? 5/30/17 JELLY BELLY AMPS 355 and .75 unit/ +6 bs 90 ? PMPS 95 didnt shoot HELP ADVICE

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RochellenJelly said:
Do I test again + 2 and more or can i sleep ?
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It's very important to get tests on the PM cycle too because most cats go lower at night (that's why we have so many PJ parties around here!) Also, without tests on the PM cycle, you're missing half the picture in JellyBelly's "puzzle" (spreadsheet)

Getting the PMPS and a +2 will be helpful....again, because of the +2 "rules"

If the +2 is about the same as the PS, it's usually a pretty "normal" cycle....gradually down to the nadir and then gradually back up again to the next PS

If the +2 is higher than the PS, that can be the signal that they're starting a bounce....those are generally the cycles where you can take a break on testing and sleep safely

If the +2 is lower than the PS, that's your "early warning" that JB may be planning some hijinks later in the cycle and those are those "active" cycles where it's important to get more tests later in the cycle....even if it means setting an alarm to make sure you wake up.

Some cats do better with the +3 test as far as "predicting" what the cycle is going to be like.....the only way to know which test is most useful for you and JellyBelly is to test, gather data and see which test is the better predictor for him

ECID isn't just the leftovers from alphabet soup.....LOL......it really does mean that Every Cat Is Different and the only way to know how your cat is going to react is to gather data and try to learn what his pattern is going to be (and as soon as you're sure you know it, he'll change it!)
 
RochellenJelly said:
I'm going to re read this and make sense of it and tomorrow then am I aiming for amps and majority of food and then a +1 more +2 more food and bs and then +3 last of his usual morning food. Then a bs at +6 and +11 so I know where he's going and post then if concerns and then a pmps and his insulin ? If numbers permit ? Do I test again + 2 and more or can i sleep ?
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Here's what I suggest on Testing at PS and after for tomorrow:
AMPS: test, feed, shoot as long as he's above 11; if he's below, don't feed, post, ask for help
+2 test; if the +2 is more than 20% above PS, test at +6; if it's the same as PS, test at +4; if it's quite a bit below PS, test at +3; after that, post for help on when to test next.
+6: test here if the PS and +2 were more than 20% variance and then next test at + 10

Hopefully, that helps. The tests after PMPS will depend on where he is. If you shoot the lowest number you've ever shot, get a +1 and +2. If not, start with a +2.
 
I'm guessing your using the SLGS protocol as your not testing enough for TR. The SLGS is meant to Start Low and work to a dose that has your cat regulated in Blue numbers(100-200) and not Start High and reduce to those numbers, which seems to be what is happening. Since 0.75 once a day is probably too much, I would suggest shooting 0.5 or maybe even 0.25. If it ends up being too low you would be increasing again in a week.

Your probably safe to shoot 0.5, but if it were me and my cat in that situation and testing mainly at preshots only; I would reduce to 0.25 and establish shooting twice a day at safer numbers for a week. Then increase to 0.5 a week from now if needed. I really think continuing with 0.75 dose at this point is playing too dangerously with hitting hypo numbers.
 
babyBoo said:
I'm guessing your using the SLGS protocol as your not testing enough for TR. The SLGS is meant to Start Low and work to a dose that has your cat regulated in Blue numbers(100-200) and not Start High and reduce to those numbers, which seems to be what is happening. Since 0.75 once a day is probably too much, I would suggest shooting 0.5 or maybe even 0.25. If it ends up being too low you would be increasing again in a week.

Your probably safe to shoot 0.5, but if it were me and my cat in that situation and testing mainly at preshots only; I would reduce to 0.25 and establish shooting twice a day at safer numbers for a week. Then increase to 0.5 a week from now if needed. I really think continuing with 0.75 dose at this point is playing too dangerously with hitting hypo numbers.
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So based on his morning numbers what would you do ?
 
