NEWBIE: Concerned on proper feeding schedule!

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Pat & Phil

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Brand new to Feline Diabetes. Have read many of the FD SITE articles and FAQ.

Baxter is a 14 ½ YR. male,10.5 lbs. diagnosed on the past Friday 6/2/17. His senior blood panel showed all very good except for a high blood sugar count but NO ketones, kidney or liver issues. No idea on BG level as was not told and at that early learning stage would have gone over our head.

For the past few months he has been excessively hungry, thirsty and urinating way too much and too often. 2 months ago I switched from a diet of ½ kibble ½ wet food to ALL wet ( Fancy Feast classic).

He made a big improvement over time in less urination but still constant hunger and had lost 5 lbs. over a year, so I took him in reluctantly afraid of the outcome.

He was started on PZI, syringe U40-1/2cc filled to #2 line (is this 2 units?)2 x daily.. The Vet wanted to feed extra calories to gain weight back. I am feeding 3 3oz cans 273 calories, which he is eating with no issue or vomiting.

In the past 3 days his overall appearance, stature and general being have improved tremendously!!! The urination and thirst appear to be normal! Am waiting for the BG monitor from Amazon. I know it is $ but this Friday he has an appointment for a curve.


HOWEVER – my great concern and fear is his eating schedule. (plan to call Vet tomorrow).

They said to inject while feeding ( schedule is 5:30 AM,PM ). No problem. We were feeding 1 ½ can each time but approximately 5.5 hours later he was begging for food. Kept us up all weekend with a total loss of sleep.

Sunday we switched to 1 can at 5:30AM, ½ can at 11:30AM same for PM. Worked out perfectly with no begging and in the absence of a BG count seems quite fine, comfortable and happy.

WILL THE SNACK FEEDINGS ALTER, DAMAGE OR NEGATE HIS RECOVERY AND INSULIN????? THROW OFF HIS BG LEVEL? Have read some feed frequently and some just twice. The Vet made a big deal about 2 x only.

We have adhered strictly to the times and caloric portion control. So far and so early quite pleased with his results.


P&P
 
Hi there, Pat & Phil, and welcome! There is no problem at all with feeding multiple times per day. The twice/day thing is an older way of thinking about feline diabetes, but most of us find that our cats are more comfortable with snacks. Depending on the cat, some do need the timing of the snacks worked around their curve (the way the cat responds to the insulin at different times during the day). As you begin home testing and learn Baxter's patterns, we can help you get that figured out.

Starting on 2 units/day is a rather high starting dose, and the curve done in the vet's office will likely be quite a bit inflated. If the vet tells you to lower the dose, go for it, but if the vet tells you to raise the dose, I would caution you against it until you are able to get some good data at home while Baxter is relaxed. Vets have a tendency to overdose and then we end up with cats on here having hypoglycemic episodes. We would prefer to help you and Baxter avoid that!

Congrats on getting a meter and being willing to start testing at home! It really is the best way to help keep your kitty safe and hopefully heading toward better health. Please ask as many questions as you have!
 
Mine is eating six times a day right now using an automatic feeder (the PetSafe 5), and it actually seems to be helping her personally. She doesn't get such a big food binge all at once at shot times, so it helps her come down quicker. Prior to that, she was eating four times a day, and prior to THAT, it was two times as the vet wanted. But two times just didn't work for her. Plus, she was starving all the time between meals, and I almost think the hunger stress might've raised her BG too. @Djamila is right though; you can only really learn the optimal schedule for your cat once you can home test. :cat: The most important thing to remember is no food for at least two hours prior to pre-shot BG tests, once you start doing them. Otherwise the numbers could be food influenced.
 
Ahh!!!!! We are really, really relieved to hear this! Was very worried about the feed schedule. Just absolutely amazed at the quick positive difference in his overall picture. How quickly his physical downturn stopped. A week ago, we felt it was the end. Will start testing this weekend after the curve, which I don't want to spend $ but so new at this will go for it once. One question: he goes to sleep pretty soon after he eats.
Normal? Been so long since he had a regular schedule I forget.
The information this board and site offers is amazing and has immensely helped!
 
Does he seem to feel okay when he sleeps post-food? Mine has a predictable routine where she eats, then finds her favourite blanket to knead on while she purrs and drools happily (gross but it means she's enjoying the squishy blanket), then immediately goes into a food coma for a bit. :D I've always just figured it's like when we eat a satisfying meal and feel like taking a nap after.
 
Oh, also worth mentioning is that uncontrolled diabetes will make them feel hungry all the time. They can get pretty ravenous and even try to get into garbage or unwashed dishes in their foraging. So once they get some food in them, it might make them more relaxed for a while, you know?
 
Currently, Tigress (non-sugar cat but still) is happily sleeping on my feet post-breakfast. :) I think it depends on the cat, but I wouldn't worry about it unless he seems like he's in pain or something.

