Help!! cannot control blood sugar due to Exocrine pancrease insufficiency.

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Deb14

Member Since 2015
I'm very concerned i cannot get my cats blood sugar controlled, new dx exocrine pancrease insufficiency. It keeps rising over 202 now. She is taking pancreatic enzymes and i think its causing her blood sugar to keep rising. but was concerns me is she has been getting the same enzyme amt but her blood sugar keeps rising and she is needing more and more insulin every day...im very worried. She was given 1/2 unit at 3:30 but it rose over 190 so at 7:50pm i gave another 1/2 unit. She eats every 3 hrs plus enzymes are added to her food. im realy worried she has always been regulated and actually didnt need insulin when on a low carb diet just 2 weeks ago. I swear this pancreatic enzyme is hurting and killing her beta cells...i can not find any info online at this is rare in a cat to have this issue with the pancrease and vets arent familiar either. we have a huge problem gosh i hope some here has heard of this.. thank you debbie
 
@Bobbie And Bubba Many on this board deal with the same Dx and I am sure that they will be along soon to share their experience.
I just wanted to make sure I understood you correctly - you gave one dose, Bg read 190, your kitty ate well and you gave another injection 4 hours later?
 
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Tanya and Ducia said:
I am not mistaken when I read that you gave 2nd shot fours after the 1st one?
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yes because her blood sugar keeps rising. her first injection was at 3:30 pm bs was 185, waiting went down to 175 then she ate and shot back up to 200. so i gave her another injection at 7:50 pm. does that make sense. thank u for responding I'm a mess
 
Deb14 said:
i tried but i when u edit it wont let u change the title that i can see :-(
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It ok.
Please tell me
what insulin do you use
what is your time zone
when and how much had you kitty eaten and what type of food
do you have higher carbs% food in house or/and honey or Karo sirop
how long ago was the second injection
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
It ok.
Please tell me
what insulin do you use ... lantus
what is your time zone.... eastern standard time
when and how much had you kitty eaten and what type of food ..low carb weruva
do you have higher carbs% food in house or/and honey or Karo strop......no ( ***but on epizyme given with meals 6 times a day) Pancreatic enzymes which has Lipase, protease and amylase(which is a type of sugar)
how long ago was the second injection
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1st injection at 7:50 pm EST and 2nd injection was at 3:30 pm EST

thanks for you quick response thank u so much
 
Deb14 said:
thank u i ended up reposting it as it wouldnt let me change the subject .. tanks again
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Don't worry about it now.
Just offer her something to eat.
Tell me what kind of food do you have available

Can you test her again now? Please let me know
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
I am afraid I misread your post - was two shots given in one day - today - or one was yesterday and another today at 3:30EST?
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the injections weredone today 4 hrs apart. if i give her something to eat i have to add pancreatic enzymes and her bs will jump up another 50 or more.. so I'm hoping to hold her out from eating till it goes down ?? if it will. last time she ate was at 6:30pm est .
 
Deb, I understand that you concerned with the new Dx a lot.
I am sure someone will talk to you about it and help you to deal with it successfully.

But for now I just want to be sure that both shots combined - if given in one cycle - are not sending your kitty too low.
For that you need to test her and post here.
Feed her a little.
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
How is she acting?
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she's acting fine just concerned as she never has high bs she is always regulated and this pancreatic enzymes is known to raise bs in humans i would assume cats too. just weird how it si taking so long to come down. I'm not sure how pancreatic enzymes digest maybe they take a long period of time or have peaks ??
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
Deb, I understand that you concerned with the new Dx a lot.
I am sure someone will talk to you about it and help you to deal with it successfully.

But for now I just want to be sure that both shots combined - if given in one cycle - are not sending your kitty too low.
For that you need to test her and post here.
Feed her a little.
Click to expand...

yes she had 2 shot with 4hrs of each other today . i did that because her numbers were rising not falling due to the pancreatic enzymes she is on as i have read it cause bs numbers to go high. If she eats i have to add pancreatic enzymes to her food which will cause her numbers to rise at least another 50 plus ugh so stressed .
 
