Need help from mini-dose experts--low numbers!

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I'll tell you what the really experienced ones told me not so long ago, you will have to shoot low to stay low, which is really stressful at first but as you have more data it gets better
 
That sounds scary, but it makes sense. Yikes.

He just awoke from a long nap and demanded dinner in no uncertain terms--he's at 109 on the AT, 61 on the Relion, at +11. And I just learned another valuable lesson...I didn't get enough blood on the AT strip to start with and had to try again--it was still doing its thing (flashing to indicate that it was ready for blood--rather than giving an error message or something) at that point, so I thought maybe it'd be ok to just go ahead and get more on there--which got me an 81. I thought "Hmm, I should check that," got a new AT strip, and tested again--109. So I guess I have to make very sure there's a big enough drop of blood for the AT to get what it needs all at once--or switch to the Relion? Maybe I need to start a parallel spreadsheet for the Relion measurements, using the spreadsheet version that's for human meters.

Ugh, how am I going to do this tonight...I don't have a "don't shoot below X" number that I feel good about. I definitely don't want to do anything risky tomorrow, since I'll have to be at work. I'm planning to take a vacation day Wednesday and could I guess be a little more adventurous then...but what do I do in an hour when it's shot time?
 
Squeakycats said:
This isn't really a related question, I guess, so maybe I should put it in the main forum--but I'm noticing that it seems like the Relion meter requires less blood than the AlphaTrak--or at least is less fussy about how well the blood has formed up into a drop. Has that been anyone else's experience? It's making me want to switch to using the Relion as the primary meter. (OK, looked it up--they're both supposed to require the same amount--.3 uL--but it really seems to me like the shape of the Relion test strip is easier to work with.)
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The relion definitely needs less blood in my experience. I have been testing with both as well. I may also switch to relion as the primary meter.

I feel like I get in the same situation with my cat. A full dose seems too much but I don't know what to give sometimes.

Also what is the issue with the Weruva food? I've been giving the low carb to my kitty.
 
Squeakycats said:
but what do I do in an hour when it's shot time?
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Keep him hungry until the pre-shot test, test and post, if he is too low do not feed right away, post - someone will be around to help you to decide then.
My cat lowers further late in cycle if she is hungry. Many cats rise.:cat:
 
Yes if is only one hour before shooting time don't feed until shooting time , test and post your result changing your title adding the?and saying something like PM preshot " the test result" Stalling dose advice!

This way the more experienced will catch it faster
 
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For the meter since we don't have the AT down here I didn't had a choice but the one I have uses the tiniest drop of blood sometimes just a spot not even a drop as long as is on the right place is enough and I love that!

Plus all the protocols have their numbers using human meters so I found it easier to follow them
 
OK--I just tested and he was at 152 on the AT--he didn't really eat the Fussie Cat I offered him earlier (licked it a little, then snubbed), so that shouldn't be affecting things much. I have been practicing with the syringes and the actual insulin today to be sure I can get a dose that is (1) consistent, and (2) less than what I was counting as .1 previously. I also practiced the amount of pressure it would take to be sure it actually comes out of the syringe when in the cat (takes more pressure with such a small amount it seems). I got to where I felt good about it and have just given a drop and a nice big low-carb meal, which he ate in full. Now I can check him at +2 and see where things stand; if it seems like he's going to be dropping, I can set an alarm and get up to check during the night.

@Caren and Creamsickle apparently there are some people in Australia whose cats have become very sick or died after eating some Weruva products (B.F.F. canned foods--flavors that are supposed to be available only in the Australian market), and Weruva has issued a voluntary "stop sale notice" there. Their preliminary tests are apparently not showing a problem with the food, and they are confident that there's no issue with anything available on the US market. They're posting updates on their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/Weruva/pos...otif_t=feed_comment&notif_id=1494244952001705 . (Sorry if that link doesn't work.) Some people have decided to stop feeding all Weruva products. I'm not going to do that--I trust them when they say that there hasn't been an issue in the US and that only these particular products are affected--but I can see why others might choose differently.
 
Thank you all for being with me today and for all of your help, support, and encouragement!!!! I can't promise I won't be bugging you again ;) but I do promise to try to share anything I learn. I wish I could do something to be of help to y'all directly, but I don't know what that would be :(
 
Keeping things going here, just because...PM +2 is 87 on AT, 47 on Relion. Behavior is totally normal. Just fed a small MC meal. Will probably check again during the night, around +4 (11:30 pm) and then depending on how that goes, maybe +6 (1:30 a.m.), and leave out his usual snack.
 