RochellenJelly said:
well i dont know how to update the title to get help? do i start new thread for help and i followed marje advice just posted wrong i guesss:(
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Any time you want to change your title click on "Thread Tools" that you will find to the lower right area under the title bar. Click on "edit" and you'll be able to change part or all of your title, add an extra question mark or 911 icon (left end of title bar), etc.
 
this isn't my morning post thing tho I have one for today needing advice
Kris & Teasel said:
Any time you want to change your title click on "Thread Tools" that you will find to the lower right area under the title bar. Click on "edit" and you'll be able to change part or all of your title, add an extra question mark or 911 icon (left end of title bar), etc.
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OK. I've read through the posts here and I think that you should stall without feeding him and retest so that this new test falls 30 minutes after the one that gave you a 182. Post the result as soon as you have it.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
OK. I've read through the posts here and I think that you should stall without feeding him and retest so that this new test falls 30 minutes after the one that gave you a 182. Post the result as soon as you have it.
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Damn it I gave him 2 tbs food already and his first test was 6:55 am :( now what sorry
 
While you wait to retest, here are some things to think about:
  • His numbers are erratic right now so you need to get a fix on where he is at various times thorough a cycle. You don't have to do a full curve but try for tests once or twice a cycle at different times - eg. +2 and+5 in one cycle, +4 and +8 in another, etc. This way, you build up a picture of his responses over time.
  • You're struggling with an avalanche of info right now so try to focus on the absolute essentials: AM and PM tests before feeding (no food 2 hours before), posting here if the number is too low, follow the advice we give, one or two other tests in a cycle.
  • Most important of all - BREATHE. Make a huge effort to stay as calm as you can while you do what you need to do, while you wait for a response here, etc. Unless you get a BG number that shows up as a lime green on your SS you have time to take it slowly. Don't worry - we can help if that happens. ;)
 
So here's the schedule - doesn't hurt to see it in writing a few times when you're starting out:
  1. 2 hours before AM and PM preshot BG tests remove all food.
  2. do AM or PM preshot test and post here if under 11 - don't feed yet!
  3. if 11 or higher, feed normal meal - doesn't have to be a lot of food (a few tbsp?) because Lantus is slow in onset
  4. give insulin.
 
Just messed up feeding I am getting it tho everything else followed
Kris & Teasel said:
So here's the schedule - doesn't hurt to see it in writing a few times when you're starting out:
  1. 2 hours before AM and PM preshot BG tests remove all food.
  2. do AM or PM preshot test and post here if under 11 - don't feed yet!
  3. if 11 or higher, feed normal meal - doesn't have to be a lot of food (a few tbsp?) because Lantus is slow in onset
  4. give insulin.
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es up
 
Kris & Teasel said:
OK. It's probably a bounce. I'll go out on a limb here and tell you to give him a 0.75 u dose. Is it close to your normal dose time? Promise me that you'll test at +2 and post the result here.
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Well I was aiming for 7 and 7 shot times because I need to start school June 5 and I won't be able to run those test everyday..... so so I feed more and shot .75 or less then that and post +2 +4 + 6 ?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
OK. It's probably a bounce. I'll go out on a limb here and tell you to give him a 0.75 u dose. Is it close to your normal dose time? Promise me that you'll test at +2 and post the result here.
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Also will you be around to check in on us I am still nervous about this all
 
RochellenJelly said:
Well I was aiming for 7 and 7 shot times because I need to start school June 5 and I won't be able to run those test everyday..... so so I feed more and shot .75 or less then that and post +2 +4 + 6 ?
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Give 0.75 u as soon as you can. If you need to back up the shot time you can do it by 30 minutes once a day or 15 minutes a cycle until you get to where it needs to be. You have plenty of time to do that before school starts. Post +2 for sure and we can go from there. Sound like a plan?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'll be around for the next couple of hours. I'll be here to look for your +2 at least.
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OK so I gave him another tablespoon and .75 just now so 8 am and I'll test his BG again in one hour and do I feed the curve meaning feed him again in an hour? And do you feed him before you test or after for these plus one +2+3
 