I do speak with little experience but in my humble opinion the high doesn't kill in hours - too low does.
If you reluctant to give her more questionable med and I understand it. But it also means she is not eating. With two doses of insulin it might be wrong idea.
 
just since last tues 6 days, her pancreatic enzymes are for her pancreatic insufficiency. These are known to raise blood sugar in humans. I assume it does the same for cats. i was just concerned cause it wont come down. these enzymes react very differently then food does very weird. her bs has finally come down to 161, but as soon as i feed er , her low carb food with the enzymes the bs will rise at least 50 + . thank u
 
Rising 50 pts really isn't that bad, especially when she is having fairly low numbers to begin with. How many hours does it take for the enzymes to start wearing off and her bg to start coming down?
 
Also, remember that the food, alone, is going to raise her bg to some extent. We generally don't recommend giving another shot so soon after the first one, and I'm concerned your kitty's bg may drop too low. Please test and monitor her carefully tonight! She is safer in higher numbers than she is is numbers that are too low. :bighug:
 
Squalliesmom said:
Rising 50 pts really isn't that bad, especially when she is having fairly low numbers to begin with. How many hours does it take for the enzymes to start wearing off and her bg to start coming down?
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the enzymes take about 4 hrs to wear off but she is eating every 3 hrs because of her disease. it makes her eat non stop. when she starts gaining weight hoping her increased appetite will subside. but otherwise her bs doesnt get a chance to stay in good numbers 80-1oo because she eats non stop. her food she eats has zero carbs , its the darn enzymes ... i will def monitor her have been the past week every 2-3 hrs all night..thanku all too much
 
my other concern is there si a possibility she can get better and not be on these enzymes and i dont want the high bs to destroy the rest of her beta cells and hoping she goes back into remission again. she was for 6 mths then diet had to change due to kidney disease which has high carbs. i decided to take her off the kidney diet cause it was making her sick. so she went back to no insulin for a month or so. then she started on enzymes due to her pancreatic insufficiency and the honeymoon was over back to insulin again :-(
 
Hi Deb,
for the moment.... let's just deal with the diabetes..... and you can give us the name of this drug for pancreatic enzymes. We can tell you whether or not they are affecting a cat's bg after we know specifically what you have.

Please do not give any more shots that close together.
Lantus is not a drug. It is a hormone. It accumulates in the bloodstream.

Please do not give but one shot every 12 hours.
Doing so is dangerous and could cause a hypo reaction.

more in a second...
 
the most common reason for losing remission status is needing a dental.
Cats can't take care of their teeth and it only takes one tooth to cause problems. There are also other health issues that can bring a cat out of remission.
202 isn't a bad number..... it just shows you that something is up and her pancreas may need a little support .
It is possible to get back to remission.


Please let us help you find better foods for her kidney issues.
We need more info from you and we would really love it if we could get you a spreadsheet.
Here are the instructions http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

If you need help setting one up... just ask...
there are a few here who can do it for you.


the main thing I need to stress is not to give more than one shot in a 12 hour period.
There are many sticky's at the top of this forum..... You should start reading them to learn more about lantus and how it works.
Please make sure to have a higher carb food with gravy so that if you ever encounter too low numbers, you can give teaspoons of the gravy
to get her back in the safe zone.

I hope you will stick around and start posting daily.
We really can help you.
We even have ways to help kitties with chronic kidney disease who need low phosphorus foods.

Everyone here wants to help pay it forward.


let us know the name of the enzyme you are using.
If it has sugar in it and is boosting kitties numbers, there is likely something else available without sugar.
 
For future reference, to change your subject line, go to your first post of the day and put your cursor over where it says "thread tools" in the upper right corner. Choose "edit title". Then you can change what is in your subject line and save it. We prefer you do that rather than starting a new condo. As you can see, there are a lot of condos and we ask that each member only do one per day to keep all the info in one thread and make it easier on those that are reading it.
 
I'm linking information on EPI which includes information on treatment. Various types of products are mentioned so you have choices.

One point for consideration. We see a lot of cats who have medical issues in addition to their diabetes. The basic rule of thumb is to work the insulin around the other condition. If you have no other option than the pancreatic enzyme you're using, then we'll help you figure out a dose. If your vet is on board with your trying a different product, then it's less of an issue.

