5/5,Chuck,AMPS 531,+2 546,PMPS 292,+2.5 231,+3.75 122,+4 114,+4.5 88,+5 74,+6 61,+7 75,+7.5 83,+8 99

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StephG

StephG

Member Since 2016
Yesterday: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...1-75-197-3-25-134-5-138-7-109-9-5-214.177425/

I was all worried about a low preshot... Pffft. Big bounce.
Question: is it possible to shoot 11 for the bounces and 10.5 on his normal cycles?
Or maybe talk to the vet about adding R insulin for the bounce cycles?
I keep thinking if we can keep him lower during his bounce maybe he'll run out of his bounce reserves...
IDK just thinking out loud... Want to find a way to keep him from bouncing so high after a run in the blues.
 
Teasel's dose is lower than Chuck's but I've seen that once he gets really low (including a lime green or two) he'll stay down fairly well - for Teasel. I put that down to a constant drain on his bounce fuel. As soon as I reduce the dose and he has a bit of breathing room he restocks his bounce fuel supply very fast. It's nice to know this mechanism is working really well but it sure makes dosing a bouncy cat difficult! o_O
 
Seems like Chuck starts his bounce before his next shot... R could possibly help that too but I just don't know. I don't want him in dark greens right away 24/7. I do have a realistic expectation. I would like to keep him in pinks at most though.
DH was thinking if we catch his bounce when it's expected and shoot 11 units instead of 10.5 maybe he won't jump so high. Just from the last week or so it looks like he's getting about 24 hours of "better" numbers then bouncing for about 24 hours...
*Sigh* I think the R would be safer than expecting a bounce shooting higher dose and then the bounce doesn't happen.
 
That was a nice blue surf last cycle. I don't have any advice on the R Wendy and Neko or Karen and Doodles would be able to give help there.
Is there a reason you went with Lantus instead of Levemir? With high doses of Lantus Iv'e heard it stings as Levemir does not.
I'm wondering if it will just take time for Chuck's body to stop bouncing from not being use to being in the lower numbers.
 
I knew I could get lantus at a better price from Canada... I didn't look into levemir much. The shot doesn't seem to hurt him. Doesn't even notice the shot from what I can tell.
I'm sure he's going to bounce for a while till he's use to the lower numbers... I'm just trying to think of ways to keep him a little lower in his bounce.
 
StephG said:
I'm just trying to think of ways to keep him a little lower in his bounce.
Click to expand...
I understand your concern we don't like to watch the bounces. I'm not sure about Chuck but Iv'e seen a lot of kitties here bounce. Strange how some bounce and others don't what a mystery...
Hopefully others will give advice.
 
Chuck is a champion bouncer... He's been bouncing for (almost) 8 months! He's got a sensitive trigger and fast bounce. I've seen him jump 200-300 points in one hour.
 
StephG said:
I've seen him jump 200-300 points in one hour.
Click to expand...
Have you tried to use food to feed the curve.what is meant by using food to manipulate the curve?
simply put, it's a method of feeding used to prevent kitty from dropping too fast and/or too low.
the amount of food usually fed to the cat is broken down into several mini-meals fed throughout the course of the day with the intention of flattening out the curve. lc is normally fed to all numbers except possibly in the case of a significant or fast drop or fed to a drop below 50.

the only time you might want to feed a little higher carb food at shot time is to bump the numbers up so the insulin is starting from a higher number when onset occurs if you're running out the door and will be unable to monitor.

if you're around to monitor, there's no reason to bump the numbers up at shot time. the beauty of lantus and levemir is being able to shoot low to stay low. shooting low is how you obtain the low flat curve with lantus and levemir.

whether you'd want to feed lc, mc, or hc to slow a drop depends on two things:
1. the carb sensitivity or lack of of your particular cat.
2. the point you're at in the cycle. a drop early in the cycle *may* require big guns. a drop at nadir (unless nadir is less than 40) or late in the cycle usually only requires lc to bump the numbers up. however, if you have a carb sensitive kitty, you may not have to use anything except lc to bump up the numbers. "KNOW THY CAT".

why would you want to manipulate the curve with food?
--- bouncers: kitties who drop low and then bounce to the moon benefit from food manipulation. using food to manipulate the curve will tend to flatten out the curve. flattening out the curve helps to prevent huge bounces.
--- carb sensitive kitties: kitties who experience large food spikes when consuming even lc benefit from manipulating the curve with food. strategically spacing out meal times will help flatten out the curve.

why do i want to use food to flatten out the curve ?
--- flattening out the curve allows you to get as much insulin into the cat as safely possible without having kitty bottom out on you.
--- flattening out the curve *usually* allows you to hang onto a dose longer
--- flattening out the curve allows you to shoot higher doses of insulin than you would have been able to otherwise.

why would i want to get as much insulin as possible into the cat?
lantus and levemir are known to have a harder time bringing down higher numbers. more insulin helps bring down the higher numbers in a bouncer's cycle. more insulin will help counteract the spikes in a food spiker. using food to manipulate the curve will flatten out the curve and help keep your kitty safe.
 