Squeakycats said:
Keeping things going here, just because...PM +2 is 87 on AT, 47 on Relion. Behavior is totally normal. Just fed a small MC meal. Will probably check again during the night, around +4 (11:30 pm) and then depending on how that goes, maybe +6 (1:30 a.m.), and leave out his usual snack.
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IMHO, 47 on Relion is too low, do take another test in 20-30 min just to be absolutely sure that MC started to work.
But I am overly cautious.
 
Squeakycats said:
Keeping things going here, just because...PM +2 is 87 on AT, 47 on Relion. Behavior is totally normal. Just fed a small MC meal. Will probably check again during the night, around +4 (11:30 pm) and then depending on how that goes, maybe +6 (1:30 a.m.), and leave out his usual snack.
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Looks like another reduction, but how do you reduce already reduced drop?! :confused:
 
Oh, I'm going to keep after him tonight! I'm doing ok--I think, based on the AT number (which I got first, when the blood drop was nice and big), he should be fine. I'm really not sure how to reduce the dose further! I feel like I'd have to dilute the insulin or something, and that seems like a level of specialization that would be beyond me. Or maybe there's some other kind of syringe I could be getting, or some other way of getting an even smaller drop? I've been practicing all day, and I get a consistent-sized drop with the "push hard on the plunger and release while in the insulin pen" strategy, but I don't know how I would be able to remove a consistent amount of it--it's really difficult to control the plunger that finely, at least with this syringe. I guess I could experiment on that front--possibly if I pushed less firmly when injecting it? But yeah, I don't know.

What do I do if I stop the insulin and he continues to have numbers in the low to mid 100s--just accept that and call it a day? Do a drop once a day even though once a day is not ideal?

Hmm. I wonder if a pharmacist could help somehow.
 
Surely I must be doing something wrong--he can't be responding this strongly to a drop that size, can he?!? I keep checking, and it really does seem to be consistent--I'm dropping it onto a square on some graph paper, and when it's absorbed, the resulting circle is the same size each time--and it looks the same to me on the needle...
 
I am not sure if this device would be of any help but do google BD Magni-Guide™ Device.
I have trouble twice a day drawing 0.75 and simply wouldn't know where to start with reducing drops..

I hope someone will weigh in. If you going to take a test later on would you please post it or I will be imagining the worse case scenario?:oops:
 
Squeakycats said:
Surely I must be doing something wrong--he can't be responding this strongly to a drop that size, can he?!? I keep checking, and it really does seem to be consistent--I'm dropping it onto a square on some graph paper, and when it's absorbed, the resulting circle is the same size each time--and it looks the same to me on the needle...
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Squeakycats said:
he can't be responding this strongly to a drop that size, can he?!?
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Cats can do that to their beans...:cat:
Tell him if he doesn't stop lowering the ear poking will go on and on and on..;) I hope he listens.
:bighug:
 
For what I know is really not a good idea to dilute this insuline, to try and get a smaller drop you could give the plunger a turn instead of pressing it

And yes as incredible as it sounds a drop is a lot for some kitties Babu's bigger dose was 0.75

Do let him know the lower his numbers the more pokes that may do the trick;)
 
Oh, @Tanya and Ducia , you are so sweet--thank you for caring so much! I will definitely test again and post each time I do. That Magni-Guide is nifty!

I'm sitting here poking this poor insulin pen again and again, and I think I may have found a way to measure something smaller. I don't know that I can explain how I'm doing it--it involves watching the part of the plunger tip (the black section) that is compressed as you push on it--the middle, if you will, rather than the end that's at the 0 or the "top" part that's closest to the top of the syringe. If I continue to be able to do this well, I'll see if I can get my husband to take a picture with a good camera with a macro lens...

Here comes the kitty...might as well give him a check...
 
82 on the Relion. Regarding the AlphaTrak, he says "No, I really don't think so right now...try me again later if you must." I gave him a talking-to about the pokes, but I don't think he was listening...in fact, I think I heard him say something like "But...there's gravy..."
 
Great number! I hope he surfs safely for you.
I think that I read in one of the stickies about method (very approximate description) when you push all of the air out of the syringe as hard as you can, poke the rubber stopper and let go so the vaccum sucks in some insulin. The needle is not submerged into the liquid.
Have you came across anything like this?
I do not remember the details but ..where did I read it?!
 
