? 5/30/17,Sprocket,Amps/307.+3.3/160.+4.6/143.+5.6/116, +6.5/87.+8.5/88.PMPS/107,+1hr/101, puked

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Wendy&Neko said:
Renal threshold is ECID
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Question: does this mean diabetic cats may not, at times have sugar in their urine? Or do they always have sugar in their urine?

My vet said my cat will always have sugar in his urine since he is diabetic and the only thing that changes is amount of sugar in urine.

If every cat is different, the vet says 120 is renal threshold for all cats, so is he wrong and that isn't a real thing?

Oy....I'm confused.

Thank you
 
apple said:
Question: does this mean diabetic cats may not, at times have sugar in their urine? Or do they always have sugar in their urine?

My vet said my cat will always have sugar in his urine since he is diabetic and the only thing that changes is amount of sugar in urine.

If every cat is different, the vet says 120 is renal threshold for all cats, so is he wrong and that isn't a real thing?

Oy....I'm confused.

Thank you
Click to expand...

Ok. Now that you ask those questions...I am not sure either.
My mind was on ketones in urine but thats not right.
Wow. I need some sleep.
Hope someone will answer...
 
apple said:
Why don't you believe? Did you read or experience something that lead you to that conclusion?
Thank you
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I'm an RN that has worked with a lot of diabetics. When the somogyi effect was proposed, it was really a theory only. At the time, there wasn't any studies indicating that it actually happened. Medical professionals latched on to the idea and ran with it, even without the evidence. Currently, there is a lot of controversy in medicine about this issue and some new research doesn't really support the concept that insulin should be reduced when there is hyperglycemia. A lot of "somogyi" effect can actually be explained by a shortened insulin duration, and insulin wearing off causing high BS prior to next dose.
 
Meya14 said:
I'm an RN that has worked with a lot of diabetics. When the somogyi effect was proposed, it was really a theory only. At the time, there wasn't any studies indicating that it actually happened. Medical professionals latched on to the idea and ran with it, even without the evidence. Currently, there is a lot of controversy in medicine about this issue and some new research doesn't really support the concept that insulin should be reduced when there is hyperglycemia. A lot of "somogyi" effect can actually be explained by a shortened insulin duration, and insulin wearing off causing high BS prior to next dose.
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Hi Meya,
I agree with all this, but this (ie somogyi effect) is not the same as what we refer to as bounce on this forum.

But just wanted to clarify for Darnell, and others that may be reading that when we refer to a bounce on the forum, it is not after a symptomatic hypoglycemic event. It is typically when numbers drop low, drop fast, or drop by a large amount for that individual cat, triggering the physiological response by the liver that ultimately results in BG rising. I've not seen anyone recommend doing a rebound check when we have a bouncy kitty, rather we ignore the bounces, to some extent and adjust our dosing according to nadirs.
 
Hi Darnell, sorry I didn't get to the condo the other day when you tagged me, I've been busy with house guests, and when I did get on the board you were already getting a lot of great info/advice from others.

One thing to think about when you get a lower than PS is that you are at the end of the cycle, the insulin is waning and his numbers will start to rise as you reach the end of the insulin duration. With Lantus onset typically being somewhere between +1-+3, I found that in George it would vary, some days he'd onset early, other days later, Lantus is a hormone and so many things affect its action/absorption, we always have to remind ourselves that 1+1 doesn't always equal two in this dance.

You may have already read this thread, but I would suggest revisiting it when you get the chance, it talks about shooting low and strategies etc, it's not specific to Sprocket, but the concepts still apply ( scroll down to Julie's post #53)
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...mps225-1-452-2-228-3-290.147348/#post-1533275

Julie makes a great explanation of shooting low, and provides links to other posts and ss, including cats following SLGS. She gave me this link, back in our early days and this gave me the confidence to gradually start shooting lower, I followed TR with George, so that meant shooting anything over 50. (lowest I shot was 62 I think I once got a 52, it was my first low green, I chickened out, George went to the moon, and after that I vowed I would be brave for his sake)

This is another good thread by Libby
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=111088
Covers things such as shooting low, shooting a falling number, this was another real eyeopener for me.
 
Gill & George said:
Hi Darnell, sorry I didn't get to the condo the other day when you tagged me, I've been busy with house guests, and when I did get on the board you were already getting a lot of great info/advice from others.

One thing to think about when you get a lower than PS is that you are at the end of the cycle, the insulin is waning and his numbers will start to rise as you reach the end of the insulin duration. With Lantus onset typically being somewhere between +1-+3, I found that in George it would vary, some days he'd onset early, other days later, Lantus is a hormone and so many things affect its action/absorption, we always have to remind ourselves that 1+1 doesn't always equal two in this dance.