I've had to feed the curve a few times when he was on prozinc. We have only been on lantus for a month.
His last two cycles were pretty flat minus the +2 on am cycle and +7 on pm cycle. And he still bounced.
I've always believed Chuck was carb sensitive. I did read the post about it almost being "fad" like these days. But Chuck use to go up from just plain baked chicken. I steered him with .5oz (it might be 1oz can't remember exact amount) LC food on his last green cycle and that was enough to get him to surf. I rather not test it with a number under 50!
He gets snacks at +3 and +6 which is kinda like feeding the curve since it's at his usual time the insulin starts acting and what should be nadir. Or it seemed to be on a lower dose.
Chuck Norris makes his own rules!:joyful: haha but really I'm starting to think this is true.
 
StephG said:
I've had to feed the curve a few times when he was on prozinc. We have only been on lantus for a month.
His last two cycles were pretty flat minus the +2 on am cycle and +7 on pm cycle. And he still bounced.
I've always believed Chuck was carb sensitive. I did read the post about it almost being "fad" like these days. But Chuck use to go up from just plain baked chicken. I steered him with .5oz (it might be 1oz can't remember exact amount) LC food on his last green cycle and that was enough to get him to surf. I rather not test it with a number under 50!
He gets snacks at +3 and +6 which is kinda like feeding the curve since it's at his usual time the insulin starts acting and what should be nadir. Or it seemed to be on a lower dose.
Chuck Norris makes his own rules!:joyful: haha but really I'm starting to think this is true.
Click to expand...
Teasel and Chuck both make their own rules, Steph! I've seen you do masterful curve steering with food when he was on ProZinc. You know him inside out.
 
I told DH the thing about holding a dose for 6 cycles after greens... This morning was #6 so he gave him 11 units for his PM shot. :eek:
Guess it will be ok. Should I continue with 11 units or go back to 10.5 for his am shot? Probably need to wait to see how he does on the 11 units... Looks like it will be an active cycle.
 
As disheartening as his AMPS was, he came down nicely today. :) I see you shot 11 units tonight. Was that intended as an ongoing increase? Oops, just read your post. I think the increase was OK.

Due to the nature of the depot, with the dosing methods we use here, we find it's easier to keep shooting the same dose. Sometimes that increase impacts a later cycle, not the one you shot the increased dose.

As for R, yes it can be used to dampen down the height of bounces if done right. You only want to reduce the numbers by 100 points or less, or you risk triggering another bounce. You also have to be aware that some cats see more R action the second cycle instead of the first. Cats with IAA can also be a bit more unpredictable. If you want to try R, let us know. We try to set you up with an experienced R person the first few times you shoot it.
 
Ok. So depending on his numbers tonight do you think I should continue the 11 units or go back to the 10.5 for a few more cycles?
I am very interested in R. Didn't think much about causing another bounce. If R brings it down 100 points then his lantus brings it down another 100-200 points (when he's bouncing) will that cause a bounce together?
I'm not in a hurry to try it yet. Going on vacation and then maybe I'll put a call into the vet and see if she agrees to prescribe it. I won't try it without guidance here.
 
I am happy with his results on 10.5 when he's not bouncing! I'm CS when it comes to getting him down into lower greens. I'm not against it but I freak out when I see them. But the bounce after his greens were pink instead of black and red! So maybe it's best to get him into dark greens before he bounces!?
 
I don't think you need a prescription for R, but getting your vet's buy in is a good idea. The worry with R is you want to avoid fast drops. You don't want the insulins to nadir at the same time. If you use R, you want to have a good idea of what the Lantus onset, nadir and duration are, then lay the R action on top.

I would stick with 11.0 since you increased, unless he tells you otherwise. A little more juice can help dampen the bounces.
 
Ok sticking with 11 units unless he earns the reduction! I didn't know you could get R without a prescription!
 
+5 74 holding off on food. I'll check in 30 to see if he's holding his own.
ETA: I gave him .25 oz FF because it's only +5.
 
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Ugh, I gave him that .25 oz FF pate then he got his +6 snack. I forgot about the scheduled snack! Guess he probably won't be dropping anymore. Either surf or rise... So total of .75 oz FF pate at +6
 
I'm not doing this again tomorrow morning... Unless he's high from a bounce I think I'm going to shoot 10.5 units... Even then I might see where 10.5 gets him.
Tomorrow PM cycle we won't be home to monitor. I'm going to see if the pet sitter will come test him for us at +3 or +4.
 
+6.5 60:confused::eek: How the heck?! Apparently Chuck may not be as carb sensitive as I thought! I gave him another .25oz FF. He's absolutely LOVING the snacks. Even begs when I walk through the dining room! Piggy.
 
HAHA I'm an idiot. I'm giving him FF salmon something-- both flavors of salmon are only listed as 1% carbs. :facepalm:
 
+8 99 3 rising numbers so I'm off to bed! Dh taking over and taking care of Am shot. I've told him to give 10.5 units. Maybe the next increase will be 10.75 units?
These were wonderful numbers but it was a PITA to keep him up. Of course next time I'll use food that is more than 1% carbs.
 
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