Home testing is a great way to save money on all those vet visits! Please do be cautious about raising the dose based on the vet numbers. Cats get pretty stressed at the vet (it's weird, they're in a cage all day, some stranger is poking them, they hear noises from other animals, it's not home with their beans and their stuff, etc) so the numbers are often over 100 points higher than at home. We'll be happy to help you learn to home test when you're ready and happy to help you figure out what to do with the data you get!

As a starting point, you might want to figure out where your testing "spot" will be. Ours was on a towel by the fridge. Others use a counter or table or back of the couch or something. Starting bringing Baxter there several times a day, petting him and playing with his ears, then giving a treat. Do this as often as possible for the next week and he'll get used to the idea that when he goes there, his ears get touched and he gets a special treat! Just a bit of desensitization so that the tests aren't totally brand new to him.
 
Baxter seems fine this morning. Figure it's just like when I have a meal and get drowsy. I am still trying to understand the curve and what BG swings do. I have read that approximately 6-8 hours after his shot will be the lowest BG reading and to watch for a hypo. That is when he gets hungry and we feed. (6 hours).
1. Does the lower BG make him hungry or is it he just needs a meal?
2. Does this snack make the BG go up? If so, is that detrimental?
"Won't have my meter till Friday".
 
Esp while you are trying to get him to gain weight feed him as much as he wants. As the others said you can feed him in between shot times, however once you get your meter to home test (yeah!) don't feed two hours prior to the preshot test so the number won't be food influenced.
 
Lower BG CAN make them hungry...cats sometimes can feel themselves going low and attempt to self steer with food. It doesn't mean he is going too low though. A hypo can happen then or any time really. Not trying to scare you or say Baxter is going hypo, just something to know. As you learn to home test, you'll figure out his patterns. Until then, just keep an eye on him to make sure he's not acting super strange or anything. My guess is that Baxter is just hungry at that point. A LOT of kitties are, especially when their FD isn't under control. Heck, even my non sugar kitties want a snack when I'm home and they've eaten all their food! FD kitties need more food due to the fact that their body can't use it the way it should..that's why they are hungrier. That's probably why he wants that mid-cycle feeding. That and he is USED to having food out all the time, so he isn't happy with the change!

Snacks can make BG go up, but as Janet said that's not a problem. When you start home-testing, just pull the food 2 hours before AM and PM shots and you're good to go!

What other questions do you have? Theres's a TON to learn and we're happy to help however we can!
 
I have nothing to add to the excellent advice you've been given already other than to say welcome! FDMB is a vast store of help and info and this ProZinc forum, though small, is very friendly and has a great group of experienced care givers. :)
 
@Rachel gave some great tips on home testing. If Baxter turns out to be one of those cats who won't sit still enough to safely do a test, you can also consider wrapping him up in a blanket so he can't really move. I still do this with mine because she gets grumpy about being forced to sit still and will wiggle around too much. There's still a certain amount of grumbling, but she's fine as soon as it's done.

As for treats, look into 100% freeze-dried meat ones. I can't advise on American brands since I'm in the UK, but someone else can probably suggest something suitable. They really do help cats to get used to all the poking. :D

And yeah, just to reiterate again, uncontrolled diabetics can feel like they're starving all the time, so wanting to eat isn't unusual for them in and of itself. Baxter's nadir (lowest point in the cycle) might also not be at the time you'd expect. Six is the "ideal" norm, but for instance, sometimes cats have it as early as four hours, some even have it at seven hours, and so on. When Freya was on Caninsulin, the vet insisted her nadir would be from six to eight hours after her shot. In reality it was at four. :rolleyes: That type of insulin is infamous for that though. Nadir can also sometimes shift a little from day to day. You'll learn so much once you're testing him yourself, and what Rachel said was very true: your own results will be more accurate to Baxter's reality than the vet's.
 
Gee, thank you all. This is a fantastic response. we have always had cats but never experienced diabetes.
Gained so much more knowledgeable about FD that we will monitor our own intake of carbs and sweets even more.
This forum has helped tremendously in relieving our anxiety. Will update on the curve results and my initial
BG meter tests ( read the instructions, watched the videos, still terrified)!
 
The first few tests were scary for all of us! That's totally normal. We have lots of tips and tricks to help you out along the way. It's also totally normal to have a hard time getting blood to come out the first few times. Some cats bleed great, some not so much. Don't hesitate to post any questions or problems that arise!

As you start to collect data, we really recommend you put it into a spreadsheet like the ones you can find located in our signatures. Below is a link to set one up for Baxter. The color coding is all automatic when you enter a number and it makes finding patterns and making dosing decisions much easier! If tech stuff isn't your thing, we have some folks around here who can help get it set up for you, so take a look at the directions and if it seems like too much, just post here and ask for help!