You may have already read this thread, but I would suggest revisiting it when you get the chance, it talks about shooting low and strategies etc, it's not specific to Sprocket, but the concepts still apply ( scroll down to Julie's post #53)
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...mps225-1-452-2-228-3-290.147348/#post-1533275

Julie makes a great explanation of shooting low, and provides links to other posts and ss, including cats following SLGS. She gave me this link, back in our early days and this gave me the confidence to gradually start shooting lower, I followed TR with George, so that meant shooting anything over 50. (lowest I shot was 62 I think I once got a 52, it was my first low green, I chickened out, George went to the moon, and after that I vowed I would be brave for his sake)

This is another good thread by Libby
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=111088
Covers things such as shooting low, shooting a falling number, this was another real eyeopener for me.
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I will read these threads soon. The thing with sprocket is he drops slow somtimes like the other day but he doesnt go back up at end of cycle. He did that on this day and he kept dropping for a couple of hours. Today he is dropping slow again but it acting normal so if he goes under 90 we are taking the reduction this time. He is almost there now. I gotta retest in 1hour.
 
Darnell & Sprocket said:
The thing with sprocket is he drops slow somtimes like the other day but he doesnt go back up at end of cycle.
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Duration can also vary.

What I mean by that is that it is possible that you get 10 hours duration one day( you will see PS number come up) and 13 hours another day(PS number might be flat or still falling slightly), the post by Libby on shooting a falling number discusses that concept, and how it is actually a 'gift', if you can have the insulin shot onset just as the previous shot duration ends that's the 'holy grail' that will lead to a flat lantus curve, we don't really want to see them come up massively by shot time, ideally there flat going into shot, rising slightly by the +2+3, just as you onset of the next shot hits, that's what can result in the flat lantus curve of a regulated kitty.
 
apple said:
Question: does this mean diabetic cats may not, at times have sugar in their urine? Or do they always have sugar in their urine?

My vet said my cat will always have sugar in his urine since he is diabetic and the only thing that changes is amount of sugar in urine.

If every cat is different, the vet says 120 is renal threshold for all cats, so is he wrong and that isn't a real thing?
Click to expand...
@apple If you want to ask your own questions, it might be easier to start your own thread rather than adding onto someone else's post. I'll give a brief answer in case Darnell is also interested.

First, diabetic cats do not always have sugar in their urine. Neko often tested negative for sugar, when she was in good blood sugar numbers - below her renal threshold. For her, it was around 220 on a human meter. I have seen some cats in the mid to upper blues. ECID. Since Neko had kidney disease, my goal was to try to keep her below renal threshold so as to not stress her kidneys more.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
@apple If you want to ask your own questions, it might be easier to start your own thread rather than adding onto someone else's post. I'll give a brief answer in case Darnell is also interested.

First, diabetic cats do not always have sugar in their urine. Neko often tested negative for sugar, when she was in good blood sugar numbers - below her renal threshold. For her, it was around 220 on a human meter. I have seen some cats in the mid to upper blues. ECID. Since Neko had kidney disease, my goal was to try to keep her below renal threshold so as to not stress her kidneys more.
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Wendy. Yes I am interested. So is there a way to find out your cats renal threshold?
And i didnt realize sugar in urine was different. How does that work? How is it different than blood glucose??
 
You can use ketodiastix to find your cats renal threshold. Those sticks also measure sugar levels. Excess glucose from the blood gets filtered out by the kidneys into the urine ( simplifying here). Measure the blood glucose after getting a urine glucose test to give up a rough idea. Of course it takes several reading because you want to know the point at which you do not get glucose in the urine. And there is a delay between when the sugar in the blood gets into the urine. I always took Neko's BG before going into the vet for a urine sample. That is an alternative but slower way to using to ketodiastix to getting the renal threshold.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You can use ketodiastix to find your cats renal threshold. Those sticks also measure sugar levels. Excess glucose from the blood gets filtered out by the kidneys into the urine ( simplifying here). Measure the blood glucose after getting a urine glucose test to give up a rough idea. Of course it takes several reading because you want to know the point at which you do not get glucose in the urine. And there is a delay between when the sugar in the blood gets into the urine. I always took Neko's BG before going into the vet for a urine sample. That is an alternative but slower way to using to ketodiastix to getting the renal threshold.
Click to expand...

Ok...I think I am still lost on this. If you measure glucose in urine then do a blood glucose and is it the difference between both numbers or they should be same?
Sorry this stuff is confusing to me so feel free to simplify like i am a kid . Lol .
 
The urine glucose number will not be the same as the BG, but it will tell you whether there is sugar in the urine or not.
 
Urine glucose simply tells you that cat has been high for a significant period of time in the last 12 hours. You can't really use it to gauge dosage or even to estimate overall control very well. The issue with knowing the renal threshold is that every cat has a different BS value where the sugars overflow into the kidneys. When the sugar gets into the kidneys, it can cause kidney damage and can increase the risk for UTI.
 
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