RochellenJelly said:
OK so I gave him another tablespoon and .75 just now so 8 am and I'll test his BG again in one hour and do I feed the curve meaning feed him again in an hour? And do you feed him before you test or after for these plus one +2+3[/QUOT
Basically I am testing every hour from time of shot .... right he's had now 2/3 of his can and I have .75 unit and will just need to clarify in one hour do I test sugar then offer more food and then do that for + 1 and + 2 and + 3 also on spreedsheet I've entered AMBG no units in unit spot and a +1 since then, where would I put new values and that I have given .75 unit
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RochellenJelly said:
OK so I gave them another tablespoon and .75 and I'll test them again in one hour and do I feed the curve meaning feed him again in an hour? And do you feed him before you test or after for these plus one +2+3
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Feeding the curve is a good tool but let's save it for later. Right now you need to see how he does on this dose with no interference. Your goal is to get baseline BG data and put it on your SS. From there, decisions can be made about how to control his responses. First, you need to see what those responses are.

Does he graze on wet food all day? If you can give him scheduled feedings for today that would help in this data gathering exercise.
 
Normally I have left his food all day and haven't taken it away and he grazes today it's been 3 tbs in total 2 at 7 am and 1 now before his insulin
Kris & Teasel said:
Feeding the curve is a good tool but let's save it for later. Right now you need to see how he does on this dose with no interference. Your goal is to get baseline BG data and put it on your SS. From there, decisions can be made about how to control his responses. First, you need to see what those responses are.

Does he graze on wet food all day? If you can give him scheduled feedings for today that would help in this data gathering exercise.
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Try this:
  1. feed breakfast - DONE!
  2. 0.75u of insulin - DONE!
  3. give a bit more food if he'll eat then take it away - not done yet
  4. wait until +2 to test but don't give any food - not done yet
  5. post +2 and update SS - not done yet
  6. give another snack if he'll eat then take food away - not done yet
  7. wait until +4 to test again but don't give any food - not done yet
  8. post +4 and update SS - not done yet
  9. give another snack and then remove food - not done yet
You won't have to do this all day every day. It's for today to see how he reacts to this insulin dose and we want to minimize the effect of food on those BG tests.

When you have some time, go back and reread the posts here to absorb more of what was said. Make your own notes in your own words to refer back to.

Don't worry about using food at +1, +2 etc. to control the dropping of his BG. That's something for later when you have a better handle on what to do.
 
This is amazing way for me to understand and I will be able to do this today. I will test at 10 am and 12 pm and 2pm and update the spreadsheet
Thanks Kris
Kris & Teasel said:
Try this:
  1. feed breakfast - DONE!
  2. 0.75u of insulin - DONE!
  3. give a bit more food if he'll eat then take it away - not done yet
  4. wait until +2 to test but don't give any food - not done yet
  5. post +2 and update SS - not done yet
  6. give another snack if he'll eat then take food away - not done yet
  7. wait until +4 to test again but don't give any food - not done yet
  8. post +4 and update SS - not done yet
  9. give another snack and then remove food - not done yet
You won't have to do this all day every day. It's for today to see how he reacts to this insulin dose and we want to minimize the effect of food on those BG tests.

When you have some time, go back and reread the posts here to absorb more of what was said. Make your own notes in your own words to refer back to.

Don't worry about using food at +1, +2 etc. to control the dropping of his BG. That's something for later when you have a better handle on what to do.[/QUO
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babyBoo said:
I'm guessing your using the SLGS protocol as your not testing enough for TR. The SLGS is meant to Start Low and work to a dose that has your cat regulated in Blue numbers(100-200) and not Start High and reduce to those numbers, which seems to be what is happening. Since 0.75 once a day is probably too much, I would suggest shooting 0.5 or maybe even 0.25. If it ends up being too low you would be increasing again in a week.

