? Griff kitty dosing and food question

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primalkitty

primalkitty

Member Since 2017
I took Griff to the vet last week for an insulin refill and a recheck. The vet loved the chart that I printed out for him!! I told him I was feeding low carb canned only and some raw meats. He said I need to be feeding Griff the DM kibble because it helps regulate the ups and downs. I didn't buy any. It is so expensive and wanted to get input from you all.

They did a BS test and he was 430 (stressed!). I didn't bring my meter with me :banghead: but the vet sent home a vial of blood for me to test at home. I got 360.

I bought a new meter because mine was so old and the numbers were so different from the vet and my meter. New meter doesn't seem too much different than old one.

I have done a couple of mid-day tests. Griff's numbers just won't go down. Is it time to increase again?

Thanks!
 
Hey Jessie, there isn't really any proof that he needs the DM. There are so many sugar kitties on this forum who are just on canned or a homemade diet ;). I noticed you didn't try 2.75U, was there any specific reason? It's also a little more difficult deciding to increase since we don't know where most of the doses took him mid cycle :bookworm:. Let's see if the others can see something I can't with your data though :)
 
Yong said:
Hey Jessie, there isn't really any proof that he needs the DM. There are so many sugar kitties on this forum who are just on canned or a homemade diet ;). I noticed you didn't try 2.75U, was there any specific reason? It's also a little more difficult deciding to increase since we don't know where most of the doses took him mid cycle :bookworm:. Let's see if the others can see something I can't with your data though :)
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I don't know why I didn't try the 2.75:confused: I get so overwhelmed with this.........not seeing him doing better. Maybe I just thought a little more would help bring him down. Thinking about it, that wasn't a very educated idea.
 
It's ok :bighug:. It's possible he needs another increase. We hate seeing our babies not feel good. Any chance you could try to get some before bed tests (for many of us that is between +2 and +4) and extras on the weekends? Assuming you work M-F full time job type thing :)
 
Yong said:
It's ok :bighug:. It's possible he needs another increase. We hate seeing our babies not feel good. Any chance you could try to get some before bed tests (for many of us that is between +2 and +4) and extras on the weekends? Assuming you work M-F full time job type thing :)
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Thank you :cat:

I don't work a regular hours, I am a farmer :woot: So, I can do other times and weekends. I dose him about 8:30 pm and go to bed at 10:00. I can do one before bed but that is just +1.5....or I could try to stay up a little later:D
 
oOoO neat! And lots of hard work! Whenever is fine, any extra tests during his mid cycle can be helpful :). From the couple curves you've done, it looks like he hit typical nadir time (lowest BG, peak insulin action) for Prozinc, between +5 and +7. With Prozinc dosing, we take into consideration Pre shots AND nadirs :cat:.

Also, was just reminded of this, you don't rub the injection site after dosing do you?
 
Yong said:
oOoO neat! And lots of hard work! Whenever is fine, any extra tests during his mid cycle can be helpful :). From the couple curves you've done, it looks like he hit typical nadir time (lowest BG, peak insulin action) for Prozinc, between +5 and +7. With Prozinc dosing, we take into consideration Pre shots AND nadirs :cat:.

Also, was just reminded of this, you don't rub the injection site after dosing do you?
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No, I don't rub the site. I just tent his skin and shoot.
 
Wow! Farming, huh? I bet you're exhausted every night!

Well whenever you can pop in to the house and grab a test will be super helpful. A curve will definitely help you to see what's going on with him.
 
Hey! You live in Washington! I'm over in Seattle, but you're the first Washingtonian I've found on here! And I love your signature on here. I think it's the best one I've read. Is Griffith indoor only? Or indoor/outdoor?

I agree with Kris to hold off on any changes for a couple of days and get some mid-cycle tests, and then we'll have a better sense of what needs to happen next.

