? 5/30/17,Sprocket,Amps/307.+3.3/160.+4.6/143.+5.6/116, +6.5/87.+8.5/88.PMPS/107,+1hr/101, puked

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Darnell & Sprocket (GA)

Darnell & Sprocket (GA)

Member Since 2015
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ps-269-3-5-245-7-5-230-pmps-281-3-312.178541/

Amps/307
Worried he didnt eat much overnight unless I put fortiflora on the food. Not sure if he stayed in 300s or not. Wanted to give ears a rest.

Ate 1.75oz of 3carb proplan urinary formula
Meds & insulin in at 645am.
Will test at +3.

???
Is it ok when he is in 300s while bouncing? He is bouncing alot still.
Even his with his postdka & ketone prone body??

He hasnt peed when I saw him in 3 days so no ketone test.
 
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Darnell & Sprocket said:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ps-269-3-5-245-7-5-230-pmps-281-3-312.178541/

Amps/307
Worried he didnt eat much overnight unless I put fortiflora on the food. Not sure if he stayed in 300s or not. Wanted to give ears a rest.

Ate 1.75oz of 3carb proplan urinary formula
Meds & insulin in at 645am.
Will test at +3.

Is it ok he is in 300s while bouncing?
He hasnt peed when I saw him in 3 days so no ketone test.
Click to expand...
Just a little bouncing after those beautiful blues I think. It'll pass. I hope he eats well today. :)
 
Bounce breaking, it looks like!

You know what to do-- keep an eye on him today. His mini-meal should help to level him out some, but that was quite a drop!
 
Just peeked at the spreadsheet-- that's a nice blue surf he has going today! Though, I kinda hope for your sake he decides to start moving upwards again soon, so you can get your nap. :)

He's looking good!
 
He's doing really well right now even though it's stressful for you. Look at it this way: the more you're exposed to these low numbers situations (that you absolutely know how to handle!) the less anxiety-provoking they'll become. You've already made a ton of progress in that area, Darnell. :)
 
???
?
Is it ok when he is in 300s while bouncing? He is bouncing alot still.
Even his with his postdka & ketone prone body??

??
Is he regulated? What is regulated?

??
How do I sleep at night if he is surfing in 100s and I need to monitor to make sure he doesnt drop low?
I have given some extra food or carb to keep him in 100s.

How do I sleep & monitor?
How do I do this next part?
 
Darnell & Sprocket said:
+8.5/88
Just gave 1.5oz of 5.6carb.
He devoured it and wants more. Should i give more now before the 2 hr cut off of food????
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If he hasn't been eating well for you and wants to eat now, I would feed him. The 2 hour cut off time is more for newbies that don't have enough data yet to know how their kitty is going to react to the insulin. You have plenty of data now.
 
But dont want to do this...
u just don't want to feed a number then shoot it...Then the food wears off and u have a low number and high insulin to deal with.

He seems to not want to eat sometimes when in 300s now. Like his bodt dont like it
 
My cat took like 6 months to be regulated, he was in the 500s for a long time, then started coming down. As long as you have enough insulin on board, the DKA should stay away - sometimes BS still aren't great for a while. That's ok. My thoughts about having high blood sugars at preshot times is that lantus and levemir duration are dose dependent, and high preshot numbers and not consistantly low mid-day numbers indicate more insulin is needed. But then you risk low mid-day numbers. I fed my cat mostly in the afternoon to account for it, and would give treats in the afternoon as well. Take my advice with a grain of salt as far as regulation is concerned - I don't believe in bouncing or somogyi effect.

Also when was your last ketone check?
 
Darnell & Sprocket said:
But dont want to do this...
u just don't want to feed a number then shoot it...Then the food wears off and u have a low number and high insulin to deal with.
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You are testing so you would catch a low number. You don't have to test every hour. Just get the important ones, Preshot, +2 and around 4-7 to catch the nadir. Of course if he were to go too low you'd test more.