I would encourage you to get a spreadsheet set up so we have some sense of your cat's BG readings and your dosing. It's the best way for us to help you.

As others have noted, please don't get freaked out and give 2 Lantus injections during a 12-hour period. Doing this with Lantus can cause all sorts of issues and if your cat isn't eating particularly well, you could easily end up with numbers in a far lower than desirable range.
 
hello

thanks for all ur help.just an update. I upped her insulin dose to 1 unit and that made all the difference. we are seeing better numbers now . her pre shot was 131, much better than 200 for sure.

She has no choice but to use the pancreatic enzymes and they are all the same as far as the amt of amylase, lipase and protease (prescription strength), but like i have read the amylase is a sugar and can increase the blood sugar quite a bit. My cat was actually off the insulin till we started these enzymes.. a bummer but what can u do . These enzymes saved her life. She was down to under 5 lbs due to exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. Would eat constantly and still lose weight. Just weighted her on our scale and she went from 2.74 kg to 2.97 in a few days I'm so happy i could cry. she is feeling great. she also has kidney failure 3rd stage but thats another issue ., thanks again
 
Thank you for posting the update Deb!
I was worried last night about that second dose causing her Hypo which often has no happy ending and relieved to hear she is all right.
I am very sorry about the other conditions and sending you both healing vines :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Please keep posting here or on the Main Health Forum - there are many who deal with the same situation and they will gladly share their experiences with you to help get your kitty better.
 
Great news about the lower BG and the weight gain! We hope you will still set up a spreadsheet and post here, as we'd love to help you as you manage your kitty's diabetes. Remember to test mid-cycle, as Lantus dosing is based on how low the BGs go, with some consideration given to the pre-shot numbers.
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
@Bobbie And Bubba Many on this board deal with the same Dx and I am sure that they will be along soon to share their experience.
I just wanted to make sure I understood you correctly - you gave one dose, Bg read 190, your kitty ate well and you gave another injection 4 hours later?
Click to expand...
I am sorry for responding so late. I don't have any experience with this condition but I see that Sienna gave you a link with some information.

Not to beat a dead horse but it is very unwise to give 2 Lantus shots 4 hours apart. The reason is you will have 2 nadirs to deal with and that could make for a very long time steering possible low numbers.
 
Deb14 said:
hello

thanks for all ur help.just an update. I upped her insulin dose to 1 unit and that made all the difference. we are seeing better numbers now . her pre shot was 131, much better than 200 for sure.

She has no choice but to use the pancreatic enzymes and they are all the same as far as the amt of amylase, lipase and protease (prescription strength), but like i have read the amylase is a sugar and can increase the blood sugar quite a bit. My cat was actually off the insulin till we started these enzymes.. a bummer but what can u do . These enzymes saved her life. She was down to under 5 lbs due to exocrine pancreatic insufficiency. Would eat constantly and still lose weight. Just weighted her on our scale and she went from 2.74 kg to 2.97 in a few days I'm so happy i could cry. she is feeling great. she also has kidney failure 3rd stage but thats another issue ., thanks again
Click to expand...
FYI: amylase is an enzyme that breaks down carbs into simple sugar, lipase is an enzyme that breaks down fats and protease is an enzyme that breaks down proteins.
 
thanks so much..too be more cray just yesterday after high blood sugars her blood sugar dropped to 32 , 51 on alpha trak. no worries we had it under control, long night of food and honey but all good. I know it can be dangerous but its not the first time and she can handle low blood sugar for some odd reason. i was speaking to my vet and she said some cats can handle it bette than others. SHe has been in the 30's at least 6 times in the past 2 years. Whats weird is now she no longer needs insulin at all, she's running around 79 last insulin was 2:30 yesterday afternoon almost 24 hrs. Like i meantion she was in remission just a few weeks ago since july of last yr. She only went back on insulin when another vet offer renal diet which has loads of carbs. But when she started getting sick on the renal diet i switched back to low carb cause she wasnt eating. New Vet agreed! This pancreatic insufficiency issue, the pancreatis is acting very weird. the vet said she has no experience with this in cats cause its rare. but she is taking in all the info ive been giving her in case she gets another cat. My cat was drinking loads of water for 1 week and the high blood sugars that kept on getting higher .. there was no change in the enzymes or food. My vet said this is a mystery but the pancrease has a mind of its own. she thinks maybe it is healing itself which doesnt happen often but it can. thanks again for all your concern,
 
