. It's a great trick to know when it's time to fine tune the dose though! I think you could keep going with the 0.2u increases. It's nice that the pre-shots are starting to wiggle their way down!
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Ok so I will go with the 7.0 U next round. I think we're getting closer to the right dose since her numbers are certainly getting better than when we started this journey! Guess I'm perplexed on why I haven't gotten another blue since 7/6/2017 if the bounce cleared. Or maybe I missed it?!?
 
Posting reply over here:
Beenie said:
Hi Yong
So I didn't know the U-40 syringes came with half unit markings. So there is no need to use the U-100 and convert if these are available? Or is there an advantage to the U-100? Maybe the U-100 have smaller increments? Just curious so that when I need to re-order if I should switch.
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Like Steph said, the advantage is smaller increments which is working well for Beenie :). Towards the end of our Prozinc journey, I was using the U-100s with conversion chart too ;)
 
Hello!:coffee:
I feel like we're still running so flat. Do you guys see any bouncing? I can't believe how high of a dose we're on especially when I see so many other ProZincers at such tiny doses. I'm at the next increase tonight. Could there be any underlying issues? Just keep going with the .2U increases every 3 cycles until we see a real nadir?

Is Beenie getting any nutrients at these numbers? Should I consider meds for the neuropathy or wait until she's regulated and see if that improves it alone?

Sorry so many questions this Monday morning:bookworm:
 
Beenie said:
Hello!:coffee:
I feel like we're still running so flat. Do you guys see any bouncing? I can't believe how high of a dose we're on especially when I see so many other ProZincers at such tiny doses. I'm at the next increase tonight. Could there be any underlying issues? Just keep going with the .2U increases every 3 cycles until we see a real nadir?

Is Beenie getting any nutrients at these numbers? Should I consider meds for the neuropathy or wait until she's regulated and see if that improves it alone?

Sorry so many questions this Monday morning:bookworm:
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Hi Michelle,
It's possible that Beenie is a high dose kitty because of insulin antibodies or a condition like acromegaly. There are tests to verify that but many who find out don't/can't treat so they keep increasing the dose until the numbers come down. @StephG is in that position with her guy and it's one reason she's now using Lantus.

Another possibility is that Beenie has become insulin resistant from glucose toxicity that high numbers causes. The way around that is through it. Continue the careful dose increases every 3 cycles, maybe increasing the increment to 0.4 u or 0.6 u because she's getting a substantial dose.

If you can hang in there without getting too discouraged you WILL get somewhere eventually. The proliferating yellows on your SS are telling you that. :bighug::)
 
Chuck got up to 8.2 units before I switched to Lantus. In my area, lantus is cheaper per unit than ProZinc. At higher doses it was mostly a financial decision. He was and is still bouncy but he is doing much better on lantus. 3 months on lantus and we are up to 15 units twice a day.
I haven't tested for high dose conditions but it's pretty obvious he has at least one of them.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Hi Michelle,
It's possible that Beenie is a high dose kitty because of insulin antibodies or a condition like acromegaly. There are tests to verify that but many who find out don't/can't treat so they keep increasing the dose until the numbers come down. @StephG is in that position with her guy and it's one reason she's now using Lantus.

Another possibility is that Beenie has become insulin resistant from glucose toxicity that high numbers causes. The way around that is through it. Continue the careful dose increases every 3 cycles, maybe increasing the increment to 0.4 u or 0.6 u because she's getting a substantial dose.

If you can hang in there without getting too discouraged you WILL get somewhere eventually. The proliferating yellows on your SS are telling you that. :bighug::)
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Thanks Kris! I have a call into my vet for his two cents. In your opinion would it be safe to do the .4 or .6 u increase as opposed to the .2 u? I'm monitoring so I feel comfortable as I do keep an eye on things. Just want to take the best course of action. I just always worry about the high numbers for so long. God knows how long it went on before the Dx.

The yellows do make me happy as at least we're not seeing black or reds :)

I'm reading up on Lantus now just to familiarize myself with the differences. Just so in case we go that route in the future I know what its all about.
 
StephG said:
Chuck got up to 8.2 units before I switched to Lantus. In my area, lantus is cheaper per unit than ProZinc. At higher doses it was mostly a financial decision. He was and is still bouncy but he is doing much better on lantus. 3 months on lantus and we are up to 15 units twice a day.
I haven't tested for high dose conditions but it's pretty obvious he has at least one of them.
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Thanks Steph!! Wow Chuck is a high dose kitty:cat:. So if it was strictly a financial decision then I will stick with ProZinc for a while to see what happens. I will speak to my vet later today to see if he thinks its worth any testing to confirm no underlying conditions that would impact her resistance. I'm fortunate that our pet insurance covers 80% of the insulin and ProZinc has the flexibility I would like to keep. I'm usually on the money with our dose times but there will be circumstances where I may run late and at least I have peace of mind I have a little wiggle room on timing.
 
Beenie said:
Thanks Kris! I have a call into my vet for his two cents. In your opinion would it be safe to do the .4 or .6 u increase as opposed to the .2 u? I'm monitoring so I feel comfortable as I do keep an eye on things. Just want to take the best course of action. I just always worry about the high numbers for so long. God knows how long it went on before the Dx.

The yellows do make me happy as at least we're not seeing black or reds :)

I'm reading up on Lantus now just to familiarize myself with the differences. Just so in case we go that route in the future I know what its all about.
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You can certainly stick to the 0.2 u increases but I wouldn't hold a dose longer than 3 cycles if it's not doing the job. You're right about ProZinc's flexibility, though - scheduling, dose changing, etc. Big plus. :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
You can certainly stick to the 0.2 u increases but I wouldn't hold a dose longer than 3 cycles if it's not doing the job. You're right about ProZinc's flexibility, though - scheduling, dose changing, etc. Big plus. :)
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Hi Kris. I'm going to have to be in my office a few days next week so I won't be able to test during the day nearly as much. Other than leaving food out (timed feeder) do I need to be worried? Not that I'm expecting this to happen next week but once we "break through" could Beenie drop really low or is it typical for small decrease
Kris & Teasel said:
You can certainly stick to the 0.2 u increases but I wouldn't hold a dose longer than 3 cycles if it's not doing the job. You're right about ProZinc's flexibility, though - scheduling, dose changing, etc. Big plus. :)
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Hi Kris
In your opinion would it help if I changed my increases .6 U? I just went up to .4 U this last increase, all previous were .2 U, but I feel like I'm seeing more pink than yellow and wonder if your suggested .4 u or .6 u increases every 3 cycles would help break through quicker. I'm worried I'll need larger capacity syringes at this rate. Have to get more insulin this week too.
 
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