Need help from mini-dose experts--low numbers!

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Squeakycats

Squeakycats

Member Since 2017
Hi, all--not sure if I'm posting this question correctly, but I wanted your advice. I'm trying to find a nice low dose for Misha that I can do twice a day. This morning, his AMPS was 100 on the AT, 66 on the Relion meter. I went ahead with a drop (press the plunger in all the way, insert syringe in insulin pen, let go to get the drop), thinking my husband was going to be home today to keep an eye on the kitty. He's not, and I'm wondering if I screwed up and, if so, how to handle that. My boss has kindly let me stay home for most of the day, but I have to go in for a meeting and thus will be gone from 1:30-3:30 (which is +6 to +8, naturally). I just did a test at +2.5, and he was at 76 on the AT and 39 on the Relion [edited: previously wrote 29 on Relion--typo]. This seems worrisome.

What should I do? If I stay with him until 1:30, feed him a good meal right beforehand, and hurry back after the meeting, is that ok? Should I see whether I can reschedule the meeting? (This will not be looked upon kindly but may be possible if it seems like this is a kitty emergency.) Should I be feeding him right now? (His behavior is fine--very tired of getting his ear poked, but otherwise seems normal.) When should I test him again?

I have read people talking about "aborting the cycle," but I can't tell for sure how that it supposed to work--if I give him a high-carb meal, does that mean his numbers should go back up and stay relatively high for the rest of the cycle? (That's what "abort" would mean to me.) If we "abort the cycle," does that mean he should be ok until it's time for his next shot?

I'm sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong way or asking a question I should be able to answer by doing more reading--I'm just not sure what to do right now. (It's about 10:15.)
 
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I think I'm going to test again in 15 minutes or so and give a little medium-carb food if the numbers are still dropping, at least.
 
Thank you all! He thinks this is great--he loves gravy and hasn't had it in weeks. I do not think this is great!!!!!
 
I think there's definitely need to monitor very closely, but don't panic! With the skipped shots the last few nights, the 0.1 dose before that, and the "drop" dose this morning, there's very little insulin on-board or in the depot. While it is definitely possible to hypo on very little insulin, you've got the situation well in hand by feeding some carbs to prevent that. You've got this!

Plus, this:

Squeakycats said:
Thank you all! He thinks this is great--he loves gravy and hasn't had it in weeks.
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Far as your kitty is concerned, it's a party!
 
Gave him the gravy part of Weruva "Cats in the Kitchen" pouch food--he just finished that, so I haven't re-tested yet. He's purring and acting super-happy and begging for more. Will test again right now.
 
91 on the AT, 61 on the Relion...that's more like it. He does not think getting tested is a good party game.
 
So crudmonkeys...what do I do with him now? I think I'd better cancel this meeting. Do I just keep testing and feed again if necessary? How often? Should I take the 911 away now that he's not super-freaky-low? [Edited to add: I know about the Weruva situation, but I'm in the US and have been feeding the civvie this food with no problems recently, so I'm hoping it's ok]
 
I don't know that you're going to need to cancel the meeting-- you still have a few hours to go, right? He may just surf safely (or even bounce up) for the rest of the day.

Summarizing so far:

AMPS: 100 (AT), 66 (Relion)
+2.5: 76 (AT), 39 (Relion), fed gravy
+3: 91 (AT), 61 (Relion)
 
Yes, I should get that in the spreadsheet, right! Thank you thank you thank you, people who know things!
 
How long before you have to leave? If he continues on his way up you may be able to leave, if he is hungry give him his normal LC food from now on
 
That's great that he is above 50 on the relion now.
I think you should give a little LC now if he will eat it (couple of teaspoons), and check again in 30minutes, you want to see if he is holding the rise.

Did you recheck the number on the relion? Wondering if number was dodgy as the AT number was OK (only just though, 68 being the reduction point)

If he is still holding his own two hours after the HC (so I think that would be around +4.5) you would be safe to go, if he doesn't sustain himself, you may need to cancel.