Your probably safe to shoot 0.5, but if it were me and my cat in that situation and testing mainly at preshots only; I would reduce to 0.25 and establish shooting twice a day at safer numbers for a week. Then increase to 0.5 a week from now if needed. I really think continuing with 0.75 dose at this point is playing too dangerously with hitting hypo numbers.
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I'm sorry but this is all incorrect advice for this kitty.

Rochelle hasn't decided which method she wants to follow yet and that's fine. There is no rush. She is just getting started with Jelly. The vet put him on too high of a dose and so she is trying to get to a better dose.

So far, the 0.75u dose is definitely not too much for him. She has skipped only because she's not ready yet to try shooting below 150 and she's still learning that if she is stalling, she shouldn't feed. It's a process and we all have to go through it and learn what makes us comfortable.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Try this:
  1. feed breakfast - DONE!
  2. 0.75u of insulin - DONE!
  3. give a bit more food if he'll eat then take it away - not done yet
  4. wait until +2 to test but don't give any food - not done yet
  5. post +2 and update SS - not done yet
  6. give another snack if he'll eat then take food away - not done yet
  7. wait until +4 to test again but don't give any food - not done yet
  8. post +4 and update SS - not done yet
  9. give another snack and then remove food - not done yet
You won't have to do this all day every day. It's for today to see how he reacts to this insulin dose and we want to minimize the effect of food on those BG tests.

When you have some time, go back and reread the posts here to absorb more of what was said. Make your own notes in your own words to refer back to.

Don't worry about using food at +1, +2 etc. to control the dropping of his BG. That's something for later when you have a better handle on what to do.
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I think all of this is good except the last part because I want her to start learning to feed him at +1 and +2. She has to start back to school on June 5 and she needs to know how he reacts with food before she has to leave by +2. It's important to understand if feeding him will help keep him from dropping so she doesn't have to worry about him.

I have a plan :)
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I think all of this is good except the last part because I want her to start learning to feed him at +1 and +2. She has to start back to school on June 5 and she needs to know how he reacts with food before she has to leave by +2. It's important to understand if feeding him will help keep him from dropping so she doesn't have to worry about him.

I have a plan :)
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It takes a village, Marje ... :smuggrin: I wasn't thinking about the return to school on June 5. I was trying to reduce the "need to do's".
 
Kris & Teasel said:
It takes a village, Marje ... :smuggrin: I wasn't thinking about the return to school on June 5. I was trying to reduce the "need to do's".
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Yes, I know it takes a village...I've been here a very long time. :):):)

I also understand the need to not overwhelm. I left her a lot of info because she asked the questions and she had a lot of answers given so I wanted to tie it together for her.

There is always a method to my "madness" :)
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Yes, I know it takes a village...I've been here a very long time. :):):)

I also understand the need to not overwhelm. I left her a lot of info because she asked the questions and she had a lot of answers given so I wanted to tie it together for her.

There is always a method to my "madness" :)
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Ok guys your losing me again .... kris schedule was great for my need to visualize and I have fed snacks and about to do the +4 do I fed or not at this +4 after I test or not ? He's had one can
 
RochellenJelly said:
Ok guys your losing me again .... kris schedule was great for my need to visualize and I have fes snacks and about to do the +4 do I fed or not
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No, you don't need to feed right now.

We were discussing you feeding each cycle at AMPS, +1, +2, +3. I feel like you need to start doing it so you can see how he responds to food while you are there to monitor him. That way, when you start school, you will know if feeding him at those times will help keep him from dropping.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
No, you don't need to feed right now.

We were discussing you feeding each cycle at AMPS, +1, +2, +3. I feel like you need to start doing it so you can see how he responds to food while you are there to monitor him. That way, when you start school, you will know if feeding him at those times will help keep him from dropping.
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I did feed at +1 and + 2 now I am doing +4 and will post then can you please advise
 
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