I can't stress enough how important the +2 test is. If it is the same or lower then it gives you the heads up that the cycle could be active and you have your radar on. Otherwise, you can relax some a get some rest.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
You are testing so you would catch a low number. You don't have to test every hour. Just get the important ones, Preshot, +2 and around 4-7 to catch the nadir. Of course if he were to go too low you'd test more.

I can't stress enough how important the +2 test is. If it is the same or lower then it gives you the heads up that the cycle could be active and you have your radar on. Otherwise, you can relax some a get some rest.
Click to expand...

When i test at +2 he is normal. I have to wait till +2.5 to get any imdication.

I did ketone test at 2pm today and negative. @Meya14

He has been going lower ALOT lately, thats why i need advice...pls see ss.
How do i monitor, sleep, and I have petsitting starting this weekend then major petsitting next weekend so I need to figure out something now.
 
The more they stay in those blue and green numbers, and the less swings, it actually seems to make them less likely to become hypo. The body starts to better regulate as it should when numbers are consistently good. A healthy cat does have some ability to raise BS via their liver and this process makes them less prone to go too low. You are kindof in that inbetween time, and, ya it's a lot of work. My cat is currently very well regulated (always under 100) and I hardly ever test these days. His BS never really goes outside 80-100. Never low, never high. You'll get there.
 
This time in high greens is very good for Sprocket. The more he does that, the more his body will get used to it and won't bounce as high. It's a process, some cats take longer than others to get regulated. I would not call him regulated yet, ideally you don't want to see many numbers over renal threshold. He will get there, patience.:bighug: Neko took even longer to be regulated, but she was "complicated".

Sprocket is also quite a ways from the "take action" figure of 50 on the human meter. 80's is a lovely surf. Enjoy!
 
Wendy&Neko said:
This time in high greens is very good for Sprocket. The more he does that, the more his body will get used to it and won't bounce as high. It's a process, some cats take longer than others to get regulated. I would not call him regulated yet, ideally you don't want to see many numbers over renal threshold. He will get there, patience.:bighug: Neko took even longer to be regulated, but she was "complicated".

Sprocket is also quite a ways from the "take action" figure of 50 on the human meter. 80's is a lovely surf. Enjoy!
Click to expand...

What exactly is the 'renal threshold'? I have heard 200 and 250 and 300. Which is correct??

And Sprocket has been 'complicated' mostly but he is getting the hang of it now.
 
Meya14 said:
The more they stay in those blue and green numbers, and the less swings, it actually seems to make them less likely to become hypo. The body starts to better regulate as it should when numbers are consistently good. A healthy cat does have some ability to raise BS via their liver and this process makes them less prone to go too low. You are kindof in that inbetween time, and, ya it's a lot of work. My cat is currently very well regulated (always under 100) and I hardly ever test these days. His BS never really goes outside 80-100. Never low, never high. You'll get there.
Click to expand...


Wow! That would be great to stay that level. Is that remission too?

His liver value went up to 191 last we checked on 5/13. He was 168 on 4/9
He has an appt with vet this sat to test his liver again with a check up.
So hope these low bgs since are helping that level. Since those tests his body has almost done a switch. He is now feeling better in 100s vs 300s. And now he tends to feel worse in 300s.
Plus he is eating mostly 12 oz of food daily except when given more food to keep him up. Like today.
He had gained his lost weight back and at vet was 15.6lbs on 5/13.

If you could check in with his ss once a week would be much appreciated since you are the go to dka person please.thanks
 
Darnell & Sprocket said:
Wow! That would be great to stay that level. Is that remission too?

His liver value went up to 191 last we checked on 5/13. He was 168 on 4/9
He has an appt with vet this sat to test his liver again with a check up.
So hope these low bgs since are helping that level. Since those tests his body has almost done a switch. He is now feeling better in 100s vs 300s. And now he tends to feel worse in 300s.
Plus he is eating mostly 12 oz of food daily except when given more food to keep him up. Like today.
He had gained his lost weight back and at vet was 15.6lbs on 5/13.

If you could check in with his ss once a week would be much appreciated since you are the go to dka person please.thanks
Click to expand...

