Is this a crazy theory?

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Catdaddy87

Catdaddy87

Member Since 2017
Sam was recently diagnosed with diabetes in April. I am kind of second guessing that diagnosis now. I will list a few facts to get your opinions below:
  1. Sam was taken to the vet because of excessive drinking and urination. (Usual sign for UTI or FD)
  2. Sam was overweight by a few pounds and has only eaten dry food at this point.
  3. Sam tested positive for an bladder infection and absolutely hates the vet and gets extremely stressed.
  4. Sam was not cooperative for a glucose curve and the highest BG level I know of at the vet was 360.
  5. Sam was given Orbax for the infection and told to give 1 unit of Vetsulin 2x a day.
Fast forward about 2 weeks and she is still urinating a lot and we have not started testing BG levels yet, just following vet's orders. Vet says to up her insulin to 2 units daily.
  1. Sam stops eating which is very unusual for her. Seems kind of lethargic.
  2. Test her BG for the first time and it is 235. (She hadn't eaten all day or had a shot)
  3. Take Sam to normal vet again to test her urine and she has a secondary infection and ulcers in her mouth. Liver levels are a little high but she has not been eating.
  4. Vet says to go home and give antibiotic Veraflox try to get her to eat. (Not too happy with the inaction of the vet)
Saturday morning Sam is still not eating so I call another vet and take her in.
  1. Sam now hasn't eaten much for 2.5 days and is clearly not feeling well.
  2. New vet confirms the same symptoms and ulcers. Suggest that 2 units was too much and may have started the whole rollercoaster of appetite issues/ulcers etc.
  3. Sam gets admitted for an overnight stay for an IV, pain meds, and syringe feeding. Sam's BG test never crosses 300 while she is with the new vet and is syringe fed a few times. No insulin was given.
Sam is back home and eating only Hill's A/D by syringe 3 times a day and no insulin.
  1. Her BG has been pretty steady at around 230-250 with no insulin since she has been home.
  2. Her ulcers seem to be getting better and she is actually wanting food at her feedings.
I know this was a long post but could it be that Sam was never really diabetic but due to the infection and stress levels at the vet, her BG was over 300 and a false reading?

Is it a reasonable theory that now that she has lost a few pounds and is possibly ready to switch to wet food finally that we may be able to keep Bg levels around 150 without insulin and just a low carb diet?
 
Wow! This is a great synopsis of Sam's recent history. I wish other people looking for advice did it this way. :) I'm glad she's showing signs of improvement.

Some of my thoughts:
  • vet stress/infection could well cause high BGs
  • losing a little weight and switching to a low carb wet food diet will help her BG (the low carb diet will help weight loss)
  • I think A/D is fairly high in carbs/calories so if her BG her stayed in the mid 200s with no insulin, that's a good sign that she might respond well to diet control
  • as her appetite improves and she begins to eat on her own you can try phasing in low carb wet food while tracking her BG
  • once she's eating LC wet food willingly on her own and feeling better the BG numbers will be your guide in deciding about insulin
  • it's possible she might need a small dose like 0.25 - 0.50 u but it's too soon to tell.
 
The canned Hill's AD is about 13% carbs and has about 180 calories per 5.5 oz tin. It is a good food for syringe feeding because of the "mushy" composition, but is not necessary as a regular part of the diet. I have used it successfully with both my kitties when appetite problems became a concern.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Wow! This is a great synopsis of Sam's recent history. I wish other people looking for advice did it this way. :) I'm glad she's showing signs of improvement.

Some of my thoughts:
  • vet stress/infection could well cause high BGs
  • losing a little weight and switching to a low carb wet food diet will help her BG (the low carb diet will help weight loss)
  • I think A/D is fairly high in carbs/calories so if her BG her stayed in the mid 200s with no insulin, that's a good sign that she might respond well to diet control
  • as her appetite improves and she begins to eat on her own you can try phasing in low carb wet food while tracking her BG
  • once she's eating LC wet food willingly on her own and feeling better the BG numbers will be your guide in deciding about insulin
  • it's possible she might need a small dose like 0.25 - 0.50 u but it's too soon to tell.
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Thanks! I try to be through without being too long to read. lol

I know A/D isn't optimal carbs, its just what she will eat right now and easy on the ulcers. She is starting to eat it out of the bowl instead of syringe feeding so I'm hoping the silver lining in this whole situation is that she will now eat low carb wet food.
It would be great if we could get her down to barely any insulin or none at all. I know it will be a while before we can make that decision but from my research here, it seems like an actual possibility now instead of insulin forever. lol
 
Catdaddy87 said:
Thanks! I try to be through without being too long to read. lol

I know A/D isn't optimal carbs, its just what she will eat right now and easy on the ulcers. She is starting to eat it out of the bowl instead of syringe feeding so I'm hoping the silver lining in this whole situation is that she will now eat low carb wet food.
It would be great if we could get her down to barely any insulin or none at all. I know it will be a while before we can make that decision but from my research here, it seems like an actual possibility now instead of insulin forever. lol
Click to expand...
No problem with feeding A/D right now. Getting her to eat trumps the carb level for sure. :)
 
Very nice post! I like what Kris said :)
I was thinking along the lines that it, also, could have been infection/stress influences and she was in the pre-diabetic stage. Hopefully as her infections go away and she feels better you will end up with a diet controlled diabetic :bighug:. Keep us updated :cat:
 
I don't want to start another thread so I will ask here.