We all get overwhelmed with this sometimes. Please keep checking in here - vent, ask for help, share stories - whatever you need. We'd love to help you get this figured out.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Farming is SUCH hard work! Hats off to you! I agree about the need for mid cycle tests. A curve at 3 u would give good info. I really can't say at this point whether he has to go up in dose or not.
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Yah, it is hard work...a labor of love!!!

I have a few new numbers. I probably won't be able to do a curve for a few days.

Thank you!
 
Djamila said:
Hey! You live in Washington! I'm over in Seattle, but you're the first Washingtonian I've found on here! And I love your signature on here. I think it's the best one I've read. Is Griffith indoor only? Or indoor/outdoor?

I agree with Kris to hold off on any changes for a couple of days and get some mid-cycle tests, and then we'll have a better sense of what needs to happen next.

We all get overwhelmed with this sometimes. Please keep checking in here - vent, ask for help, share stories - whatever you need. We'd love to help you get this figured out.
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A Washingtonian, cool! Thanks, I am sure my husband would question why he is at the bottom of the list:p I have a few new numbers but will have to wait to do the curve for a few days.

And, THANK YOU! :bighug:
 
Djamila said:
If you can even get one more mid-cycle today, sometime between +4 and +7, I think we can make a suggestion for a next step. What day do you think you could do a curve?
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Shoot, didn't get home from my Dr appt in time to do a 4 or 7! I can try for a +6 or +7 tomorrow. We offer tours here on the farm Fri-Sun, so doing mid cycles are a little harder. I hope to do a curve on Monday.

Thank you!
 
From 12 - 3 I am with people and cannot. So, hoping to do a test right before and right after. That would be a 3+ and a 6+. Would that be helpful?
 
Okay, got the extra readings today.

402 at 8:45
344 at 11:45
269 at 1:45 (shoot, just realized that this is 5 not 6.....my math skills are lacking!!!)

Whatcha think about dosing?
 
I have not tested for ketones. Not sure how I can wing that one with 6 of the 7 cats all using the same litter box in spite of there being 9 litter boxes in the house.
 
Most kitties have a fairly regular pattern to their day as far as eating/grooming/sleeping/peeing/pooping. You may need to start carefully studying Griffith's schedule and then camp out near the litter box to grab the test. Not all day, obviously, but if you can start to figure out his rhythm, it can help you focus the ketone-test effort. Mostly though, I'd just say to increase the dose as Yong suggested, and make sure he's eating. If he stops eating the ketone test becomes much more critical.
 
Djamila said:
Most kitties have a fairly regular pattern to their day as far as eating/grooming/sleeping/peeing/pooping. You may need to start carefully studying Griffith's schedule and then camp out near the litter box to grab the test. Not all day, obviously, but if you can start to figure out his rhythm, it can help you focus the ketone-test effort. Mostly though, I'd just say to increase the dose as Yong suggested, and make sure he's eating. If he stops eating the ketone test becomes much more critical.
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Thank you, I will do that. I increased the dosage tonite. His appetite is excellent.
 
primalkitty said:
I have not tested for ketones. Not sure how I can wing that one with 6 of the 7 cats all using the same litter box in spite of there being 9 litter boxes in the house.
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I only have three kitties but have learned Teasel's litter box habits. Helps a lot in getting the urine ketone tests done.
 
He might have gone lower overnight but who's to say? He's had 3 cycles at this dose so you can try 3.5 u this AM. It's possible that he's stuck in high numbers because of glucose toxicity that builds over time if the dose is too low. Their body becomes less responsive to insulin. It's reversible with careful dose increases and you'll eventually get to a "breakthrough" dose. It requires more monitoring, though, and he can't be left at an ineffective dose too long. That only makes it worse. If you cam manage one extra test daytime and before bed that would help.
 
Does he ever go outside? Is there any chance he could be getting into the barn cats' food? the dogs'? a mouse? Also, does he ever eat within two hours of the pre-shot times? That can inflate the numbers.

Mostly though, it's probably what Kris said and will just need some steady increases and additional tests for a little while.