Max has been in remission twice now, but slowly creeps up after a few months and we go back on insulin. We've been at 1/2 U twice a day for a while now with no creeping up, so I just as well don't mess with it. There have been a few days where he didn't get insulin and he still stays under 100. We may attempt to ween him off again soon especially if we go on vacation this summer. He seems to just need that tiny bit to stay regulated.

Good job on the weight gain! Maintaining the weight will help prevent DKA as well as increase in liver enzymes as well. As for the elevated liver values, it's something to keep an eye on. Have you tested for pancreatitis? Sometimes pancreatitis can also cause some inflammation in the liver. Also, if you haven't gotten a test for thyroid, it might be something to look into considering the elevated liver, and the amount of food intake he's requiring.

I've been a little crazy in my schedule lately, but I've been trying to pop in and look at how everythings going with you even though I don't always comment.

I see you are still giving cypro and ondasetron. You may want to evaluate if he still needs these (appetite, etc) and see if you can ween off, as they are processed by the liver and can increase liver enzymes.
 
Meya14 said:
Max has been in remission twice now, but slowly creeps up after a few months and we go back on insulin. We've been at 1/2 U twice a day for a while now with no creeping up, so I just as well don't mess with it. There have been a few days where he didn't get insulin and he still stays under 100. We may attempt to ween him off again soon especially if we go on vacation this summer. He seems to just need that tiny bit to stay regulated.

Good job on the weight gain! Maintaining the weight will help prevent DKA as well as increase in liver enzymes as well. As for the elevated liver values, it's something to keep an eye on. Have you tested for pancreatitis? Sometimes pancreatitis can also cause some inflammation in the liver. Also, if you haven't gotten a test for thyroid, it might be something to look into considering the elevated liver, and the amount of food intake he's requiring.

I've been a little crazy in my schedule lately, but I've been trying to pop in and look at how everythings going with you even though I don't always comment.

I see you are still giving cypro and ondasetron. You may want to evaluate if he still needs these (appetite, etc) and see if you can ween off, as they are processed by the liver and can increase liver enzymes.
Click to expand...
Hey Meya. You got my attention with Max being in remission twice now. Bubba is on his 3rd OTJ. I was curious and wanted to look at Max's SS but it only goes to 2015. How can I view more current data?
 
Meya14 said:
Max has been in remission twice now, but slowly creeps up after a few months and we go back on insulin. We've been at 1/2 U twice a day for a while now with no creeping up, so I just as well don't mess with it. There have been a few days where he didn't get insulin and he still stays under 100. We may attempt to ween him off again soon especially if we go on vacation this summer. He seems to just need that tiny bit to stay regulated.

Good job on the weight gain! Maintaining the weight will help prevent DKA as well as increase in liver enzymes as well. As for the elevated liver values, it's something to keep an eye on. Have you tested for pancreatitis? Sometimes pancreatitis can also cause some inflammation in the liver. Also, if you haven't gotten a test for thyroid, it might be something to look into considering the elevated liver, and the amount of food intake he's requiring.

I've been a little crazy in my schedule lately, but I've been trying to pop in and look at how everythings going with you even though I don't always comment.

I see you are still giving cypro and ondasetron. You may want to evaluate if he still needs these (appetite, etc) and see if you can ween off, as they are processed by the liver and can increase liver enzymes.
Click to expand...

He was negative for pancreatitius in march. Thyroid is normal did that in may.
I have reduced his food intake a little to 12oz a day except when feeding to lift bg. He was eating 15-16oz before.

Also been reducing his cypro to half his dose 2xday. So now .25ml 2xaday. Vet visit on sat this week.
He is still on ursodiol 1ml a day.
 
Pmps/107.
He has eaten 9oz today so far of 3, 4, 5.6 carbs.

Should i bother feeding?
I cant shoot a dose on that number, right??

I could give 4oz of low carb overnight and pray he doesnt go in 400s if i dont shoot

Idk if even 1unit would be ok??
Should i try to feed?
 