I have had no problems with doing the BG test on Sam the last few days and her ear bled easily. All day yesterday every time I would poke her, it wouldn't bleed at all or not enough. Even after "milking" her ear and trying to push out a little more.

I am using the same lancets as before which are extra fine 30G and the same technique. I warm her ear with a damp hot washcloth before the stick.

Any thoughts? Was the pain meds she was on helping her bleed easier?
 
Catdaddy87 said:
I don't want to start another thread so I will ask here.

I have had no problems with doing the BG test on Sam the last few days and her ear bled easily. All day yesterday every time I would poke her, it wouldn't bleed at all or not enough. Even after "milking" her ear and trying to push out a little more.

I am using the same lancets as before which are extra fine 30G and the same technique. I warm her ear with a damp hot washcloth before the stick.

Any thoughts? Was the pain meds she was on helping her bleed easier?
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Did you try both ears? Some of us find one ear bleeds easier than the other. I'll go through spells where I'm a little less successful, even after a long time at this. It's usually a case of ear temperature for my guy. Try other warming techniques like putting hot water in a small tightly sealable small pill bottle or similar. Many of us make what we call a "rice sock" - old, clean sock with about 1/2 cup dry rice in the toe, tied off and heated in the microwave until very warm but touchable. It also might be a good idea to get some thicker lancets to have in your supplies for times like these - 26 to 28 gauge works.

I have no clue whether the pain meds are a factor.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Did you try both ears? Try other warming techniques like putting hot water in a small tightly sealable small pill bottle or similar. Many of us make what we call a "rice sock" - old, clean sock with about 1/2 cup dry rice in the toe, tied off and heated in the microwave until very warm but touchable. It also might be a good idea to get some thicker lancets to have in your supplies for times like these - 26 to 28 gauge works.

I have no clue whether the pain meds are a factor.
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Yea I tried both ears and had no luck. I will pick up some bigger lancets on the way home and give that a shot. I noticed somewhere else that it could possibly be because of dehydration. I will check her gums for that when I get home and monitor her litter box. I noticed she hasn't been drinking as much but chalked that up to the infection going away and the wet food supplementing.
 
Catdaddy87 said:
Yea I tried both ears and had no luck. I will pick up some bigger lancets on the way home and give that a shot. I noticed somewhere else that it could possibly be because of dehydration. I will check her gums for that when I get home and monitor her litter box. I noticed she hasn't been drinking as much but chalked that up to the infection going away and the wet food supplementing.
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Yes, dehydration can be a factor. If she's eating wet food, you can add some warm water to it to make a sort of "stew". Good way to get extra water in.
 
Switch to a 28 gauge lancet.
It made ALL the difference in the world in the amount of blood I can get from my little guy quickly without it being traumatic. 30 gauge was to small and I would have to poke him 2 or more times to get him to bleed.
 
I think switching your ear warming tool is a good idea as well. While blood doesn't mix with water, the damp washcloth could still dilute the sample on the strip. Easiest fix is to put it in a plastic bag :). Let us know if her gums show signs of dehydration and you can always try the Snap test. Pinch some skin on her scruff or mid back and see if it goes flat immediately. If it takes a couple seconds or stays up, she could be dehydrated. Can test the back of your hand the same way. Let us know :cat:
 
Yong said:
I think switching your ear warming tool is a good idea as well. While blood doesn't mix with water, the damp washcloth could still dilute the sample on the strip. Easiest fix is to put it in a plastic bag :). Let us know if her gums show signs of dehydration and you can always try the Snap test. Pinch some skin on her scruff or mid back and see if it goes flat immediately. If it takes a couple seconds or stays up, she could be dehydrated. Can test the back of your hand the same way. Let us know :cat:
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Sam had a follow up visit with the new vet and my wife and I both really like him. He seems very thorough and concerned for Sam's well being. He gave her some SubQ liquids just to stay on top of the dehydration game and put in some B12 and one other thing I forgot. Sam really perked up after the SubQ and B12 is is finally back to her normal personality.

It doesn't seem her appetite or thirst has really picked up or returned to normal. I assume both being decreased could be due to her BG levels being better regulated as well as the wet food over dry.

I changed to the rice sock for her BG tests and I'm still not having much luck for whatever reason. The bigger lancets didn't help much either.
 
Catdaddy87 said:
She hasn't had one done yet but her new vet wants to do one in two weeks.
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I would get one just to double check. Jones has roughly the same numbers BG wise due to the prednisolone steroid but his last fructosamine test shows he is no longer diabetic. I think there is a little flaw in there as I think of him as tightly controlled vs. as in remission however it does go to show it isn't always about just the BG numbers, other factors and clinical signs need to be taken in account.

Good luck!
 
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