Rudy - Checking In

[Jen1218]

Hi,

Hope everyone is doing well and all the cats are surfing safely.

Just wanted to check in with an update and maybe ask a few questions...

Rudy seems to be doing ok. Not as active, but I think it's the heat. Nothing outwardly wrong except an episode of diarrhea the other day. Probiotic fixed him.

I just don't understand why his bg refuses to budge at all. For the past 2 weeks it's been nothing but high flat curves. If it moves 30 points in a cycle lately - it's a lot.

Diet is the same. Water consumption and urine production are the same. I've checked for ketones - still negative. I started a new pen. I've also upped his dose twice over the past two weeks according to SLGS. Did not seem to help. (Is his dose too low? Could it actually be too high?)

He will be going to the vet on Monday for a recheck. I'll have her run blood and urine panels. Maybe his gums are inflamed again and he needs another round of abx? Could I get lucky and have it be an easy fix? I'd really like an easy fix.

Should I think about changing insulin? Could he suddenly be insulin resistant?

I realize that many of my questions can't be answered until after Rudy sees the vet Monday afternoon, but maybe a little advice in the meantime will carry me until then.

Thanks,
Jen & Rudy


Previous post

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

Good to hear from you!

My first thought is maybe Rudy didn't hold the reductions. You may need to find his good dose again and then be more aware of if he should take the reduction. I hope others will chip in.

Good luck at the vet.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Hi Jen, good to hear from you. It is not unusual for a kitty to have to go up and down in dose. Just follow what the numbers tell you to do. As an example, take. Look at Libby's Lucy's SS. She went up, down, then all the way back up before going down and OTJ.

I don't think his dose is too high, possibly too low. A vet visit is a good idea, including that look in his mouth. Dental issues are notorious for causing regulation issues. I don't think he would become suddenly insulin resistant without anozther secondary condition at play. Scriches to your sweet boy.

 

[Jen1218]

Hi Jen, good to hear from you. It is not unusual for a kitty to have to go up and down in dose. Just follow what the numbers tell you to do. As an example, take. Look at Libby's Lucy's SS. She went up, down, then all the way back up before going down and OTJ.

I don't think his dose is too high, possibly too low. A vet visit is a good idea, including that look in his mouth. Dental issues are notorious for causing regulation issues. I don't think he would become suddenly insulin resistant without anozther secondary condition at play. Scriches to your sweet boy.

I'm most concerned about his bg not moving for 2 weeks. He hasn't moved more than 30 points or so in any given cycle. I have no issue giving him a higher dose if that's what he needs. (I'd give him the whole damn pen at once if it would help get his bg moving.) I don't want to rush his increases, but I hate waiting a week for an adjustment.

And while the other cat's ss that you provided shows ups and downs in the dose and numbers - the bg wasn't stagnant like Rudy's is right now. That's the part that concerns me.

 

[carfurby (GA)]

I think a vet visit is a good idea. In the meantime, just keep increasing as per SLGS. I know it can be frustrating to seem like you are making progress and then seem like you aren't. If you keep increasing eventually Rudy's numbers will come back down. SLGS can be slower than TR in showing better numbers, but it's the safe way to go if you can't monitor a lot. The heat can definitely sap their energy. I'm glad he seems to be doing okay otherwise. Sending prayers.

 

[Jen1218]

SLGS can be slower than TR in showing better numbers, but it's the safe way to go if you can't monitor a lot.

Thanks. I'm hoping the vet has an answer as to what's going on with him. As for TR/SLGS - the only reason he's SLGS is because of the YA dry food in his diet. I can monitor him as often as he needs. I only slowed down on testing the past few weeks since his numbers are always the same.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Hi Jen, it is sure frustrating when you are seeing progress and then all of a sudden the brakes get put on. Things changed after the last reduction on 6/10 and as others said, it is not unusual for them to dance back and forth between doses some.

If you could eliminate the YA then you could do TR with moving his dose up every three days as you certainly test enough and are available to test enough.

Are you testing for ketones right now? If not, might be a good idea . Hopefully, it will just be something simple like needing a good cleaning. Just gum inflammation is enough to cause higher numbers. A bad tooth took Bubba out of remission the first time.