Yes take down the 911, initial panic over.
 
Yeah, he totally snubbed an LC he's usually excited about (Tiki Cat salmon); consented to an nibble of dry Evo. Definitely giving me a dirty look as I get another lancet, etc. ready. This is all interesting (in a bad way). So this is kind of the standard procedure for distressingly-low numbers? Do you just record what happens in the spreadsheet notes? What do I do tonight, assuming his numbers are back to normal--try to give an even smaller dose? I need to go compare the plunger-drop with what I was calling .1 and see how different they are. I am kicking myself for giving him anything this morning--I just want to get him on a workable twice-a-day dose--I'm going to have to buy a full patience pantsuit, since the pants alone are apparently not enough. I haven't contacted my vet yet, either; she was recommending .5 once a day when he started getting into the blue range, so I don't know what she'd make of all this.

[PS I know I shouldn't be feeding him so much fish--his chicken allergy has made things tough, especially since I haven't been brave enough to try him on turkey either. Previous allergic reactions have been severe and required steroids, so I'm nervous about experimenting--and of course he's a picky-puss about food texture, etc., so he won't touch the rabbit or venison low-carb canned foods I've tried. He's good with the Primal freeze-dried (but not the frozen) but has started getting weird about it and only wanting the pork kind.]
 
Squeakycats said:
Yeah, he totally snubbed an LC he's usually excited about
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LOL, I can just see him.

I still can't see the ss, so can't comment on the dose.

The Allergy issues makes things tricky, I can understand your concern about steroids.

Once a day shots, don't really work for most cats. Most vets probably don't think you will be able to measure less than 0.5u, so that might be why she suggested that.
 
Oh, weird, I wonder what's wrong with the ss. The person I'm supposed to be meeting just wrote and said "Eh, let's just meet in the morning," so I'm off the hook for that--I can just work from home today. So lucky to have a job that's understanding--I don't want to abuse that, but I think I'll stay here and skip the commute and use that time to try to catch up. About to go test...
 
I can imagine him pucking his nose because he wants more gravy.

You''ll have to see how he goes during the day but he may bounce after the low number so he may go a little bit high tonight.

I do suggest you check if the drop is really less than what you were giving at 0.1, when I started dosing less than 0.1 I did noticed that since the pen has it's pressure mechanism the method for just inserting the syringe and releasing it was actually more than a drop and not always the same, so what I started doing was fill the syringe to the 0.1 and then disposing of the drops. I also in a pice of paper marked the 0.1 dose and draw a line after disposing of 1 drop and another line after disposing of 2 drops so that I could lather on compare it and I placed the paper on the fridge so that it was vertical and easier to use for next doses
 
140 on the AlphaTrak, 84 on the Relion--does that count as a bounce, or an expected increase because he's been eating? How often do I keep testing now? Should I let him eat any more? He normally has a nugget of the Primal available for daytime snacking, but I haven't set that out today.

I'm going to go play with syringes. I don't feel confident that my .1 is accurate/consistent--I like the paper idea a lot, but I don't know how I would draw lines that small! I will try, and if that doesn't work, maybe I could do "plunger minus a drop of a certain size"?
 
This isn't really a related question, I guess, so maybe I should put it in the main forum--but I'm noticing that it seems like the Relion meter requires less blood than the AlphaTrak--or at least is less fussy about how well the blood has formed up into a drop. Has that been anyone else's experience? It's making me want to switch to using the Relion as the primary meter. (OK, looked it up--they're both supposed to require the same amount--.3 uL--but it really seems to me like the shape of the Relion test strip is easier to work with.)
 
Oh, interesting--I'm having a hard time picturing how to do that--so you're measuring where the very top part of the plunger (the part that sticks out of the syringe) is? Is that right?

Here comes the hero of the hour, begging for more food...
 