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

I second Rachel's comment above about starting some desensitization practice now, and do it as many times each day as you can until you get your meter. It helps to build a positive association to having you messing with his ears and will help make the testing a little easier on all of you!
 
JanetNJ said:
Esp while you are trying to get him to gain weight feed him as much as he wants. As the others said you can feed him in between shot times, however once you get your meter to home test (yeah!) don't feed two hours prior to the preshot test so the number won't be food influenced.
Click to expand...
 
I was just reviewing the spreadsheet page and comparing to others. Bit overwhelming at first but technically I
have been on the internet prior to windows 3.1!
What is concerning, is the "amount of testing" and the self administered changes in dosage. I understand the concept but in no way was prepared for it! After conversing with the Vet and various technicians, we were under the impression you tested BG once or twice a week, do a curve monthly and basically just shoot 2 x daily
and that's all there was. Will discuss with the office after the curve.
 
We think of it this way: You wouldn't give insulin to a human child without testing BG before every shot ;). Our fur babies are no different and has saved many a kitty's life by doing so. Don't be overwhelmed by some of our testing amounts, we are little data junkies, but you should test at least twice a day: Morning and Evening Pre-shot tests (AMPS / PMPS) with no food eaten for 2 hours prior. This is to make sure kitty's BG is safe to receive insulin :cat:. We think many Vet's don't push home testing because we pet parents are already a bit overwhelmed at diagnosis. The few I've read about here who have a Vet that supports home testing like we do, tell their client member many do not keep up with it once they leave.

If you wouldn't mind setting up your Signature with some information about Baxter it's super helpful (light grey text that appears below each of our posts) and helps those of us with bad memories :smuggrin::
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/
It's also where you will post your Spreadsheet (SS) link if you decide to make one.

Lastly, I like to give this to new members to read over ahead of time and be prepared, but I hope you never need it. Home testing and doing minimum tests can help prevent needing this even more: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
 
A lot of vets don't suggest or advocate home testing...we have no idea why. We look at it this way: you surely wouldn't give your child a shot of insulin without checking BG first, so why in the world would you do so to your cat? And for Prozinc, we dose based on preshot and nadir (mid cycle) numbers. So you need to get some mid cycle tests in there to be sure your kitty isn't dropping low and then bouncing back up.

Please note, if you've been looking at our spreadsheets: we are data JUNKIES. You really don't have to test as often as many of us do. Everyone here started out not wanting to home test and then found out how easy it was and how much control it gave you over your cat, and how much better they felt knowing that they could see how their cat was doing at any given time...and the data collection turned into a mania. :rolleyes: While preshot tests are an absolute must and nadirs are needed when you can get them, you don't have to take 8 tests every day. You might WANT to eventually, but it isn't necessary.

As for the changes in dosing, we do that because we have the data at home. I handed my vet a copy of my ss once and she said "well you're doing everything exactly right and I wouldn't change a thing!" She had a diabetic dog, so she knew what she was talking about. The changes we make are very small and they are entirely based on your data...plus you have complete control over that. We offer opinions and you decide if you are okay with that or not.

Why not give your vet the web address to this forum? She could sign on and talk to us if she wants or just check it out and see what we suggest.
 
Thank you. Will get the spreadsheet, signature and profile setup by tomorrow PM. I do intend to test.
Be interesting to see the Vet's reaction when I mention the board, testing and spreadsheet. Think she was already leary of me with the amount of questions I had.:nailbiting:
 
Blair & Freya said:
They can get pretty ravenous and even try to get into garbage or unwashed dishes in their foraging.
Click to expand...
I have pictures of Chuck in the recycling bin looking for scraps in his empty (and rinsed) cat food cans!
My old vet wasn't too keen on home testing but my new vet is basically just cheering us on from the sideline.
The spreadsheet is a great tool to help see trends.
 
Haha my vet was the same! Since my old vet left the practice she was at, I switched to a new one that has several different vets...I've been asked there several times if I am nurse or a medical tech of some sort due to the questions I ask! I go in there armed with so much info and then ask for copies of the test reports...and I don't think they've ever had someone come in and say "so what's her urine specific gravity? What was her white cell count? Can I please get bupe for pain management?". The vet has learned to accept me over time though and just knows when he comes in the room with any results that I don't want "she has an infection, give her this". I want specific information on what all her tests were and I want to know WHAT he plans to give her and why. I think they really just aren't used to such hands on owners as us!
 
Pat & Phil said:
Thank you. Will get the spreadsheet, signature and profile setup by tomorrow PM. I do intend to test.
Be interesting to see the Vet's reaction when I mention the board, testing and spreadsheet. Think she was already leary of me with the amount of questions I had.:nailbiting:
Click to expand...

I have several friends who are vets, and I have shared this website with them all. They now give it to all of their clients with diabetic cats!
 
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