Good to see you checking in. I have been peaking in on your SS every few days.

 

[Jen1218]

Hi Jen, it is sure frustrating when you are seeing progress and then all of a sudden the brakes get put on. Things changed after the last reduction on 6/10 and as others said, it is not unusual for them to dance back and forth between doses some.

If you could eliminate the YA then you could do TR with moving his dose up every three days as you certainly test enough and are available to test enough.

Are you testing for ketones right now? If not, might be a good idea . Hopefully, it will just be something simple like needing a good cleaning. Just gum inflammation is enough to cause higher numbers. A bad tooth took Bubba out of remission the first time.

Good to see you checking in. I have been peaking in on your SS every few days.

Hi. Thanks for looking in on us. Rudy's been busy redecorating the ss. He's painting it yellow with bright pink accents. Awful color choices if you ask me...

I thought about taking away the dry and switching to TR. I just have to get over the guilt of taking it away and pull the bowl. I feel like I'm depriving them even though I know it's not necessary with all the FF they get nowadays.

I tested him for ketones twice this week. Both readings were 0.4. (Above 0.6 are traces on the blood meter, so he's still in the zero range.) I also tried smelling his breath for that nail polish remover or fruity smell. Rudy wasn't very cooperative and all I smelled was fish breath. (Yuck.)

I'm hoping it's just his gingivitis acting up. He got a round of clindamycin last time and everything was fine. (Except for giving him the meds. That was not fine.) Might be time to look into a cleaning too. I hope my vet does those in her office. I know she doesn't offer full blown dental services, but she should be able to knock him out and clean his teeth. If I thought there was an otc tooth/gum treatment that would help - I'd add that to his regime too.

Hope that you, Bubba and the civvies are well.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

It's not unusual for a cat to like the same two colours for a while until they hit the right dose. For an extreme example, check out Phoebe's SS. Rudy will get his mojo back.

 

[Dyana]

I thought about taking away the dry and switching to TR. I just have to get over the guilt of taking it away and pull the bowl. I feel like I'm depriving them even though I know it's not necessary with all the FF they get nowadays.

Have you tried any freeze dried food to replace the dry?

I hope my vet does those in her office. I know she doesn't offer full blown dental services, but she should be able to knock him out and clean his teeth.

But what if she finds a tooth that needs to come out, then he would have to go to another vet to get that taken care of.

 

[MJW]

Why can't you do TR with dry food? I haven't read that sticky maybe because I'm not using dry food, but I'm curious.

MelanieW's Noah (who is on the 5th day of OTJ trial) uses Primal Freeze Dried with added water. I asked her questions here about the food maybe last week. You could probably find the condo by searching for "Primal". Noah would only eat dry food.

Rudy and my Yum were tracking about the same until the SLGS protocol had you pull way ahead of her and our TR reductions. She has been stuck for a month at 2.75 units. I could be giving her reductions, perhaps failed reductions, if I had her on SLGS. Her nadirs are always below 90, if I convert her AT2 numbers to human meter numbers.

Hope the vet finds a clear answer.

 

[Jen1218]

I have not tried freeze dried food. Food seems pretty pricey for a very small bag. I don't even know which one to buy or if any of my 3 will eat it.

No dry on TR - even YA. I don't know why, but that's what I was told when I first started here. A senior member will have to explain the rationale.

As for the dental - I will discuss it with my vet on Monday. I really don't have a thousand dollars for xrays and such, so I'm hoping he just needs a good cleaning that she can do in her office. (And, yes. A full dental with consult, xrays, sedation and cleaning will be at least that much here.)

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

With dry food, it stays in their system longer. So you could be getting a test number that looks like he is still hanging in higher numbers and base a decision to increase the dose on that number when the number was really just food induced. Then, the new dose could take him way to low. It is a safety thing.

It can be around $800 ish in my area too for a BW, ( they want recent BW before taking an animal under general anesthesia) cleaning and maybe one extraction tops.