Squeakycats said:
140 on the AlphaTrak, 84 on the Relion--does that count as a bounce, or an expected increase because he's been eating? How often do I keep testing now? Should I let him eat any more? He normally has a nugget of the Primal available for daytime snacking, but I haven't set that out today.

I'm going to go play with syringes. I don't feel confident that my .1 is accurate/consistent--I like the paper idea a lot, but I don't know how I would draw lines that small! I will try, and if that doesn't work, maybe I could do "plunger minus a drop of a certain size"?
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I'll say so far it looks like the normal response to food because you are not even at mid cycle but will have to check, I'll let him eat as he usually does now since he's out the danger zone and maybe test in 1 hour just to be sure how he is doing.

To be honest I used a mechanical pencil and the difference between one dose and the other was about the thick of the line itself
 
Wow! That is precision! I'm going to experiment, and perhaps recruit my husband...surely all that engineering training ought to be applicable here somehow.

Thank you all so much for all of your help this morning! I wonder if I will ever be able to be of use to newbies...I guess if nothing else I can try to be encouraging!
 
025unit-1.jpg


someinsulin-1.jpg


most of us use calipers....
here's a good discussion http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dosing-with-calipers-updated-w-videos.79851/#post-862835
 
Do you use the digital ones? [Oh, never mind...I see people are recommending a particular brand/model]
 
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Squeakycats said:
Oh, interesting--I'm having a hard time picturing how to do that--so you're measuring where the very top part of the plunger (the part that sticks out of the syringe) is? Is that right?

Here comes the hero of the hour, begging for more food...
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Nice to see he's feeling ok

I had this photos hope they help

syringe_web-jpg.26829


syringe-2_web-jpg.26830
 
+5 is 88 (AlphaTrak) and 58 (Relion); I'm letting him have a small LC snack.

Messing around with syringes and the actual insulin pen, it looks to me like the drop I get from pushing the plunger all the way in and released while it's in the pen is smaller than what I was counting as .1. Not sure what to make of that. Ordering calipers.
 
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Squeakycats said:
+5 is 88 (AlphaTrak) and 58 (Relion); I'm letting him have a small LC snack.

Messing around with syringes and the actual insulin pen, it looks to me like the drop I get from pushing the plunger all the way in and released while it's in the pen is smaller than what I was counting as .1. Not sure what to make of that. Ordering calipers.
Click to expand...

As long as it is smaller and you can keep it consistent I think you'll be ok

Do you have any MC (medium carbs ) food ? If you do I'll consider giving it to him instead of the LC since he is going down
 
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So the "Mack, Jack, and Sam" Weruva pouch food is 18%, and the BFF "Tuna and Salmon Sweet Cheeks" is 13%. He will gladly eat either of those.
 
OK, good to know! I don't have any HC food (just MC ones with gravy I can pour out), so I'd better get some of those, as well as maybe more MC options, if I can find any that he can and will eat. Sigh. Pickypuss the Allergy Cat makes life challenging. (My plan if he ever had a true hypo was corn syrup, on its own or mixed with food.) . The food list is such an incredible resource.

I am so grateful I was able to stay home with him today--he's been really clingy, like perhaps he's not feeling well. Or maybe it's just a ploy for more gravy :rolleyes:
 
Squeakycats said:
OK, good to know! I don't have any HC food (just MC ones with gravy I can pour out), so I'd better get some of those, as well as maybe more MC options, if I can find any that he can and will eat. Sigh. Pickypuss the Allergy Cat makes life challenging. (My plan if he ever had a true hypo was corn syrup, on its own or mixed with food.) . The food list is such an incredible resource.

I am so grateful I was able to stay home with him today--he's been really clingy, like perhaps he's not feeling well. Or maybe it's just a ploy for more gravy :rolleyes:
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Probably both (he must be feeling like you just gave him a little lick from the cake frosting and he wants the rest) when they start getting low numbers since they are not used to them they feel a little bit down
 
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