If you are able to monitor, that is a very shootable number. Get a +2 to see how the cycle is going to go. I always like to give some food with the insulin unless you just fed him then makes sure around +2 +3 when onset could be that you give some food.
 
Definitely a shootable number. If if would make you feel better, try delaying 20-30 minutes without feeding to see how much he comes up.

Renal threshold is ECID, you can use ketodiastix to see when they start spilling sugar in the urine.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
If you are able to monitor, that is a very shootable number. Get a +2 to see how the cycle is going to go. I always like to give some food with the insulin unless you just fed him then makes sure around +2 +3 when onset could be that you give some food.
Click to expand...

I cant give his full dose of 2.75 on 107. He has no where much to fall. He has done this before and he actually stayed pretty low till about preshot next day
 
This is what happens when i try to NOT feed his bg. I let him stay lower and now i cant shoot cause he is so low and just puked. So i dont know if he feels sick
 
@Darnell & Sprocket take a few deep breaths. Now, can you test him again to see if he's heading up or down. The reason we don't feed a normal range BG with higher carb food is because these lower pre-shots leading into cycles where a cat surfs is what we actually want to see. That's what good regulation looks like. And we do need to learn to shoot those preshot numbers to keep the levels nicely within the normal range.

The puking. Could be from the extra food you gave him. Or it might be something else. After you get your next test, post the number and then maybe we'll be able to see if he's willing to eat. There is also the instance where, because he's ketone-prone and is spending a lot of time running too high, you may need to feed him deliberately so that you can shoot...so that he has insulin on board to keep the ketones at bay.

And yes - this was a very nice cycle. Including him not bouncing sky high by preshot. Exactly what we all really want to see from him.
 
Ya know. I feel like **** now! I am crying and so upset.
I know I am tired but still...
I did the waiting after 1st test and retested. He still didnt go up.
Then he puked and now i gave food and he didnt want it.
I dont believe that everyone doing SLGs would shoot a 2.75 dose on a 101 after dropping all day with a ton of food.

What happened to the rules to go by?
I need to follow something. I cant change times to feed and shoot like everyone else.
And getting posts to this board to get replies is sooo slow.
So now he puked and everyone has left.

I scared. Neither cat wants to eat much. All the 0carb or 1carb flavors i got left either they wont eat (ff flavors all of a sudden) or they aleady had and they wont repeat eat. So what do i do. All i got is higher carb now and he has no insulin.
 
Hi Darnell--

Is the ff they aren't eating/threw up from a new batch? Every once in a while, I'll have problems with a particular "run" of ff, where no one will touch any can from a particular case, but if I get a different case, it's all back to normal.

Will Sprocket eat the higher carb food? I'm concerned about no insulin and throwing up, even though his numbers look so good. If he'll eat the higher carb food without throwing up, you should be fine to shoot, then you can regroup tomorrow.
 
Ok fine! Everyone hate me for asking questions!! I am being told no one wants to answer my questions because i apparently 'argue' . Since when is asking questions considered arguing???

This board is supposed to be for questions!!!!
Maybe i should just give up and do nothig!!
 
Nan & Amber said:
Hi Darnell--

Is the ff they aren't eating/threw up from a new batch? Every once in a while, I'll have problems with a particular "run" of ff, where no one will touch any can from a particular case, but if I get a different case, it's all back to normal.

Will Sprocket eat the higher carb food? I'm concerned about no insulin and throwing up, even though his numbers look so good. If he'll eat the higher carb food without throwing up, you should be fine to shoot, then you can regroup tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Thanks Nan. Its too late to shoot. I only have till 7pm or 7am to shoot. Thats why its a time crunch.
I cant bring the food back cause i wrote the carb count on label.
I am trying to keep it under 3% carb overnight. He ate 1oz of 1carb at 745pm.
I will try 0 later again
And try a 1 carb again too.
He was staying low till about 2 or 3 am when i have a no shot.
Hope it works now.
 
Well, this will be a good opportunity to get a good night's sleep! Maybe try to get another test tonight for a bit more data and to make sure he is moving up some more.