Hi Deb, good to hear from you!
Deb14 said:
Whats weird is now she no longer needs insulin at all, she's running around 79 last insulin was 2:30 yesterday afternoon almost 24 hrs
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79 is really good number, but I am confused about her insulin taking schedule - I thought you were giving the injections at around 3:30 Pm. I hope that the 79 is her "constant, natural " number however the cumulative nature of Lantus, it's depot style acting must be taken in to consideration. Lantus accumulates in the body and releases thru the day. The larger the depot - as one you have created by adding another shot - would have effect on the BG numbers for several cycles to come even if she is off insulin. Might be good to monitor. To get the best possible result from Latus therapy is to keep it 12 hours apart, not to shoot at a certain number when it is higher than usual.
Deb14 said:
just yesterday after high blood sugars her blood sugar dropped to 32 , 51 on alpha trak. no worries we had it under control, long night of food and honey but all good.
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I am so glad you know how to handle it! The only thing I am not sure you heard of is that often after lowering too much a bouncing might occur - natural body response to being too low. I hope SOMEONE ELSE WITH BETTER UNDERSTANDING of the whole picture here will read and correct me but that bouncing might bring higher numbers. At least it applies to a lot of kitties.
Deb14 said:
blood sugar dropped to 32 , 51 on alpha trak
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I hope you don't mind me asking - but how long after that 2nd injection did she fell to 32? You shoot the 2nd time at 7:50 PM EST, might I ask how much have you fed and how soon after the drop took place? It is learning process for many here and as I mentioned yesterday - someone else also used the 2nd shot technique on that day, so it might come very handy to learn the statisticif we are to see more of that.
I wish your kitty all the best :bighug:. There are many on this board in similar circumstances - the Main Health Forum is also high traffic and if you post specific question - either the enzymes or weight gain help - you'll hear from people who achieved success. Best of luck to you!
 
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Deb14 said:
thanks so much..too be more cray just yesterday after high blood sugars her blood sugar dropped to 32 , 51 on alpha trak. no worries we had it under control, long night of food and honey but all good. I know it can be dangerous but its not the first time and she can handle low blood sugar for some odd reason. i was speaking to my vet and she said some cats can handle it bette than others. SHe has been in the 30's at least 6 times in the past 2 years. Whats weird is now she no longer needs insulin at all, she's running around 79 last insulin was 2:30 yesterday afternoon almost 24 hrs. Like i meantion she was in remission just a few weeks ago since july of last yr. She only went back on insulin when another vet offer renal diet which has loads of carbs. But when she started getting sick on the renal diet i switched back to low carb cause she wasnt eating. New Vet agreed! This pancreatic insufficiency issue, the pancreatis is acting very weird. the vet said she has no experience with this in cats cause its rare. but she is taking in all the info ive been giving her in case she gets another cat. My cat was drinking loads of water for 1 week and the high blood sugars that kept on getting higher .. there was no change in the enzymes or food. My vet said this is a mystery but the pancrease has a mind of its own. she thinks maybe it is healing itself which doesnt happen often but it can. thanks again for all your concern,
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Hi Deb,
I'd also like to point you and your vet to another resource if you haven't already found it.
http://epiincats.webs.com/apps/forums/show/15219408-general

This is an offshoot of a very, very well known site called www.EPI4Dogs.com
They have a forum similar to this one with very helpful people.

I'd like to mention that (in dogs at least) it is VERY important to also give B-12 and Antibiotics (for SIBO - which is a bacterial overgrowth in the intestines) along with the enzymes. You can ask about that on their forum to make sure your kitty is getting everything she needs.

Sending :bighug::bighug::bighug: and best wishes!!
 
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