I think that's what I've been doing, except I don't see how the needle could be not submerged in the liquid, the way the pen is set up...hmmmmm...I will experiment next time I have a needle out! But the cool thing is that turning the plunger, without pulling on it at all, really works! I am in awe of @Veronica & Babu-chiri 's microdosing powers!
 
He seems to be responding ok :) he's on his way up

I hope some of the expirenced ones would hope in but you still have to decide what are you going to do tomorrow morning will you be able to monitor him?
 
No, I won't be able to watch him tomorrow--I could give him his shot and test again in 2 hours, but then I'd have to leave immediately and be gone for the rest of the day--I have multiple meetings tomorrow. And my husband won't be home, either. Right now I'm thinking that I'll probably skip tomorrow morning and resume things tomorrow night, knowing that I will be home all day on Wednesday. I hate skipping, but I hate the idea of sending him too low much worse...
 
Poor little guy...he's sleeping next to me, and I can see the surface of his left ear really well from this angle...it's a mess--the vein looks all lumpy, and there are a couple of big bruises. I'm trying really hard to hit different spots on both ears, to make the smallest puncture possible, etc., but it's just been an awful lot of poking. :( I know there are conflicting schools of thought about using the Neosporin with pain relief, but I think I may need to start doing that consistently for a few days.
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
I think that I read in one of the stickies about method (very approximate description) when you push all of the air out of the syringe as hard as you can, poke the rubber stopper and let go so the vaccum sucks in some insulin. The needle is not submerged into the liquid.
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I don't remember where I read it.. I'll keep looking and will post it for you here if I can locate it.
I am going to get off for a few hours.
Are you going to be OK?

Post any questions and, of course, any troubling lows.

If you not home tomorrow - make plans as to what food and how much to leave out for him in addition to feedings. He still will be on the depot deposits of insulin tomorrow - it stays up to 4 or 6 cycles and if he low now so it might be tomorrow.

Maybe change the title line of your post and ask what to do about his food since you not home and the depot may be at work. Use the ? as the prefix - it's on the left of the title line. It's not too late on the East Coast - you might get some answers now but the title has to be specific to the situation.
 
The neosporin does help them I wouldn't use it all the time either but I did used it in times like this to help his ears a little bit.

And considering the fact that you have been having to stir his numbers with food and that he would be alone tomorrow I would go with safety first too. Unless you test him at his usuall AM shooting time , and he's really high . Just remember to withdraw food from him two hours before his shooting time so that when you test the numbers are not food influenced ( even if you are not shooting is better if you know how he's doing before he eats)

And maybe leave some MC food out just in case so that he can eat during the morning
 
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Thank you all! @Tanya and Ducia , I think we are ok--I'm going to check him again in a few minutes, and if he's low, I'll feed again and check later in the night. I'm planning to check in the morning to be sure he's not too low, and I'll leave plenty of food for him in his special feeding box--I can decide between the Primal freeze-dried and the dry Evo (which I think is a little higher-carb) based on things look in the morning. It has just occurred to me that I might be able to get my neighbor to check on him, as she did last Tuesday--she works from home every Tuesday. She wouldn't be able to test, but she could come and say hi and give him a gravy-licious snack if he seems like he's doing at all poorly.

I really, really, really appreciate everyone's help and support!!!!!!!!!!
 
Final report for the night...104 on the AlphaTrak. I only have 1 test strip left for the Relion; I'm going to save that for the morning. He's eating a nice low-carb snack and will have his usual freeze-dried Primal available overnight. Since it's been 2 hours since he last ate and this is PM +4, I'm feeling pretty ok about things! I think I'll still skip tomorrow morning, even if his numbers are a little higher than I'd like, just to be safe, but I think we're all right for now :cat:
 
Hi,
just had a chance to post....
given that he did go below 50 tonite....
he may be ready for a trial .....
so it's good that you might skip tomorrow........
see how his numbers are without a dose.....

see if his numbers drop after eating ( about the 2-4 hour afterward timeframe)
 
Good morning, all--he was at 94 on the AT and 53 on the Relion this morning! I will test him again before I leave for work, and I'll leave a little extra food out today, but this seems good to me--the Relion is a little low, but I think that's right where I'd like to see him be on the AT. Hope everyone has a great day!
 
101 on the AT at +2. I fed a little MC just in case, and skipped the shot, so we'll see what tonight brings...
 
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