I'm glad he ate a bit of the 1carb for you. If it's possible to do easily, I'd stay away from the flavors he puked up for a little while-- there may be nothing wrong with them but bad luck to have been eaten at the wrong time, but maybe give him a little time to forget that he got sick on them (you don't want him developing an aversion!). But it sounds like the puking was just a passing thing (fingers and paws crossed!).

Get some rest, and have a good night!
 
When you have the time to test and are feeling confident in your ability to handle a hypo I do encourage you to shoot at numbers like you got today. If you aren't able to test, then you do what you have to do to sleep and work and other things. Sometimes, the compromise is shooting a half dose or even smaller amount. Shooting nothing will cause the next few days to be off.

I feel like there's a lot of anxiety. You are doing a fine job regulating him and getting him out of the danger zone of DKA. Regulation is a marathon, not a sprint - you got time to learn all this, and if he's not perfectly regulated today, or tomorrow -- it's really OK as long as he stays healthy. There are some guides to go by (TR, SLGS) but unfortunately, these are not hard and fast rules. Every cat has different things going on, and different reasons that a one-size-fits-all approach simply won't be appropriate. If it were that easy, we wouldn't really need this board.
 
I want to echo what Meya says-- you're doing a great job, Darnell! Sprocket is doing so well lately-- I love hearing the reports of him feeling better and playing!

I think at this point, you're experienced enough and have enough data that, when you ask, people here are almost always going to give you the advice to shoot (unless numbers are really low). But I understand that some of the numbers (like the ones last night) are still lower than you are comfortable shooting, and it can be really nerve-wracking to make the decision to go for it when you are facing it in the moment.

One thing I was thinking of: how about each week you write down your "Sprocket rules" for dosing, so that you have the plan in place beforehand? So for example, I see from your spreadsheet that you've successfully shot in the 140's a few times, and once a reduced dose at 120. So, maybe you could set the following rules for the next week or so:

Below 100: don't shoot
Between 100-130: stall to see if he's coming up and/or shoot a reduced dose
Over 130: shoot the full dose

This is basically a modification of the SLGS low-number strategy (and these numbers are just suggestions-- you may have different cutoffs that you are comfortable with right now). The idea is just to set some clear guidelines up-front, and then to periodically (maybe once a week, more frequently if it works for you) re-evaluate the cutoffs to try to gradually push them lower.

What do you think?
 
Nan & Amber said:
I want to echo what Meya says-- you're doing a great job, Darnell! Sprocket is doing so well lately-- I love hearing the reports of him feeling better and playing!

I think at this point, you're experienced enough and have enough data that, when you ask, people here are almost always going to give you the advice to shoot (unless numbers are really low). But I understand that some of the numbers (like the ones last night) are still lower than you are comfortable shooting, and it can be really nerve-wracking to make the decision to go for it when you are facing it in the moment.

One thing I was thinking of: how about each week you write down your "Sprocket rules" for dosing, so that you have the plan in place beforehand? So for example, I see from your spreadsheet that you've successfully shot in the 140's a few times, and once a reduced dose at 120. So, maybe you could set the following rules for the next week or so:

Below 100: don't shoot
Between 100-130: stall to see if he's coming up and/or shoot a reduced dose
Over 130: shoot the full dose

This is basically a modification of the SLGS low-number strategy (and these numbers are just suggestions-- you may have different cutoffs that you are comfortable with right now). The idea is just to set some clear guidelines up-front, and then to periodically (maybe once a week, more frequently if it works for you) re-evaluate the cutoffs to try to gradually push them lower.

What do you think?
Click to expand...


Thanks you. Thats a great idea.
Last night I was thinking of shooting at least 1 unit till he puked up his food from 3 hours before. I knew something was up. It wasnt his 'normal' cycle so I was scared to shoot. Was not sure what would happen. Glad I didnt shoot. He had a furball this morning then puked again. So more furball may be coming up soon.
I knew something was off. Its hard to get info in such a short timeframe.

I am prepping a plan of what to do for lower bgs so I wont freak out when time comes.
Thanks alot. It means alot to me.
 
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