Have you looked into Care Credit? It is a credit card you can use at the a lot of vets ( call yours to see if they participate) and it is like 6 months good as cash. You would have 6 months to pay off the bill with no interest. I applied of one before Bubba's eye removal and I seem to always have a balance with 4 animals but knock on wood......I have never paid interest. You can also use the Care Credit card for your own medical and dental if your docs participate. You can apply on line and get a instant approval or decline.

How is Rudy accepting Jolie? It could be some stress of her arrival in the mix.

 

[Jen1218]

With dry food, it stays in their system longer. So you could be getting a test number that looks like he is still hanging in higher numbers and base a decision to increase the dose on that number when the number was really just food induced. Then, the new dose could take him way to low. It is a safety thing.

It can be around $800 ish in my area too for a BW, ( they want recent BW before taking an animal under general anesthesia) cleaning and maybe one extraction tops.

Have you looked into Care Credit? It is a credit card you can use at the a lot of vets ( call yours to see if they participate) and it is like 6 months good as cash. You would have 6 months to pay off the bill with no interest. I applied of one before Bubba's eye removal and I seem to always have a balance with 4 animals but knock on wood......I have never paid interest. You can also use the Care Credit card for your own medical and dental if your docs participate. You can apply on line and get a instant approval or decline.

How is Rudy accepting Jolie? It could be some stress of her arrival in the mix.

Thanks for clarifying the no dry on TR. If freeze dried is acceptable for TR - I might pick up a small bag to try. The cats usually aren't fussy, so they might like it.

It's funny that his numbers have stayed up since Joli got here 2 weeks ago. But I don't think it's stress from her being here at all. She fit right in after 4-5 days. They dine and play together with no issues. Everyone is getting along just fine. I'm also careful not to favor her since she's new. Everyone still gets the same amount of love and attention.

I know about Care Credit. I don't think my vet takes it. Her practice is newly opened and she's a one woman show. No frills, but she knows her stuff. And the pets and I love her.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

I have not tried freeze dried food. Food seems pretty pricey for a very small bag. I don't even know which one to buy or if any of my 3 will eat it.

No dry on TR - even YA. I don't know why, but that's what I was told when I first started here. A senior member will have to explain the rationale.

As for the dental - I will discuss it with my vet on Monday. I really don't have a thousand dollars for xrays and such, so I'm hoping he just needs a good cleaning that she can do in her office. (And, yes. A full dental with consult, xrays, sedation and cleaning will be at least that much here.)

Similar cost here too.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

If freeze dried is acceptable for TR

Yes, it's acceptable as it is completely zero carbs. The YA is also almost zero carbs, might be a fraction of a carb but the company can call it Zero. When the SLGS method was put into place, I don't think YA was on the cat food map yet.

 

[Jen1218]

Yes, it's acceptable as it is completely zero carbs. The YA is also almost zero carbs, might be a fraction of a carb but the company can call it Zero. When the SLGS method was put into place, I don't think YA was on the cat food map yet.

Ahhhh. Wish I had known that freeze dry was zero carb. I never bothered to look into it. I can't keep up with all these new fangled foods for pets. I'll order a small bag from Amazon. As long as the herd likes it - I can probably switch to TR next week.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Ahhhh. Wish I had known that freeze dry was zero carb. I never bothered to look into it. I can't keep up with all these new fangled foods for pets. I'll order a small bag from Amazon. As long as the herd likes it - I can probably switch to TR next week.

My guys would actually eat the freeze dried nuggets of Stella and Chewy as is without being rehydrated. I believe Pet Smart has a cheaper one called Pure Bites? Not sure about that but google it. Also, the dog ones are supposedly cheaper and give you more than the cat ones. Crazy, it's the same food. Apparently dog stuff is cheaper than cat stuff. Go figure.

 

[Jen1218]

My guys would actually eat the freeze dried nuggets of Stella and Chewy as is without being rehydrated. I believe Pet Smart has a cheaper one called Pure Bites? Not sure about that but google it. Also, the dog ones are supposedly cheaper and give you more than the cat ones. Crazy, it's the same food. Apparently dog stuff is cheaper than cat stuff. Go figure.

I ordered the S&C for cats. I'm going to try it as it with the cats to see if they like it. If they don't - then I'll try adding the water. I can also give the dog a few nuggets to see if he likes it then I can feed everybody the same dry.