I wonder if there is another shot schedule that might allow you to get a few tests in a little easier for your work schedule? I test/feed/shoot Sam at 4:30am/pm so that I can get a +3 before I leave for work at 7:30. Then it gives me 4-5 hours in the evening before bedtime. Getting up so early before work took some adjustment for my schedule, but it lets me manage his shots and tests a lot better and with less disruption to the rest of my day.
 
Any extra tests you get will definitely help! I was a big "before bed" tester in my day...and whenever I got up in the middle of the night for personal reasons, I would run downstairs and do a quick test. There were times Gypsy didn't even move!! :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
He might have gone lower overnight but who's to say? He's had 3 cycles at this dose so you can try 3.5 u this AM. It's possible that he's stuck in high numbers because of glucose toxicity that builds over time if the dose is too low. Their body becomes less responsive to insulin. It's reversible with careful dose increases and you'll eventually get to a "breakthrough" dose. It requires more monitoring, though, and he can't be left at an ineffective dose too long. That only makes it worse. If you cam manage one extra test daytime and before bed that would help.
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Ok, I will increase dosage and mid-day testing. Thank you.

Trying not to be scared :nailbiting:
 
Djamila said:
Does he ever go outside? Is there any chance he could be getting into the barn cats' food? the dogs'? a mouse? Also, does he ever eat within two hours of the pre-shot times? That can inflate the numbers.

Mostly though, it's probably what Kris said and will just need some steady increases and additional tests for a little while.

I wonder if there is another shot schedule that might allow you to get a few tests in a little easier for your work schedule? I test/feed/shoot Sam at 4:30am/pm so that I can get a +3 before I leave for work at 7:30. Then it gives me 4-5 hours in the evening before bedtime. Getting up so early before work took some adjustment for my schedule, but it lets me manage his shots and tests a lot better and with less disruption to the rest of my day.
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No, strictly indoors. I don't leave the dog kibble down and there is no other food that he can get to. I will get some more testing done. Since I am on the farm and don't work a 9-5'er I am more flexible with timing. Currently doing shots at 8:30am and 8:30 pm.

Thank you!
 
Also, the vet recommended a diabetes management kibble to help stabilize his BS. After all the problems with what I thought was a healthy kibble, I am reluctant to ever feed kibble again. I am transitioning the dogs off of kibble, too. But, if it can help stabilize for now, I would consider. Thoughts?
 
primalkitty said:
Also, the vet recommended a diabetes management kibble to help stabilize his BS. After all the problems with what I thought was a healthy kibble, I am reluctant to ever feed kibble again. I am transitioning the dogs off of kibble, too. But, if it can help stabilize for now, I would consider. Thoughts?
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That thinking might relate to the effect of fiber on BG regulation. I think it helps dogs but my impression is that the research has moved beyond that for cats. Low carb wet food is where it's at. That's what my vet prescribed.
 
Depending on which prescription brand of kibble, they are like 18% carbs. Way too much! I think the best tool for getting some movement toward regulation is going to be doing what you're doing now: getting more mid-cycle tests and adjusting the dose accordingly. It's a slow process, but it works.

primalkitty said:
Oh, and thank you all for the help. I don't know what I (and 100's of others on this forum) would do without you all!!!!:bighug:
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We have all been in that place! In no time at all you'll be able to help out other people! :)
 
A lot of vets prescribe kibble, but it doesn't really help regulation. Regulation is achieved with the low carb food, and steady insulin increases until you reach the ideal dose. Imagine what would happen if you gave kibble that was higher in carbs, then reached an ideal dose...and then transitioned to wet food. The ideal dose would suddenly be too high! I think you'll get there faster if you stick with the low carb wet food. :)
 
I'm wondering if it is fiber related as well :bookworm: and you can add fiber naturally with plain pumpkin - No sugar, spices, or additives. Some kitties do not like pumpkin :cat:
 
Yep, mine didn't like pumpkin...but were fine with it added to their food. Just wouldn't eat it plain.
 
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