Added: Pure Bites are treats. Rudy is a big fan.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Pure Bites

Oh, I thought there was a meal one also.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

then I'll try adding the water

if they will only eat it that way, then your gang will eat raw food.

 

[Jen1218]

I guess I'll know more Monday. Vet visit and the new food will be here. Until then - we'll plug away in yellow and pink land.

 

[MJW]

Yes, it's acceptable as it is completely zero carbs.

The Primal freeze dried raw is not zero carbs. It is a balanced diet. Maybe @MélanieW can say how much water she adds to it.

 

[MJW]

PureBite treats are 0 carbs. Yum loves them. I think they were key to her allowing the early AM ear poke. Thank you PureBites!

 

[Jen1218]

The Primal freeze dried raw is not zero carbs. It is a balanced diet. Maybe @MélanieW can say how much water she adds to it.

As long as the cats can have it and it can possibly substitute for the dry - we're good. There's info on the package about how much water to add. I'm going to try giving it to them dry at first.

 

[MélanieW]

Yes, the freeze dried raw is AMAZING. I was able to get Noah's numbers down faster with the TR protocol. It was a life saver for us since Noah did not want to eat wet food AT ALL. I'm not sure about the Stella and Chewy's carb content since the company doesn't share the data (at least not the "real" numbers for as fed analysis). @Djamila posted a thread (http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...g-stella-and-chewys-this-is-important.174963/). Noah seemed to do ok with the Stella and Chewy's freeze-dried duck and chicken, but the turkey would raise his numbers. I feed mainly Primal turkey and chicken and salmon (the data is on the website and the carb content is the same as the raw if you add the recommended amount of water) and Nature's Variety Cat chicken nuggets. Both of these foods don't seem to influence his numbers, but of course ECID.

 

[Jen1218]

Yes, the freeze dried raw is AMAZING. I was able to get Noah's numbers down faster with the TR protocol. It was a life saver for us since Noah did not want to eat wet food AT ALL. I'm not sure about the Stella and Chewy's carb content since the company doesn't share the data (at least not the "real" numbers for as fed analysis). @Djamila posted a thread (http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...g-stella-and-chewys-this-is-important.174963/). Noah seemed to do ok with the Stella and Chewy's freeze-dried duck and chicken, but the turkey would raise his numbers. I feed mainly Primal turkey and chicken and salmon (the data is on the website and the carb content is the same as the raw if you add the recommended amount of water) and Nature's Variety Cat chicken nuggets. Both of these foods don't seem to influence his numbers, but of course ECID.

I cancelled the Stella & Chewy. I'm on the fence with Primal. The little bricks of food don't look small enough to serve as a dry food substitute. It also looks like it would be way too expensive for me to feed to all 3 cats. Thanks for the info.

 

[MélanieW]

I break the nuggets up into a sort of powder and just add water to it, but when I have to be away I just break up bigger pieces and Noah eats it without water. I have a "big" cat (sounds nicer than fat) so he eats about 5 nuggets a day. I think there is about 50 nuggets per bag. It is pretty expensive, but lucky for me my other cat doesn't like the Primal so Noah doesn't have to share. My pet store had small samples of the Primal food. Might be worth a try to see if Rudy likes it.

Sending well wishes to you and Rudy!

 

[Jen1218]

I break the nuggets up into a sort of powder and just add water to it, but when I have to be away I just break up bigger pieces and Noah eats it without water. I have a "big" cat (sounds nicer than fat) so he eats about 5 nuggets a day. I think there is about 50 nuggets per bag. It is pretty expensive, but lucky for me my other cat doesn't like the Primal so Noah doesn't have to share. My pet store had small samples of the Primal food. Might be worth a try to see if Rudy likes it.

Sending well wishes to you and Rudy!

I thought I could feed it open bowl like I do with the dry food now, but I'm not sure if it's going to work for us in that way. I still have an almost full bag of YA, so I'll think about it while the cats work their way through the rest of that bag. Good vibes to you and Noah. Thanks again for the info.

 

[MJW]

I might try the Primal in the vain hope it will give Yum a chart like Noah's!!!